Author Topic: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?  (Read 24949 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2014, 05:28:14 PM »

Offline aingeforthree

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2013
  • Tommy Points: 134
Obviously the Rondo deal stunk as it symbolized the end of trying to pull a Ray-KG and immediately contending for a title.

However it seems like some posters' unhappiness with Ainge is wearing off. There seems to be less of a blame game being played and more disappointment directed at the reality of the situation (Rondo was going to leave, Ainge couldn't find another star to pair him with, etc.).

Has your perspective on the Rondo trade changed? Have you warmed up to the return? Are you confident in Danny's ability to consolidate assets like the large TPE we received with our stash of 1sts and 2nds for exciting talent? What's your thoughts on this team, i.e. are we going somewhere, or just floating in the wind?

Great questions.

I hated the trade when it was first announced but I am slowly accommodating myself to it.

The primary reason to hate the trade is undoubtably because of a certain segment of the anti-Rondo crowd on this forum.  Their smugness and lack of civility has me convinced that any side they are on is the wrong one.

More to the point, I think it was a conservative move by Ainge.  Clearly, he had doubts about retaining Rondo long-term.  To me, this acknowledges that Ainge didn't believe he could attract (through FA or trades) star players to play beside Rondo and that our current young players weren't going to develop into star players to play beside Rondo. 

As long as Rondo was here one could believe that our 2007 moment was around the corner and we could instantly be transformed into a contender.  However, now it seems that we have returned to the 2003 moment (literally trading an all-star to Dallas again).  The teams during Ainge's early years were not always fun, good or watchable.  Furthermore, there was a lost in the wilderness quality to those years as it hardly seemed there was "a plan" (because there wasn't).  Ainge of course redeemed those god awful teams in 2007.  However, I loathe to go through it again.

Or clearly, Ainge wasn't about to give this type of player the max, & rightfully so.

Get something now for him, before you get nothing.

Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2014, 05:42:01 PM »

Offline TheFlex

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2791
  • Tommy Points: 367
Obviously the Rondo deal stunk as it symbolized the end of trying to pull a Ray-KG and immediately contending for a title.

However it seems like some posters' unhappiness with Ainge is wearing off. There seems to be less of a blame game being played and more disappointment directed at the reality of the situation (Rondo was going to leave, Ainge couldn't find another star to pair him with, etc.).

Has your perspective on the Rondo trade changed? Have you warmed up to the return? Are you confident in Danny's ability to consolidate assets like the large TPE we received with our stash of 1sts and 2nds for exciting talent? What's your thoughts on this team, i.e. are we going somewhere, or just floating in the wind?

Great questions.

I hated the trade when it was first announced but I am slowly accommodating myself to it.

The primary reason to hate the trade is undoubtably because of a certain segment of the anti-Rondo crowd on this forum.  Their smugness and lack of civility has me convinced that any side they are on is the wrong one.

More to the point, I think it was a conservative move by Ainge.  Clearly, he had doubts about retaining Rondo long-term.  To me, this acknowledges that Ainge didn't believe he could attract (through FA or trades) star players to play beside Rondo and that our current young players weren't going to develop into star players to play beside Rondo. 

As long as Rondo was here one could believe that our 2007 moment was around the corner and we could instantly be transformed into a contender.  However, now it seems that we have returned to the 2003 moment (literally trading an all-star to Dallas again).  The teams during Ainge's early years were not always fun, good or watchable.  Furthermore, there was a lost in the wilderness quality to those years as it hardly seemed there was "a plan" (because there wasn't).  Ainge of course redeemed those god awful teams in 2007.  However, I loathe to go through it again.

Thanks. One thing that could really fast-forward Ainge's plan a few years: Marcus Smart becoming a star (along with positive development from other players such as Sullynyk and James Young).


Draft: 8 first rounders in next 5 years.

Cap space: $24 mil.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dkcleague/

Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2014, 05:44:52 PM »

Offline TheFlex

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2791
  • Tommy Points: 367
I'll reserve judgment on Ainge's performance this year until we see what happens with Green, Bass, Wright and the other players he is probably trying to move as we speak. Green in particular is intriguing as there are fewer good SFs than good PGs right now, and there are several contenders looking for help on the wings.

Just randomly thought of this, but would Phoenix consider Green for IT straight up? Would the Cs have any interest in doing this?

What's there to be unhappy about ? The guy isn't even a top 10 point guard in the league anymore and is getting the max. You had to trade him in order to avoid getting nothing.

The parts are great. Specifically adding another pick in a loaded 16' draft, Wright, & Crowder. Wright is a solid 5 man to throw into the rotation, & Crowder is a prototypical glue guy who immediately is one of the best defenders on the team.

With cap space, youth, & picks galore, sky is the limit.  Ainge has the ability to rebuild this thing into a playoff monster.

No argument from me. It was a fair deal and you can't rip everyone off, particularly when you're trading an asset with sunken value.


Draft: 8 first rounders in next 5 years.

Cap space: $24 mil.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dkcleague/

Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2014, 05:52:12 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12749
  • Tommy Points: 1544
Nope, perspective still the same, Ainge got hosed.

He would have been better off to either let Rondo walk or work out a similar deal this summer in a sign-and-trade. Ainge panicked and paid the price.

But as angry as I am about it, I'm over it. At least I don't have to listen to anymore Rondo-bashing, oh wait...yeah somewhere LarBrd33 and his troop of trolls are out there ready to go to battle.

Hopefully in another twenty years or so I'll still be alive to see another title.

Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2014, 05:54:56 PM »

Offline TheFlex

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2791
  • Tommy Points: 367
Nope, perspective still the same, Ainge got hosed.

He would have been better off to either let Rondo walk or work out a similar deal this summer in a sign-and-trade. Ainge panicked and paid the price.

But as angry as I am about it, I'm over it. At least I don't have to listen to anymore Rondo-bashing, oh wait...yeah somewhere LarBrd33 and his troop of trolls are out there ready to go to battle.

Hopefully in another twenty years or so I'll still be alive to see another title.



Good luck trying to net the assets Ainge acquired now in a summertime S&T.


Draft: 8 first rounders in next 5 years.

Cap space: $24 mil.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dkcleague/

Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2014, 06:03:42 PM »

Offline droopdog7

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6970
  • Tommy Points: 466
Nope, perspective still the same, Ainge got hosed.

He would have been better off to either let Rondo walk or work out a similar deal this summer in a sign-and-trade. Ainge panicked and paid the price.

But as angry as I am about it, I'm over it. At least I don't have to listen to anymore Rondo-bashing, oh wait...yeah somewhere LarBrd33 and his troop of trolls are out there ready to go to battle.

Hopefully in another twenty years or so I'll still be alive to see another title.
Really, the only legitimate argument that can be made to that Danny should have just let rondo walk.  What would the point have been to sign and trade rondo in the summer rather than now?  And no, rondo is nowhere near a max player; so forget about that one. 

So did we get negative value?  That is, would it have been better to just let rondo wallk?  I don't think so.  Still got something, which i think in this case is better than nothing.

Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2014, 06:13:08 PM »

Offline Meadowlark_Scal

  • NCE
  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8193
  • Tommy Points: 670
  • You say when......
Well, we traded rondo and powell for nelson and two other guys.....powell is a good example of the Celtics draft pick history.....played 5 minutes, then traded.......as if we could not learn by SA popovich' style.....PLAY the guys for a few months....see how they can develop....if you quit on the guy, you prove your drafting picks SUCK...WHO does the draft study.....some part timer....?

 So a good game against a bad team......Miami will show us more....the main problem I have with smart is..Rondo was a ball handler day 1......an essential PG skill....Smart isn't a ball handler yet.......he is easily picked or stopped on the dribble.......people say rondo had little offers, if that is so, in free agency, the same no one would have wanted him so we keep him for less money....

Nice to see KO and green go at it last game......did KO just get his FIRST pay check..? You mean he stopped being a lazy 3 point launcher who never followed his shot at 7 feet tall. How long will this new attitude last...? it IS good to see, but he didn't just learn how to play like this over night....what was he waiting for..? I hope it stays but......

Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2014, 06:14:02 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7739
  • Tommy Points: 804
No. I am over it though. Time to move on with the guys we have, can't change it now!
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2014, 06:14:47 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

  • NCE
  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15402
  • Tommy Points: 2785
Nope...the needle has barely budged.

Still think Cuban pulled off an Auerbachian Heist on Danny.

Ask me again next year.

Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2014, 06:16:20 PM »

Offline Rakulp

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 533
  • Tommy Points: 78
For those who have replied yes, in the reality of waiting to see how the new players work in our system, or what subsequent trades are made down the road...glad to hear it! 

Yes, it was a major stomach shot especially when we feel he was worth far more than we got...but the reality is, that wasn't the deal offered and Ainge has to look out for what is best in the long term for the Celtics.

Could we have gotten a better deal nearer the deadline?  Possibly.

Could Rondo have injured himself again, dropping his value more?  Possibly.

Now was the time to make the move, one that will give us more assets for the future, greater flexibility to make additional changes this year, and to also move Rondo to a team where he has the chance to help them move closer to a championship if he plays the type of ball we know he can.

...for those of you who still say "No"...time heals all wounds, it'll heal this one for you eventually.

Rak

Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #40 on: December 20, 2014, 06:32:49 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58554
  • Tommy Points: -25636
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
Nope, it's still a garbage deal.

Did you:

a) think a better deal was available?
b) think a better deal would have been available and Danny should have waited until the deadline?
or c) think Danny should have taken his chances this summer with Rondo?

I doubt a better deal was on the table right now, but I would have waited until at least the deadline.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #41 on: December 20, 2014, 06:43:37 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21238
  • Tommy Points: 2016
Nope, it's still a garbage deal.

Did you:

a) think a better deal was available?
b) think a better deal would have been available and Danny should have waited until the deadline?
or c) think Danny should have taken his chances this summer with Rondo?

I doubt a better deal was on the table right now, but I would have waited until at least the deadline.
I think at the deadline the offers would have been even worse, honestly. 

And I like the idea of getting some players and re-trading them at the deadline.  We will not be able to accurately judge our haul for a while. 

Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #42 on: December 20, 2014, 06:52:34 PM »

Offline Rosco917

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6108
  • Tommy Points: 559
Rondo was worth what he was worth. Its that simple. If DA could have gotten more he certainly would have. If Rondo played better this year he would have been worth more, but he didn't. Danny had nothing to do with that. You have to be realistic.

If you think his flaws aren't noted by GM's in the league, think again. If you think they ignored his shooting percentage, if you think they didn't look at his free throw percentage, the league knows he mailed in his defense so much of the time. They watch film too.

They also know Rondo is a hard nosed, great passing, talented ball hander, that needs to understand he's just a single piece on a good team and nothing more. He's very much a player that needs the proper fit. I'll miss screaming "what a pass" as much as anyone.

I've had no preconceived notions of his worth, anyone could see he just wasn't that prized by the league.

All things considered, we did pretty good. Brendan Wright will help us, we need this type of player bad.
Will these new players turn us into a contender? no
 


Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #43 on: December 20, 2014, 07:03:44 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58554
  • Tommy Points: -25636
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
Nope, it's still a garbage deal.

Did you:

a) think a better deal was available?
b) think a better deal would have been available and Danny should have waited until the deadline?
or c) think Danny should have taken his chances this summer with Rondo?

I doubt a better deal was on the table right now, but I would have waited until at least the deadline.
I think at the deadline the offers would have been even worse, honestly. 

And I like the idea of getting some players and re-trading them at the deadline.  We will not be able to accurately judge our haul for a while.

How much lower could the return package have gone?  I think the same return would have been there, or we may have done better depending upon the desperation level of contenders.

As for re-trading, what's Brandan Wright going to yield us?  A trade exception and a future #2?  That doesn't move the needle for me.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Has your perspective changed a few days after the deal?
« Reply #44 on: December 20, 2014, 07:20:50 PM »

Offline inverselock

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 437
  • Tommy Points: 44
Rondo expiring contract.  Declining after ACL injury.  Can't, won't shoot.  Solid starter.   Not much trade value.

Rondo will look good next to better players in Ellis, Parsons, Dirk.  He'll get his stats.  Dallas won't win a thing.