Author Topic: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk  (Read 12593 times)

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Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #45 on: December 19, 2014, 03:37:20 PM »

Offline littleteapot

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I don't think Ainge is an idiot. I think he's made some great moves and some bad moves (like every major decision maker with any important job) and this was a bad one.

I think he was sitting on Rondo while teams were offering him pretty good assets like Ben McLemore, and he was holding and holding to try to get a great one. Then he got desperate, overreacted to his bad situation and sold Rondo for just plain bad assets.

How is any of that going to change with Wright.

It changes since you can let your player walk, but still have two draft picks you wouldn't have had without the trade.
I can't argue if you think that a mid first and a second round draft pick are somewhere around what you expected to sell Rondo for. Now you have that and you might be able to sell Wright for more assets like that, and Crowder might turn into Jared Dudley.

I wouldn't have sold Rondo unless I got a legitimate asset, and we didn't get one IMO. If we got to the deadline, and all we could get was salary filler and a first (even a worse one) I would take it. But I think Danny uncharacteristically hit the panic button.
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Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #46 on: December 19, 2014, 03:37:34 PM »

Offline TheFlex

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Wright is an expiring deal.  Maybe you should understand the trade before you condemn it.
Oh now I get it. So you're saying the 5 mil that will come off the books next offseason are going to be so valuable to teams, we're sure to get a return. As opposed to the 11 mil attached to a player who is actually going to be a difference maker this season in Rondo, which got us a mid-round draft pick and Jae Crowder.

Arguably the greatest material asset we acquired was the trade exception. I don't see why everyone is ignoring that piece, it's a pretty big deal.
Because in recent years, large trade exceptions have yielded very little. We had similarly sized exception from Paul Pierce, which got us very little.

Sure, it's nice to consolidate into a $12 million TE, and it does mean that we can land a non-max player in S&T. But those things are short-lived, and I'm really not sure who can we get that will make a difference.

Thornton/Zeller/CLE 1st on its own is about as attractive as Wright/Crowder/DAL 1st. It's not going to get us a lottery pick or anything but it has the potential to add a first or another couple of seconds.


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Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #47 on: December 19, 2014, 03:39:14 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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We don't need to trade Wright.  We could trade him.  We could resign him.  We could let him walk.  Your suggestion that getting Wright somehow puts Ainge in a bind where he's GOT to do something is evidence you don't understand the things about which you are complaining.
OK here was the situation 2 days ago with us and Rondo:
We have a player who has some value this year. He has no value to us this year unless we trade him, because we are not a contender. He's not a player we want to give a max deal, so after this year we have no advantage over any team in free agency. That's why Ainge took a way below market deal - teams know his time is limited to cache in on his asset.

How is any of that going to change with Wright. Yes we can let him go to free agency. If that's true we didn't get anything out of him. We got expiring money which we already had with Rondo. So we're back to trading Rondo for a midround draft pick and a guy who has no future in the NBA (Crowder).

Almost no one thinks this is a good deal.  You don't seem to understand that a bad deal is better than a worse deal and letting Rondo walk for absolutely nothing or being pressured to give him a max deal would both be worse than what Ainge got.

Mike

+1

Ainge even tried to involve a third team to squeeze as much out of this as possible

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #48 on: December 19, 2014, 03:41:10 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Quote
"It will happen because he's told them he wants out, and no one believes me but that's the truth," MacMullan said. "And I don't see how you get 80 cents on the dollar for him. Tell me where."

8/31/2014.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D TP

Broken clock is right twice a day...

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #49 on: December 19, 2014, 03:42:57 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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Rondo's soon to be 29 years old, coming off an ACL tear, and is an impending free agent who plays the deepest position in the league.  Factor in his offensive struggles this year and you should've known the market for Rondo was never going to be particularly high.

As for the rumored Sacramento talks earlier in the year: supposedly, Rondo wasn't amenable to the idea of signing long-term with the Kings, so that's a moot point.  The Kings didn't want to do the deal without any indication that they could keep Rondo.

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #50 on: December 19, 2014, 03:47:10 PM »

Offline KingChre

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I don't think Ainge is an idiot. I think he's made some great moves and some bad moves (like every major decision maker with any important job) and this was a bad one.

I think he was sitting on Rondo while teams were offering him pretty good assets like Ben McLemore, and he was holding and holding to try to get a great one. Then he got desperate, overreacted to his bad situation and sold Rondo for just plain bad assets.

How is any of that going to change with Wright.

It changes since you can let your player walk, but still have two draft picks you wouldn't have had without the trade.
I can't argue if you think that a mid first and a second round draft pick are somewhere around what you expected to sell Rondo for. Now you have that and you might be able to sell Wright for more assets like that, and Crowder might turn into Jared Dudley.

I wouldn't have sold Rondo unless I got a legitimate asset, and we didn't get one IMO. If we got to the deadline, and all we could get was salary filler and a first (even a worse one) I would take it. But I think Danny uncharacteristically hit the panic button.

You are stating this as if it is an absolute fact. Trade rumors are not facts. Even if it is true that was Sacramento's offer, you are ignoring the fact that teams were wary of trading for Rondo without any assurances that he would re-sign there. I seem to remember a big issue with the Kings is that Rondo was NOT interested in going there. I don't think that backs up your greater point at all.

That being said, I think that Danny is due a bit of criticism for overvaluing Rondo. He held out hope that he could bring in Kevin Love and that a prospective Rondo/Love duo would attract a third star. I never believed Love was a realistic target and I would have traded Rondo earlier. I certainly don't equate that with panicking and trading Rondo yesterday. It's actually the opposite of panic, he was too patient, and had to cash out before his value dropped even more.
Looking at my gucci, and it's about that time...

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #51 on: December 19, 2014, 03:51:56 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Rondo's soon to be 29 years old, coming off an ACL tear, and is an impending free agent who plays the deepest position in the league.  Factor in his offensive struggles this year and you should've known the market for Rondo was never going to be particularly high.

As for the rumored Sacramento talks earlier in the year: supposedly, Rondo wasn't amenable to the idea of signing long-term with the Kings, so that's a moot point.  The Kings didn't want to do the deal without any indication that they could keep Rondo.

We could of had mclemore and thomas if Rondo agreed to an extension with the kings. Should we blame RR for messing up that trade?

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #52 on: December 19, 2014, 03:53:21 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Quote
"It will happen because he's told them he wants out, and no one believes me but that's the truth," MacMullan said. "And I don't see how you get 80 cents on the dollar for him. Tell me where."

8/31/2014.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D TP

Broken clock is right twice a day...

 ::)
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #53 on: December 19, 2014, 04:07:19 PM »

Offline littleteapot

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I don't know what happened with the proposed Sacramento deal. Here's a good list of the various Rondo rumors over the years.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/12/18/7418339/rajon-rondo-trade-rumors-history-celtics

The common denominator with all these rumors? A legit draft pick or young player for Rondo. Either Shumpert, Jennings, McLemore, etc. These players are all flawed, but they all have real potential. Maybe I'm just crazy, but I would think the Celtics could have got a deal done one one of these or something similar - that's what the market has been for Rondo.

You're right, he was too patient and thought he could either build with Rondo or get a better deal for him. Then Rondo's stock took a fast, temporary dip. We can't predict the future, but I've seen enough crazy stuff happen in 2 months to risk that we might be back to talking about real assets. There's only so far Rondo's stock can continue to fall in the next 2 months (I'd say about a draft pick and a trade exception's worth), but it can go a lot higher.
How do you feel about websites where people with similar interests share their opinions?
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Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #54 on: December 19, 2014, 04:11:14 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Quote
"It will happen because he's told them he wants out, and no one believes me but that's the truth," MacMullan said. "And I don't see how you get 80 cents on the dollar for him. Tell me where."

8/31/2014.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D TP

Broken clock is right twice a day...

 ::)

« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 04:22:59 PM by celticsclay »

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #55 on: December 19, 2014, 04:13:25 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I mean, if that's actually your position on what happened then I'm going to advise anyone and everyone to take your posts about as seriously as something from First Take, since it belies a clear misunderstanding of how things work in terms of the news.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #56 on: December 19, 2014, 04:22:42 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I mean, if that's actually your position on what happened then I'm going to advise anyone and everyone to take your posts about as seriously as something from First Take, since it belies a clear misunderstanding of how things work in terms of the news.

I am glad you hold so much power on this board that you can influence how others interact with my posts. I also don't get how your clear personal attack is reasonable (or within forum rules). Being results orientated is kind of foolish on this. The fact that a guy with an expiring contract that was not playing very well was traded was a pretty likely scenario. Jackie is throwing tons of stuff out there, and appearing on garbage shows on ESPN that are designed for entertainment rather than news represents a clear change from her role as journalist.

You are entitled to your opinion, but taking the condescending approach of telling how other posters should react to me and saying I don't understand things because I have a different opinion is not helpful in providing constructive conversation.

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #57 on: December 19, 2014, 04:30:59 PM »

Offline TheFlex

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I mean, if that's actually your position on what happened then I'm going to advise anyone and everyone to take your posts about as seriously as something from First Take, since it belies a clear misunderstanding of how things work in terms of the news.

I am glad you hold so much power on this board that you can influence how others interact with my posts. I also don't get how your clear personal attack is reasonable (or within forum rules). Being results orientated is kind of foolish on this. The fact that a guy with an expiring contract that was not playing very well was traded was a pretty likely scenario. Jackie is throwing tons of stuff out there, and appearing on garbage shows on ESPN that are designed for entertainment rather than news represents a clear change from her role as journalist.

You are entitled to your opinion, but taking the condescending approach of telling how other posters should react to me and saying I don't understand things because I have a different opinion is not helpful in providing constructive conversation.

Unfortunately for your argument Jackie didn't even say it on live air. She dropped it casually on Isola during a commercial break.


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Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #58 on: December 19, 2014, 04:34:23 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I mean, if that's actually your position on what happened then I'm going to advise anyone and everyone to take your posts about as seriously as something from First Take, since it belies a clear misunderstanding of how things work in terms of the news.

I am glad you hold so much power on this board that you can influence how others interact with my posts. I also don't get how your clear personal attack is reasonable (or within forum rules). Being results orientated is kind of foolish on this. The fact that a guy with an expiring contract that was not playing very well was traded was a pretty likely scenario. Jackie is throwing tons of stuff out there, and appearing on garbage shows on ESPN that are designed for entertainment rather than news represents a clear change from her role as journalist.

You are entitled to your opinion, but taking the condescending approach of telling how other posters should react to me and saying I don't understand things because I have a different opinion is not helpful in providing constructive conversation.

Just as an aside: everything about the broken clock comment is results oriented, which makes this post kind of hilarious. Much safer to stick with something like 'hindsight bias', if you want to critique the quote.  ;)

However, while I have no interest in dredging up the argument the fine posters at CB had over the merits of the comment as it happened, your frivolous response indicates that you might have missed it, and should perhaps revisit it.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #59 on: December 19, 2014, 04:36:56 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I mean, if that's actually your position on what happened then I'm going to advise anyone and everyone to take your posts about as seriously as something from First Take, since it belies a clear misunderstanding of how things work in terms of the news.

I am glad you hold so much power on this board that you can influence how others interact with my posts. I also don't get how your clear personal attack is reasonable (or within forum rules). Being results orientated is kind of foolish on this. The fact that a guy with an expiring contract that was not playing very well was traded was a pretty likely scenario. Jackie is throwing tons of stuff out there, and appearing on garbage shows on ESPN that are designed for entertainment rather than news represents a clear change from her role as journalist.

You are entitled to your opinion, but taking the condescending approach of telling how other posters should react to me and saying I don't understand things because I have a different opinion is not helpful in providing constructive conversation.

Unfortunately for your argument Jackie didn't even say it on live air. She dropped it casually on Isola during a commercial break.

Are we really to believe that the routine they do on these shows every episode going back about 8 years on PTI where they are casually talking and don't know they are being filmed?

Also, my point is just because someone makes a prediction of a likely event and it comes true. It doesn't mean that they knew anything. I think a lot of people could have said 3 weeks ago
"Cespedes doesn't really fit in with the Red Sox clubhouse and they are looking to trade him for anyone that can pitch a few innings at the major league level"

Bam we all knew something cause our likely prediction came true..