Author Topic: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk  (Read 12594 times)

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Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #75 on: December 19, 2014, 06:09:48 PM »

Offline wiley

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I didn't read the article sorry.  But this was not a risky move by the Mavs.
They had a great offense but zero chance at a title.  This move slightly improves
their chances if Rondo stays healthy (the only risky aspect being Rondo's health).
But they'll need a healthy big or two to replace Wright.

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #76 on: December 19, 2014, 06:11:59 PM »

Offline KingChre

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I didn't read the article sorry.  But this was not a risky move by the Mavs.
They had a great offense but zero chance at a title.  This move slightly improves
their chances if Rondo stays healthy (the only risky aspect being Rondo's health).
But they'll need a healthy big or two to replace Wright.

Usually its prudent to read an article before commenting on it. If you had actually taken the time, you would understand his point. Not sure why you would post on topic about an article without actually reading it.
Looking at my gucci, and it's about that time...

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #77 on: December 19, 2014, 06:15:19 PM »

Offline clover

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I mean, if that's actually your position on what happened then I'm going to advise anyone and everyone to take your posts about as seriously as something from First Take, since it belies a clear misunderstanding of how things work in terms of the news.

I am glad you hold so much power on this board that you can influence how others interact with my posts. I also don't get how your clear personal attack is reasonable (or within forum rules). Being results orientated is kind of foolish on this. The fact that a guy with an expiring contract that was not playing very well was traded was a pretty likely scenario. Jackie is throwing tons of stuff out there, and appearing on garbage shows on ESPN that are designed for entertainment rather than news represents a clear change from her role as journalist.

You are entitled to your opinion, but taking the condescending approach of telling how other posters should react to me and saying I don't understand things because I have a different opinion is not helpful in providing constructive conversation.

Unfortunately for your argument Jackie didn't even say it on live air. She dropped it casually on Isola during a commercial break.

Are we really to believe that the routine they do on these shows every episode going back about 8 years on PTI where they are casually talking and don't know they are being filmed?

Also, my point is just because someone makes a prediction of a likely event and it comes true. It doesn't mean that they knew anything. I think a lot of people could have said 3 weeks ago
"Cespedes doesn't really fit in with the Red Sox clubhouse and they are looking to trade him for anyone that can pitch a few innings at the major league level"

Bam we all knew something cause our likely prediction came true..

Does Jackie Mac really have that bad a track record that would cause you to think she just got lucky vs. actually knowing something? I think she deserves the benefit of the doubt here. My guess is someone somewhere told her something.

Your example is a little bit different. Saying Rondo was likely to get dealt is different from asserting that he wanted out before the season even started. That's a pretty bold claim and not one backed up by as much evident proof as one about Rondo's likelihood of getting dealt or Cespedes' likelihood of getting dealt.

Jackie has a very good track record and continues to be highly credible.

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #78 on: December 19, 2014, 06:19:42 PM »

Offline wiley

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I didn't read the article sorry.  But this was not a risky move by the Mavs.
They had a great offense but zero chance at a title.  This move slightly improves
their chances if Rondo stays healthy (the only risky aspect being Rondo's health).
But they'll need a healthy big or two to replace Wright.

Usually its prudent to read an article before commenting on it. If you had actually taken the time, you would understand his point. Not sure why you would post on topic about an article without actually reading it.

I think whether or not it's a risky move by the Mavs is an interesting discussion regardless of the article. 

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #79 on: December 19, 2014, 06:22:57 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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It should be pointed out that the article in question is very good.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #80 on: December 19, 2014, 06:40:20 PM »

Offline mctyson

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It should be pointed out that the article in question is very good.

Very good and looks at this trade in a very objective, balanced way.

There are 2 common themes I am seeing from those who hated this trade:

1) Ainge waited too long and sold Rondo at his lowest value, thus getting back very little in return for a player of Rondo's ability

2) Rondo is currently capable of reproducing the type of play he has exhibited when his trade value was at its maximum


The article cited here does a very good job at explaining why point #2 is very likely to be wrong.  Rondo not only has not played consistently well enough to suggest he was back to pre-ACL tear form, but this year he is playing some of the worst basketball of his career. 

The counterpoint will be that he is surrounded by mediocrity so Rondo's play is merely a function of his supporting cast...but how does that support point #1?  Didn't we keep Rondo all those years because we had Pierce, Allen, and KG - guys who would hide all of Rondo's flaws?

Let's face it, the ACL tear is the reason this went down the way it did.  There is no doubt in my mind that if Rondo never hurt his knee, he would have been dealt last year when his value theoretically could have been much higher.  But the fact is he was damaged goods, and Danny/Brad Stevens did the best they could to get him in a position to prove his health (first) and his value on the court.

Unfortunately for us, Rondo didn't prove that latter part to a level that would have forced a team to pull the trigger for a better deal.  Otherwise, we made out pretty good, as Lowe wrote.

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #81 on: December 19, 2014, 06:42:55 PM »

Offline eugen

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http://grantland.com/the-triangle/rajon-rondo-trade-dallas-mavericks/

For the Celts the bottom line is , this was likely the best package the team could get back

So, regarding this article this deal is not better for MAVS and is "risky"...And Cs getting some junk from Cuban not risky?! Wow...  ???

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #82 on: December 19, 2014, 06:51:25 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Also, I guess this Lowe guy is one of the few ESPN/Grantland guys who knows anything about basketball, because it seems all I read here is how all of these guys are idiots -- oh, except when their writing supports my opinion -- then they are brilliant.

Haven't you heard? The broken clocks are right twice a day.

I am not sure why you continue to try and antagonize me at this point.

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #83 on: December 19, 2014, 06:52:06 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Wasn't directed at you. Don't take offense.  :D
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #84 on: December 19, 2014, 06:53:13 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I mean, if that's actually your position on what happened then I'm going to advise anyone and everyone to take your posts about as seriously as something from First Take, since it belies a clear misunderstanding of how things work in terms of the news.

I am glad you hold so much power on this board that you can influence how others interact with my posts. I also don't get how your clear personal attack is reasonable (or within forum rules). Being results orientated is kind of foolish on this. The fact that a guy with an expiring contract that was not playing very well was traded was a pretty likely scenario. Jackie is throwing tons of stuff out there, and appearing on garbage shows on ESPN that are designed for entertainment rather than news represents a clear change from her role as journalist.

You are entitled to your opinion, but taking the condescending approach of telling how other posters should react to me and saying I don't understand things because I have a different opinion is not helpful in providing constructive conversation.

Just as an aside: everything about the broken clock comment is results oriented, which makes this post kind of hilarious. Much safer to stick with something like 'hindsight bias', if you want to critique the quote.  ;)

However, while I have no interest in dredging up the argument the fine posters at CB had over the merits of the comment as it happened, your frivolous response indicates that you might have missed it, and should perhaps revisit it.

I am glad you find the posts hilarious and continue to mock my viewpoint and posts in a condescending and insulting manner. Why you need to act this way with another fan of the same team as you that views something differently is beyond me but makes the board really unpleasant.

+1

Thanks Chris tommy point

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #85 on: December 19, 2014, 07:01:38 PM »

Offline wiley

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Well written and informed article.  I think I have a problem with a lot of sports
writing in general as it is a bit forced in order to fill the annals, which is why it's good
that it's so well-written.

My favorite part was pointing out the devastating nature of the injury as opposed
to bashing the Celtics for not being psychic.  Only a soothsayer and LarBrd33
would have known to trade Rondo even before Pierce and Garnett were gone.
I also liked the description of Dallas' current offensive greatness.  But they
were not a contender before this trade and at least now we can spend a month
or two re-evaluating that fact.  I do agree they'll need some new decent subs
to replace Crowder and Wright or they'll remain non-contenders.

I think what's been forgotten is how many levels on which Rondo helps a team.
He's not just a passer and rebounder.  His intangibles are off the charts.
If his free throw woes continue they can use Harris in spots at the end of close games
though this is tricky.

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #86 on: December 19, 2014, 07:04:58 PM »

Offline KingChre

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I didn't read the article sorry.  But this was not a risky move by the Mavs.
They had a great offense but zero chance at a title.  This move slightly improves
their chances if Rondo stays healthy (the only risky aspect being Rondo's health).
But they'll need a healthy big or two to replace Wright.

Usually its prudent to read an article before commenting on it. If you had actually taken the time, you would understand his point. Not sure why you would post on topic about an article without actually reading it.

I think whether or not it's a risky move by the Mavs is an interesting discussion regardless of the article.

My point is that you clicked on this topic and took the time to post, but didn't bother reading the article that this topic is about. You don't even know what his point is and yet are arguing against it. I recommend reading it, it's very interesting, and I agree that the discussion about the Mavs' risk is also interesting.

Cliffnotes version for you:

-The Mavericks are playing at a historically efficient level on offense. He argues that Rondo's tendency to hold on to the ball, and complete lack of shooting ability could hurt them more than than the defensive upgrade they will get from going from Nelson to Rondo.

-They hurt their depth by trading a very valuable bench player in Wright, and a rotation player in Crowder.

-Rondo is still a FA at the end of the season. If this doesn't work out, there is no guarantee that Rondo stays there. We may not like the return, but there is obviously some level of value that Dallas gave up, possibly for just a 4 month rental.

These are all salient and valid points. How much of a risk is of course up for debate, but to suggest that there is no risk at all is a significant exaggeration.

Looking at my gucci, and it's about that time...

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #87 on: December 19, 2014, 07:06:20 PM »

Offline KingChre

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Well written and informed article.  I think I have a problem with a lot of sports
writing in general as it is a bit forced in order to fill the annals, which is why it's good
that it's so well-written.

My favorite part was pointing out the devastating nature of the injury as opposed
to bashing the Celtics for not being psychic.  Only a soothsayer and LarBrd33
would have known to trade Rondo even before Pierce and Garnett were gone.
I also liked the description of Dallas' current offensive greatness.  But they
were not a contender before this trade and at least now we can spend a month
or two re-evaluating that fact.  I do agree they'll need some new decent subs
to replace Crowder and Wright or they'll remain non-contenders.

I think what's been forgotten is how many levels on which Rondo helps a team.
He's not just a passer and rebounder.  His intangibles are off the charts.
If his free throw woes continue they can use Harris in spots at the end of close games
though this is tricky.

Sorry, missed this response as I was typing mine above. Glad you read it, it was very informative.
Looking at my gucci, and it's about that time...