Author Topic: We actually look better  (Read 50513 times)

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Re: We actually look better
« Reply #105 on: December 20, 2014, 03:17:11 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Bottom line is we won tonight.   That's all i'm happy about

Yep, we won some games after Larry, McHale and Chief's era too, huh?

Because that era is where I fear we're headed.

I'm guessing you are too young to remember the Lean Years? (See early 90's - early 2000's).

Strap yourselves in, boys and girls.

I didn't start watching the Cs until the early 2000s, but I think it's quite clear that a lot of bad luck went into that. Obviously the deaths of Len Bias and Reggie Lewis come to mind. The rapid deterioration of Larry Bird also cannot be ignored. Then ultimately the Cs suffered from bad management. Say what you want about Ainge and Stevens, but the former has proven himself as a championship-caliber GM while the latter has demonstrated an ability to develop assets and act in accordance with our well-respected front office.

I don't see the Celtics' current state of affairs as being comparable to the '90s Celtics. If anything I see it as being comparable to post-Antoine Boston. While we don't have a Paul Pierce yet, we have the ability to make a KG-like acquisition now in just year 2 of Ainge's second rebuild. If Ainge hits on merely one of his six first rounders and 10 total picks over the next two years, our future is looking really good.

But, here's my rub:

Brad Stevens and Danny Ainge get a paid a LOT of money....one of them coaches, the other manages the team...gets us players...evaluates talent.

Why couldn't they make Rondo fit..work...with this team?

Why - despite the gloss campaign from ESPN - did we have to trade Rondo for seemingly so little?

It just doesn't make sense, no matter how much spin we put on it.

Re: We actually look better
« Reply #106 on: December 20, 2014, 03:17:33 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Bottom line is we won tonight.   That's all i'm happy about

Yep, we won some games after Larry, McHale and Chief's era too, huh?

Because that era is where I fear we're headed.

I'm guessing you are too young to remember the Lean Years? (See early 90's - early 2000's).

Strap yourselves in, boys and girls.

go have a beer and be happy we won tonight.   Get out of the black hole your in



Re: We actually look better
« Reply #107 on: December 20, 2014, 03:19:09 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Once we trade Jeff, pencil us in for the NBA finals, Summer 2015, Baby.

If we look "this" good by trading Rondo, wait until they get a load of us sans Jeff.
I'm not sure how the team will react to losing Jeff, because he's actually been one of our most consistent scorers...

But Rondo's strengths were wasted on this team.  We have a handful of guys who can adequately share the ball amongst each other.  The offense will be better without Rondo out there, because the team can now play 5-on-5 instead of 4-on-5.  It's more fluid and less predictable... basically the same reason we played better without Rondo over the past 3 seasons and the same reason the Mavericks will need to adjust if they want to continue Rondo's gaudy assist numbers.

We also picked up some mediocre role players who can provide some bench help.  I think we have a better chance of making the playoffs now.  I know he was fun to watch and seems unfathomable that we are better now, but there is evidence to support the idea that Black White Chocolate wasn't a style fit here.

Re: We actually look better
« Reply #108 on: December 20, 2014, 03:20:27 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Bottom line is we won tonight.   That's all i'm happy about

Yep, we won some games after Larry, McHale and Chief's era too, huh?

Because that era is where I fear we're headed.

I'm guessing you are too young to remember the Lean Years? (See early 90's - early 2000's).

Strap yourselves in, boys and girls.

I didn't start watching the Cs until the early 2000s, but I think it's quite clear that a lot of bad luck went into that. Obviously the deaths of Len Bias and Reggie Lewis come to mind. The rapid deterioration of Larry Bird also cannot be ignored. Then ultimately the Cs suffered from bad management. Say what you want about Ainge and Stevens, but the former has proven himself as a championship-caliber GM while the latter has demonstrated an ability to develop assets and act in accordance with our well-respected front office.

I don't see the Celtics' current state of affairs as being comparable to the '90s Celtics. If anything I see it as being comparable to post-Antoine Boston. While we don't have a Paul Pierce yet, we have the ability to make a KG-like acquisition now in just year 2 of Ainge's second rebuild. If Ainge hits on merely one of his six first rounders and 10 total picks over the next two years, our future is looking really good.

It's all intertwined, my friend.  Couple their deaths with having KC Jones as a coach, and it was a recipe for disaster.  They really never had a bench consistently, which is why I thought it was funny that when Bird went to Indiana, that team had the best bench in the league, lol. ;D  I honestly feel like the biggest mismatch between the Celtics and Lakers in the 80s wasn't even on the court, so to speak - it was in the front office and on the sidelines.  Naturally, I have no idea how the salary cap worked back then, but I wonder if we had been able to get Walton a year earlier, could we have 3-peated, at least?  I say that we definitely could have won back to back titles, and add Bias in 86-87 and Lewis in 87-88, and we might have been able to win 5 in a row, and that's Russell territory we're talking about here.  Wow. :o Sigh.

Re: We actually look better
« Reply #109 on: December 20, 2014, 03:27:40 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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It's sad to see so much hate poured on Rondo.......

Of course.

This blog will have a fit now that he's gone.

Wait until Jeff Green is traded....then this blog will implode upon itself, like a Green Black Hole.



We just won't have anyone to hate anymore.

Would you actually be upset if Green was traded, or are you speaking on behalf of the blog?  Personally, I won't care in the least if he's dealt.  I don't have anything against the guy as a person or whatever, it's just that he's been nothing but a tease since he came here.  He'd thrive in Memphis, though.  Green for Prince and a first round pick.  Now where do I sign, lol? ;D

Re: We actually look better
« Reply #110 on: December 20, 2014, 03:31:02 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Once we trade Jeff, pencil us in for the NBA finals, Summer 2015, Baby.

If we look "this" good by trading Rondo, wait until they get a load of us sans Jeff.
I'm not sure how the team will react to losing Jeff, because he's actually been one of our most consistent scorers...

But Rondo's strengths were wasted on this team.  We have a handful of guys who can adequately share the ball amongst each other.  The offense will be better without Rondo out there, because the team can now play 5-on-5 instead of 4-on-5.  It's more fluid and less predictable... basically the same reason we played better without Rondo over the past 3 seasons and the same reason the Mavericks will need to adjust if they want to continue Rondo's gaudy assist numbers.

We also picked up some mediocre role players who can provide some bench help.  I think we have a better chance of making the playoffs now.  I know he was fun to watch and seems unfathomable that we are better now, but there is evidence to support the idea that Black White Chocolate wasn't a style fit here.

I understand that, LarBrd.

But you don't let other teams do "AUERBACHIAN" trades on BOSTON - we do that to other teams, or at least we used to.

Mark Cuban put Danny in a Suplex, here...a Full Nelson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i8w1lKYpTg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX5VL8k3g5Y

You don't get paid Millions of Dollars as a Coach and GM of The Boston Celtics and Trade away Rajon Rondo for Pennies on The Dollar - just unfathomable.

Re: We actually look better
« Reply #111 on: December 20, 2014, 03:41:53 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Bottom line is we won tonight.   That's all i'm happy about

Yep, we won some games after Larry, McHale and Chief's era too, huh?

Because that era is where I fear we're headed.

I'm guessing you are too young to remember the Lean Years? (See early 90's - early 2000's).

Strap yourselves in, boys and girls.

go have a beer and be happy we won tonight.   Get out of the black hole your in

Oh I'm always happy for a BOS win.

I'll ALWAYS bleed Green.

I was very happy for ANY wins we got in the 90s, too, lacking much Star Power.

You know, when I wore my Celtics T-Shirt on my 1st Navy ship I was on (early 90's), I got HOWLS of laughter from my shipmates back then?

I can hear the laughter coming back again, soon. ;D

"Man, why do you like BOSTON....they ain't got no body"..........

Re: We actually look better
« Reply #112 on: December 20, 2014, 03:44:30 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Not what I said...



I was answering your question regarding Doc Rivers (laced with saracasm obviously.)

Ah, my bad  ;D

From your posts, that's been the only logical conclusion, quite honestly.  I just don't understand why people were so willing to trade a guy like Rondo for, wait, what did we get for him again?  Oh right - nothing.  Unbelievable.
You mean the guy that couldn't average 10 ppg on a team where the top scorer is Jeff Green? What did you think he was worth, again?

They're living in the past. Too caught up in Rondo's performances from 2012 and older to pay any attention to his actual impact, or lack thereof, on the game now.

Beat LA, you constantly harp on the return being "nothing", but isn't that actually an indictment on Rondo? Ainge scoured the league and the "nothing" package you moan about is the absolute best he could get back. That says much more about Rondo's current status as a player, then it does about Ainge as a GM. If only Rondo were regarded as a better player, say a top 30 guy like you often claim, then surely the return would've been better. Would it not?

Nope.  I'm sorry, but this is all about Ainge to me, because for those of you who believe that Danny is such a great gm and that he was responsible for extending the window of the then-Big Three, the guy that you should be praising for our extended run is Rondo.  Say what you will for the guy, but if he hadn't grown into the player that he is today (and yes, I can hear all of you saying, "what, you mean a grossly overrated role player?"), we would not have achieved anywhere near the success that we did even as the Big Three aged.  It was Rondo who still made them look like world beaters.  It was Rondo who made their jobs so much easier when they could no longer consistently create their own offense, and it was Rondo who became our most indispensable player once Garnett got injured.  Ainge had plenty of chances to rebuild and retool on the fly, and he failed at each and every opportunity to give us a much better transition from one era to the next without all of this mess.  It never should have come to this.  Do you think that Ainge would have been able to get what he did (which I will always hate as a transaction just as much as this most recent one.  I don't care how many picks he got for them - those guys are legends, for which you never get equal value.  I'd feel perhaps somewhat better about those draft choices if Ainge could actually select good players, but he only serves to compound his mistake in this regard, imo.) for KG and Pierce if they had been playing with Deron Williams?  Right.  Do you think that Avery Bradley would have gotten anywhere near that turd of a contract had he not played with Rondo?  Right.

I know that Rondo might not have had the best defense this year, but Bradley hasn't been a shining star, either, and I think that a lot of that has to do with the fact that Garnett is no longer quarterbacking our defense.  KG made a 36 year old Ray Allen with bone spurs still look like a competent defensive player, for crying out loud, and that's really the point of all of this - those guys not only fit so well together, but they also made each other better players.  Danny had his chances, and he blew it.  Year after year after year.  The transition should have been a lot smoother, imo.

Whose front office traded for the necessary pick to select Rajon Rondo in the early 20s? Danny Ainge's.

So long as we're using hindsight, Danny Ainge offered the best package for Chris Paul only to be rejected and had David West slip through his fingers. As someone's sig around here says, imagine if the stars had aligned...

I'm not using hindsight at all, and yes, I do give Ainge credit for taking Rondo - provided that he was the one who actually wanted him.  Wasn't that pick originally from the Lakers in the Gary Payton deal, and then we traded it to Atlanta when we reacquired Antoine, who then shipped it to Phoenix in a sign and trade for Joe Johnson, or am I confusing this with something else.  Lol, my head hurts. ;D

I find it hard to believe they would actually trade for the pick just to select him if Ainge didn't want him. Ainge reportedly is one of Rondo's biggest fans in the front office.

I understand, but there have been times when he said that he wanted to take other players, which leads me to believe that he was overruled in the war room or whatever, which is rather odd because it's ultimately HIS responsibility to make the selections.  For example, in 2005, he said that he wanted to take Monta Ellis, and in 2011, he said that he wanted to take Jimmy Butler (or that was conveyed through Doc, iirc.  It's late, lol. ;D), so that's my point.

Re: We actually look better
« Reply #113 on: December 20, 2014, 04:40:01 AM »

Offline clover

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Bottom line is we won tonight.   That's all i'm happy about

Yep, we won some games after Larry, McHale and Chief's era too, huh?

Because that era is where I fear we're headed.

I'm guessing you are too young to remember the Lean Years? (See early 90's - early 2000's).

Strap yourselves in, boys and girls.

I didn't start watching the Cs until the early 2000s, but I think it's quite clear that a lot of bad luck went into that. Obviously the deaths of Len Bias and Reggie Lewis come to mind. The rapid deterioration of Larry Bird also cannot be ignored. Then ultimately the Cs suffered from bad management. Say what you want about Ainge and Stevens, but the former has proven himself as a championship-caliber GM while the latter has demonstrated an ability to develop assets and act in accordance with our well-respected front office.

I don't see the Celtics' current state of affairs as being comparable to the '90s Celtics. If anything I see it as being comparable to post-Antoine Boston. While we don't have a Paul Pierce yet, we have the ability to make a KG-like acquisition now in just year 2 of Ainge's second rebuild. If Ainge hits on merely one of his six first rounders and 10 total picks over the next two years, our future is looking really good.

But, here's my rub:

Brad Stevens and Danny Ainge get a paid a LOT of money....one of them coaches, the other manages the team...gets us players...evaluates talent.

Why couldn't they make Rondo fit..work...with this team?

Why - despite the gloss campaign from ESPN - did we have to trade Rondo for seemingly so little?

It just doesn't make sense, no matter how much spin we put on it.

1) Rondo's overall play has deteriorated for years.
2) Rondo's self-admittedly one of the most stubborn players in the game.
3) Rondo wanted to go to an immediate contender through FA, so it made sense that the C's would trade him.
4) As an expiring contract with some growing warts to his game, only a few teams had the need and ability to interest him in an extension and acquire him mid-season, and they weren't going to give away the store for him.

It makes all kinds of sense and outside of the C's fan bubble, most observers around the league saw it coming all along.

Re: We actually look better
« Reply #114 on: December 20, 2014, 04:46:45 AM »

Offline clover

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Could we possibly just leave Nelson in Florida, lol? ;D  He just doesn't fit on this team.

In a league with so many injuries, I think there's at least a reasonable chance that he can be sold to some other team who needs a spare PG sometime over the next two months. If not, he, like Wallace, is at least a reportedly good veteran influence for a young team.

Re: We actually look better
« Reply #115 on: December 20, 2014, 06:42:02 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Bottom line is we won tonight.   That's all i'm happy about

Yep, we won some games after Larry, McHale and Chief's era too, huh?

Because that era is where I fear we're headed.

I'm guessing you are too young to remember the Lean Years? (See early 90's - early 2000's).

Strap yourselves in, boys and girls.

I didn't start watching the Cs until the early 2000s, but I think it's quite clear that a lot of bad luck went into that. Obviously the deaths of Len Bias and Reggie Lewis come to mind. The rapid deterioration of Larry Bird also cannot be ignored. Then ultimately the Cs suffered from bad management. Say what you want about Ainge and Stevens, but the former has proven himself as a championship-caliber GM while the latter has demonstrated an ability to develop assets and act in accordance with our well-respected front office.

I don't see the Celtics' current state of affairs as being comparable to the '90s Celtics. If anything I see it as being comparable to post-Antoine Boston. While we don't have a Paul Pierce yet, we have the ability to make a KG-like acquisition now in just year 2 of Ainge's second rebuild. If Ainge hits on merely one of his six first rounders and 10 total picks over the next two years, our future is looking really good.

But, here's my rub:

Brad Stevens and Danny Ainge get a paid a LOT of money....one of them coaches, the other manages the team...gets us players...evaluates talent.

Why couldn't they make Rondo fit..work...with this team?

Why - despite the gloss campaign from ESPN - did we have to trade Rondo for seemingly so little?

It just doesn't make sense, no matter how much spin we put on it.

1) Rondo's overall play has deteriorated for years.
2) Rondo's self-admittedly one of the most stubborn players in the game.
3) Rondo wanted to go to an immediate contender through FA, so it made sense that the C's would trade him.
4) As an expiring contract with some growing warts to his game, only a few teams had the need and ability to interest him in an extension and acquire him mid-season, and they weren't going to give away the store for him.

It makes all kinds of sense and outside of the C's fan bubble, most observers around the league saw it coming all along.

No. 1 - Rajon Rondo has been INJURED for the last couple of years, so this statement is unfair and a bit of a falsehood.

No. 2 - Stubborn? So is CP3, Westbrook, Kobe, so...........

No. 3 - Rondo "wanted"? This sounds SO PAUL PIERCE Circa 06-07...PP34 back then stated that he either "wanted" to be traded or have Danny bring in the talent to help him win. Danny did it, and was PATIENT - something that was seemingly missing this time around.

And the KLove Sweepstakes? Sure, we missed that bus, but that is a sorry excuse to trade Rondo for pennies. We could've waited until Summer 2015 and hoped/expected that we could either sign someone or makes some mid-level trades to make us better.

No. 4 - TBH, I get so tired of hearing about "Rondo's warts".

CP3 is perhaps the most talented PG of our time, and even HE is getting questioned by none other than Isiah Thomas AND Shaq on NBA TV - they are saying that the excuses for him are wearing thin.

Finally, I don't give too much credence to those outside the C's fan bubble. This same group didn't say a word when BOS was languishing in the early 90's, 2000's....there also wasn't much sympathy "Outside The C's Fan Bubble" when we lost Bias and Lewis to those tragedies.

Those "Outside The C's Fan bubble" made NO mention of KG's hobbling in Game 7 of the 2009-10 finals VS The Lakers...still trying to get over his injury from 08-09.....instead? Kobe Bryant is a HERO for shooting like 30% in "helping to close out the Celtics."

LOL.

Since I've been a C's fan, all I know is that there are not too many "Outside The C's Fanbubble" that care about BOS and WANT to see us win any more Banners.

"They've won too many".
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 06:48:17 AM by GreenFaith1819 »

Re: We actually look better
« Reply #116 on: December 20, 2014, 07:32:37 AM »

Offline Eja117

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We are a better team without Rondo.

Thank you, Danny.
Any other teams that are better without their best (by far) player?

Sullinger is our best player.

Rondo hasn't been any good since he hurt his knee.
I see you haven't really watched them play

Re: We actually look better
« Reply #117 on: December 20, 2014, 07:32:49 AM »

Offline YoungOne87

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bass needs to go now, so we have a rotation of:

PF: Sully, Olynyk
C:  Zeller, Wright

and whoever has the better day gets more minutes

Re: We actually look better
« Reply #118 on: December 20, 2014, 07:48:46 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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No lazy defense.

No pounding the rock.

No bad attitudes.

No slowing down the pace.

Uptempo, here we come.

The pounding the ball argument is ridiculous and overstated, and Smart got a technical, so it's not all sunshine and rainbows, lol. ;D

Smart's 20 yrs old. It will be ok. Let the kid develop, than run your mouth.

I'm not saying that Smart is crap.  I like him a lot, but he's not even remotely close to Rondo, imo.

Funny you say that, because just yesterday on Felger and Maz, Maxwell was saying how he thinks Smart is better than Rondo right now because Smart plays both sides of the ball. Again, this is today, not 2012.

Re: We actually look better
« Reply #119 on: December 20, 2014, 07:51:31 AM »

Offline 2short

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that is one way to look at it
the other is man minny sucks, they have holes all over that roster, since kg's time besides the luck of love as a pick they are a mis managed group