Author Topic: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk  (Read 12564 times)

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Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2014, 02:30:25 PM »

Offline MBunge

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We made the trade when we did because Friday was the deadline to complete trades and have the players eligible to be moved again by the trade deadline.  Same thing Houston unsuccessfully tried with Asik last year, we just didn't announce it the way they did.
That only matters if it allows to get value, which we didn't. Now we're just gonna get bent over a barrel in 2 months to get rid of Wright.

Wright is an expiring deal.  Maybe you should understand the trade before you condemn it.

Mike

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2014, 02:33:24 PM »

Offline TheFlex

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Quote
"It will happen because he's told them he wants out, and no one believes me but that's the truth," MacMullan said. "And I don't see how you get 80 cents on the dollar for him. Tell me where."

8/31/2014.

TP. Then there was this today: http://redsarmy.com/2014/12/19/your-morning-dump-where-the-celtics-feared-rondo-wouldnt-re-sign/

It was a disappointing deal for everyone, but for those who want to "fire Ainge," there seem to be a few fallacies they're relying on:

1) There was a better offer on the table and Danny refused to take it.

2) Rondo definitely would've stayed for reasonable money.

3) Keeping Rondo was the best chance at title contention within a handful of years.

The latter seems to be the most debatable but if anything, to me, it is silly. Consider this from Bulpett:

Quote
And — this is very important — the Celtics weren’t sure they wanted to get into a bidding situation for a player who will be 29 in February and may not be at the level the team needs when next it has a realistic chance to be a serious postseason participant.

The Celtics retainment of Rondo could have easily led to perpetual mediocrity as it could have led to a 3-5 year contention window.


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Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2014, 02:34:58 PM »

Offline littleteapot

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Even if Rose got hurt, what in the world could Chicago send us in exchange for Rondo that wouldn't leave them no better off?  Pau?  Butler?  Gibson?  Noah?  Rose?  How would swapping any of those players for Rondo work?
How about Doug McDermott or Mirotic? Snell? I'd rather have any of those guys the Crowder. And if we start negotiating on those terms, we can go to the Mavs and the Rockets and say "the Bulls are offering us Snell - give us something to compete with that.

Quote
1.  We had to send Rondo to a team with whom he would be willing to resign.  that probably eliminates at least 20 teams off the top and maybe 25.
According to reports, he was willing to resign with Dallas or Houston

Quote
2.  The teams that are left have to actually want Rondo.  How many of the top 5 to 10 teams in the league aren't already happy with their PG?
Dallas and Houston

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3.  The other team has to have something of some value to Boston.  Ainge got a first rounder (probably to be in the mid to low 20s in 2016), a high PER big in Wright, a young scrapper in Crowder and a bridge PG in Nelson to help man the position while Smart develops.  Is that a good deal?  Heck, no.  It's pretty bad but let's not kid ourselves that there were a bunch of superior options.
I thought the Green+Rondo for Parsons trade idea on these forums was pretty fair. We would only get to that if we actually waited to get leverage and start playing teams off each other which I know is a crazy idea that doesn't make sense in the modern NBA.

People have also mentioned the young bigs the Rockets have, Donatas Motiejunas and Clint Capela. Both are projects, but they have potential at least.
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Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2014, 02:44:55 PM »

Offline littleteapot

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Wright is an expiring deal.  Maybe you should understand the trade before you condemn it.
Oh now I get it. So you're saying the 5 mil that will come off the books next offseason are going to be so valuable to teams, we're sure to get a return. As opposed to the 11 mil attached to a player who is actually going to be a difference maker this season in Rondo, which got us a mid-round draft pick and Jae Crowder.
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Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2014, 02:50:24 PM »

Offline piercetruth34

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The key there is we are going to have to be able to find those players.  I think the nba is a talent league but I also think chemistry is important and basketball is still a team sport.  Going with youth we at least know these guys are all going to be on the same page and have no excuse in that regard.   1920 though nearly 100 years ago the red sox sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees. I thnk times are different and we will be ok.  We have some good pieces and not sure Rondo made that big of a difference.  A fully focused smart vs a meandering Rondo is probably smart all day anyways.

I'm still not a huge fan of this trade as it stands either.  I don't think it was so much a bout the return either.  IT's more just a new direction and opening things up where youth can be served.  It was more trade rondo  or not to me.

I think ROndo will do well but it is a bit of a risk for the mavs. Offensively or sharing the ball wasn't their problem.   

The thing is playoffs big time players seem to win though.  It's a team sport and teams like San Antonio succeed. You don't need the top of the top but you do need those upper echelon players and a good team atmosphere.

I still think  the trade would have been beter if we were guaranteed Jhalil Okafor.  you need those top guys.  Right now we have Smart, KO who can figure into that upper echelon ultimately. We still need that young superstar though or our Timmy Duncan.

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2014, 02:56:03 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Quote
"It will happen because he's told them he wants out, and no one believes me but that's the truth," MacMullan said. "And I don't see how you get 80 cents on the dollar for him. Tell me where."

8/31/2014.

I'm one of those who pooh-pooh'd Jackie's comment.  Maybe she just got lucky but she sure looks a lot smarter than me right now.

Mike

It's the nature of the beast. Rondo could've stayed and those of us who thought there was some merit to her comments would've ended up with an equal amount of egg on our faces.

On the other hand, this means the road is clear to resign Sebastian Telfair! Right? Right?
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2014, 02:59:42 PM »

Offline MBunge

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Even if Rose got hurt, what in the world could Chicago send us in exchange for Rondo that wouldn't leave them no better off?  Pau?  Butler?  Gibson?  Noah?  Rose?  How would swapping any of those players for Rondo work?
How about Doug McDermott or Mirotic? Snell? I'd rather have any of those guys the Crowder. And if we start negotiating on those terms, we can go to the Mavs and the Rockets and say "the Bulls are offering us Snell - give us something to compete with that.


Both teams are over the salary cap, which means they have to send back a heck of a lot more than that for Rondo.  Again, understand how trades work before you complain.

Mike

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2014, 03:00:22 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Why would the Mavs trade parsons even for green and rondo?  You know how much effort it took the mavs to grab him?


Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2014, 03:01:11 PM »

Offline MBunge

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Wright is an expiring deal.  Maybe you should understand the trade before you condemn it.
Oh now I get it. So you're saying the 5 mil that will come off the books next offseason are going to be so valuable to teams, we're sure to get a return. As opposed to the 11 mil attached to a player who is actually going to be a difference maker this season in Rondo, which got us a mid-round draft pick and Jae Crowder.

We don't need to trade Wright.  We could trade him.  We could resign him.  We could let him walk.  Your suggestion that getting Wright somehow puts Ainge in a bind where he's GOT to do something is evidence you don't understand the things about which you are complaining.

Mike

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2014, 03:02:28 PM »

Offline TheFlex

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Wright is an expiring deal.  Maybe you should understand the trade before you condemn it.
Oh now I get it. So you're saying the 5 mil that will come off the books next offseason are going to be so valuable to teams, we're sure to get a return. As opposed to the 11 mil attached to a player who is actually going to be a difference maker this season in Rondo, which got us a mid-round draft pick and Jae Crowder.

Arguably the greatest material asset we acquired was the trade exception. I don't see why everyone is ignoring that piece, it's a pretty big deal.


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Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2014, 03:04:51 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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That's a great article. Tp.

Also not surprised by perks comments. I never felt like he felt the way Pierce did about the organization and his place in team history.

I can't blame him for wanting to leave just like I can't blame doc. Rondo will always be a CELTIC to me.


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Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2014, 03:11:14 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Lowe dropping knowledge and echoing everything i've been saying since the trade went down.  I even posted this thread with most of the same points... based on a "Pace and Space" video Lowe had created about the Mavs offense:  http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=74923.0

No guarantee the Mavs are better after this deal.  Should be very interesting to see what happens here.

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2014, 03:12:20 PM »

Offline littleteapot

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Both teams are over the salary cap, which means they have to send back a heck of a lot more than that for Rondo.  Again, understand how trades work before you complain.
Snell + Hinrich + the crap on the bottom of the roster for Rondo.

Arguably the greatest material asset we acquired was the trade exception. I don't see why everyone is ignoring that piece, it's a pretty big deal.
We get that with any Rondo deal we make.
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Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2014, 03:18:49 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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If Dallas was not willing to give more, we had to take the deal. Keeping Rondo would have been shooting ourselves in the foot. The only way he would have stayed was if we overpayed him.

Dallas has assumed a lot of risk with this deal. Rondo is not good enough at the moment for teams to offer rich packages, especially when he will be a FA at season's end.

It is very possible that Rondo does not perform well in Dallas and they let him walk to a team willing to pay him more at the end of the season. I look forward to the first time Popovich breaks out the hack-a-Rondo in the 3rd quarter.

When it isn't even clear that Rondo will make Dallas better, why would they also trade Parsons, one of their core players? Especially for Green who can bail due to a player option.

Lowe is correct. Once Rondo tore the ACL, we lost our chance to get much for him because it still isn't clear what his value is.

Re: Superb article on the Rondo trade by Lowe - Mavs taking a risk
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2014, 03:18:58 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Both teams are over the salary cap, which means they have to send back a heck of a lot more than that for Rondo.  Again, understand how trades work before you complain.
Snell + Hinrich + the crap on the bottom of the roster for Rondo.

Arguably the greatest material asset we acquired was the trade exception. I don't see why everyone is ignoring that piece, it's a pretty big deal.
We get that with any Rondo deal we make.

No, we'd only get a full exception if none of the players we took back made more than our exception from Bogans, and collectively they must all fit under the Bogans exception, the Anthony exception, and the minimum-salary exception, which they all did.  If Rondo had gone to the Lakers for Nash, for instance, we'd have gained an exception closer to $3 million than $13 million.