Does it bother anyone else?

[Yoki_IsTheName]

I posted this on an another thread, and will just post it again.

A friend of mine from the Philippines made a pretty good argument on Facebook about Boston and Free Agents and I kind of agree. There's no loyalty with Danny Ainge, he will move you if he see's fit to his plans. And he said that that's one more reason why Boston can't attract Free Agents, other than the other factors.

I mean, I agree. Being disingenuous and lack of loyalty will scare off talent. It does bother me, now that you mention it.

I don't think that holds at all. Ainge has always traded his star players to good situations. He sent Perkins to a contender, he sent Garnett and Pierce to a contender (well, we thought they'd be one at the time), he sent Rondo to a contender.

If anything that shows a great deal of loyalty and a concern for his players.

That's a fair point.

[oldtype]

I posted this on an another thread, and will just post it again.

A friend of mine from the Philippines made a pretty good argument on Facebook about Boston and Free Agents and I kind of agree. There's no loyalty with Danny Ainge, he will move you if he see's fit to his plans. And he said that that's one more reason why Boston can't attract Free Agents, other than the other factors.

I mean, I agree. Being disingenuous and lack of loyalty will scare off talent. It does bother me, now that you mention it.

I don't think that holds at all. Ainge has always traded his star players to good situations. He sent Perkins to a contender, he sent Garnett and Pierce to a contender (well, we thought they'd be one at the time), he sent Rondo to a contender.

If anything that shows a great deal of loyalty and a concern for his players.

That's a fair point.

Thanks.

I think that's particularly true when you compare and contrast to how Morey treated Jeremy Lin or how Ujiri gave away Rudy Gay to (what looked like at the time) a hopeless situation with the Kings.

Ainge may or may not be a better GM than those people, but I think he has a pretty good reputation for loyalty.

[piercetruth34]

I posted this on an another thread, and will just post it again.

A friend of mine from the Philippines made a pretty good argument on Facebook about Boston and Free Agents and I kind of agree. There's no loyalty with Danny Ainge, he will move you if he see's fit to his plans. And he said that that's one more reason why Boston can't attract Free Agents, other than the other factors.

I mean, I agree. Being disingenuous and lack of loyalty will scare off talent. It does bother me, now that you mention it.

I don't think that holds at all. Ainge has always traded his star players to good situations. He sent Perkins to a contender, he sent Garnett and Pierce to a contender (well, we thought they'd be one at the time), he sent Rondo to a contender.

If anything that shows a great deal of loyalty and a concern for his players.

That's a fair point.

Thanks.

I think that's particularly true when you compare and contrast to how Morey treated Jeremy Lin or how Ujiri gave away Rudy Gay to (what looked like at the time) a hopeless situation with the Kings.

Ainge may or may not be a better GM than those people, but I think he has a pretty good reputation for loyalty.

A lot of fans would have dumped rondo for a bag of chips to some losing team. I give credit to ainge at least for respecting rondo in that regard and working with him to make a mvoe that worked for both parties if we were going to make that move.  I hope in ways Ainge didn't feel pressured like he had to make this move though.  Rondo is a player who is still in his prime and can come back and still bite us.

I think Ainge still treated Rondo like a person, that's more than some can say.

Sometimes the media can't be trusted with the truth.  That might be the reality of it and Ainge had rondo's back in that regard. I don't count myself as one of those people though.

[crimson_stallion]

You'll hear a lot of people saying that's part of his job but it's been the worst kept secret we've been shopping Rondo for a long time.  it does hurt a little to know when your team management is being disingenuous and even though it's part of the game they play to preserve a guys value and not in effect call the the vultures out. didn't work though did it? we still got a flaming pile for rondo despite efforts like the one you mention to suggest we really y didn't want to trade him, nobody believed it

A lot of people believe that Danny said he wants to keep Rondo so that he could keep Rondo's value high.  I think that is one of the biggest misconceptions, and I honestly think it's just outsiders seeing the situation from an outsiders perspective.

People seem to look at the league as of the GM's of opposing teams have no insider information, and that they only know as much as us fans know...and I think that's silly.  GM's of opposing teams are always in conversation with one another.  They all 'know' what each players' value is to their hometown GM's.  You really think that one team is going to offer more for Rondo just because Danny said he wants to keep him?  Hell no.  These teams know what a guy like Rondo is worth on the market, and they know what he is worth to them, and that's what they are going to offer - period. What Danny says in public is going to have close to zero impact on that. 

The more likely scenario is that Danny will publically say he wants to keep Rondo because:

1) It's what the fans mostly want to hear
2) It's what Rondo would probably rather hear
3) Any comments outside of this would create a media circus that nobody wants

To be honest I'm sure there was some truth to what Danny said.  This season was the first one in which we have had a healthy Rondo without stars around him.  The Celtics management probably really did want to see what Rondo could do with this group of guys.

* Would he elevate his game?
* Would he take a bigger load offensively?
* Would the team overachieve and surprise people?

If the above all happened and the Celtics were sitting in a solid 6th seed in the East, then Rondo would probably still be a Celtic.  Watching this team play you can see that Rondo's specific skill set just doesn't compliment the groups of guys we have, and it's unfortunately a lot easier to trade one guy out then it is to trade half a team out. Rondo is the type of player who will excel on a team that has either:

* Multiple superstars (like he had in the Big 3 era) who can carry the scoring load, and who can afford to have an offensive non-factor at PG

* A roster full of excellent outside shooters who can stretch the floor and make up for Rondo's lack of shooting

Boston has neither, and so when Rondo is being ignored on offense we just don't have enough shooters / scorers around to make the defence pay.

A few months of the season has gone past now, and I think both Danny and Brad have recognised that based on how this team is assembled, we need a different kind of point guard.  No knock on the quality of player Rondo is, he's just not the right fit at the time.  They tried to make it work because I'm sure they realise how impressive a talent he is, but it just wasn't meant to be...and so rather than force the issue, they're moving on.

As sad as it is (and I'm still in shock over it) I have to applaud Danny for having the "grit and balls" to make such a difficult decision, to stick to his guns, and to make the move that is in the best interest of the team.  I can guarantee you it would not have been an easy decision for Danny, for Brad, for Rajon or for anybody else on the team...but it's one that I'm sure they all agreed was best for everybody.

I wish Rondo the best of luck with the Mav's, and in a way I think he's better off because he's on a serious playoff team with a legit shot at going somewhere.

[piercetruth34]

That's the thing. I think i saw it for what it was.  AInge went after Kevin Love. rondo also had lunch with kobe.  I think the possibility was there and they handled it in a mature way and explored different options.  I don't think it was ever a done deal until it was done.  I Think a lot of options were explored and allowed to be explored out of respect to Rondo and the celtics. Ultimately we made this deal. It was getting down to it and it was either move him or don't and risk losing him this offseason.  I think we could have resigned him personally if we really wanted to but we decided not to do that and go with the young guys and try to put pieces around them.

I still think we could have built with Rondo but it just didn't go that way.

I think we got a pretty decent return considering what we were trying to do this way with the young guys.  We got some potential roleplayers and covered our bases that way and can go into the draft to get those other stars. 

Guys like Zeller, Wright, Crowder.  These are roleplayers who will allow players like Smart and KO to start to lead and establish themselves.  We have James young etc who could be a potential starter someday.  Stevens system has called for a guy like bass to shoot the 3. Crowder is a guy who can sort of do that and gives us an option there.  It also will allow us to move green and give us a stopgap there.

But if we were going with youth the process of it is that imo.. IT will allow guys like Smart and KO to start to lead.   I think other options were explored though and keeping Rondo was one of them.  I guess we will never know in that regard though.. . It just seemed like the consensus on the itnernet was we were trading rondo and that was best. 

[piercetruth34]

I also think it's a boston thing where a player is good it's like time to trade him.  It's the fans as much as anything else.  I hope we really commit to these young guys.

I still think Rondo is one of the best pgs in the league that's the whole thing.  Not an easy trade to make.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

That's the thing. I think i saw it for what it was.  AInge went after Kevin Love. rondo also had lunch with kobe.  I think the possibility was there and they handled it in a mature way and explored different options.  I don't think it was ever a done deal until it was done.  I Think a lot of options were explored and allowed to be explored out of respect to Rondo and the celtics. Ultimately we made this deal. It was getting down to it and it was either move him or don't and risk losing him this offseason.  I think we could have resigned him personally if we really wanted to but we decided not to do that and go with the young guys and try to put pieces around them.

I still think we could have built with Rondo but it just didn't go that way.

I think we got a pretty decent return considering what we were trying to do this way with the young guys.  We got some potential roleplayers and covered our bases that way and can go into the draft to get those other stars. 

Guys like Zeller, Wright, Crowder.  These are roleplayers who will allow players like Smart and KO to start to lead and establish themselves.  We have James young etc who could be a potential starter someday.  Stevens system has called for a guy like bass to shoot the 3. Crowder is a guy who can sort of do that and gives us an option there.  It also will allow us to move green and give us a stopgap there.

But if we were going with youth the process of it is that imo.. IT will allow guys like Smart and KO to start to lead.   I think other options were explored though and keeping Rondo was one of them.  I guess we will never know in that regard though.. . It just seemed like the consensus on the itnernet was we were trading rondo and that was best.

I need to see more from Smart, but if KO will be one of our leaders for this team, it's going to be a loooooooooooooooooooooooong time before we get to banner 18.

[chambers]

You'll hear a lot of people saying that's part of his job but it's been the worst kept secret we've been shopping Rondo for a long time.  it does hurt a little to know when your team management is being disingenuous and even though it's part of the game they play to preserve a guys value and not in effect call the the vultures out. didn't work though did it? we still got a flaming pile for rondo despite efforts like the one you mention to suggest we really y didn't want to trade him, nobody believed it

A lot of people believe that Danny said he wants to keep Rondo so that he could keep Rondo's value high.  I think that is one of the biggest misconceptions, and I honestly think it's just outsiders seeing the situation from an outsiders perspective.

People seem to look at the league as of the GM's of opposing teams have no insider information, and that they only know as much as us fans know...and I think that's silly.  GM's of opposing teams are always in conversation with one another.  They all 'know' what each players' value is to their hometown GM's.  You really think that one team is going to offer more for Rondo just because Danny said he wants to keep him?  Hell no.  These teams know what a guy like Rondo is worth on the market, and they know what he is worth to them, and that's what they are going to offer - period. What Danny says in public is going to have close to zero impact on that. 

The more likely scenario is that Danny will publically say he wants to keep Rondo because:

1) It's what the fans mostly want to hear
2) It's what Rondo would probably rather hear
3) Any comments outside of this would create a media circus that nobody wants

To be honest I'm sure there was some truth to what Danny said.  This season was the first one in which we have had a healthy Rondo without stars around him.  The Celtics management probably really did want to see what Rondo could do with this group of guys.

* Would he elevate his game?
* Would he take a bigger load offensively?
* Would the team overachieve and surprise people?

If the above all happened and the Celtics were sitting in a solid 6th seed in the East, then Rondo would probably still be a Celtic.  Watching this team play you can see that Rondo's specific skill set just doesn't compliment the groups of guys we have, and it's unfortunately a lot easier to trade one guy out then it is to trade half a team out. Rondo is the type of player who will excel on a team that has either:

* Multiple superstars (like he had in the Big 3 era) who can carry the scoring load, and who can afford to have an offensive non-factor at PG

* A roster full of excellent outside shooters who can stretch the floor and make up for Rondo's lack of shooting

Boston has neither, and so when Rondo is being ignored on offense we just don't have enough shooters / scorers around to make the defence pay.

A few months of the season has gone past now, and I think both Danny and Brad have recognised that based on how this team is assembled, we need a different kind of point guard.  No knock on the quality of player Rondo is, he's just not the right fit at the time.  They tried to make it work because I'm sure they realise how impressive a talent he is, but it just wasn't meant to be...and so rather than force the issue, they're moving on.

As sad as it is (and I'm still in shock over it) I have to applaud Danny for having the "grit and balls" to make such a difficult decision, to stick to his guns, and to make the move that is in the best interest of the team.  I can guarantee you it would not have been an easy decision for Danny, for Brad, for Rajon or for anybody else on the team...but it's one that I'm sure they all agreed was best for everybody.

I wish Rondo the best of luck with the Mav's, and in a way I think he's better off because he's on a serious playoff team with a legit shot at going somewhere.

One of the best posts I've read in a long time crimson.
TP

[Tr1boy]

That's the thing. I think i saw it for what it was.  AInge went after Kevin Love. rondo also had lunch with kobe.  I think the possibility was there and they handled it in a mature way and explored different options.  I don't think it was ever a done deal until it was done.  I Think a lot of options were explored and allowed to be explored out of respect to Rondo and the celtics. Ultimately we made this deal. It was getting down to it and it was either move him or don't and risk losing him this offseason.  I think we could have resigned him personally if we really wanted to but we decided not to do that and go with the young guys and try to put pieces around them.

I still think we could have built with Rondo but it just didn't go that way.

I think we got a pretty decent return considering what we were trying to do this way with the young guys.  We got some potential roleplayers and covered our bases that way and can go into the draft to get those other stars. 

Guys like Zeller, Wright, Crowder.  These are roleplayers who will allow players like Smart and KO to start to lead and establish themselves.  We have James young etc who could be a potential starter someday.  Stevens system has called for a guy like bass to shoot the 3. Crowder is a guy who can sort of do that and gives us an option there.  It also will allow us to move green and give us a stopgap there.

But if we were going with youth the process of it is that imo.. IT will allow guys like Smart and KO to start to lead.   I think other options were explored though and keeping Rondo was one of them.  I guess we will never know in that regard though.. . It just seemed like the consensus on the itnernet was we were trading rondo and that was best.

I need to see more from Smart, but if KO will be one of our leaders for this team, it's going to be a loooooooooooooooooooooooong time before we get to banner 18.

No it wont. KO is just firing up

[86MaxwellSmart]

I'm just gonna pretend that Rondo tore his ACL again...and that's why he isn't here anymore.

[piercetruth34]

Rondo is going to fit really well with the mavs i feel.  Just listening to scal and he is kind of saying what I was trying to that he talks to rondo every day and sees him differently then most of the media .  HE also feels it's a good trade for both parties.  I kind of agree with the consensus at this point that youth will be served here and Rondo goes to a good situation too.

Smart is a guy who is going to attack the basket and doesn't dominate the ball like Rondo. He's also a better defender. We still need other pieces though.  We got some good roleplayers I feel that will fit with what Stevens is trying to do here.  KO is going to be special I feel as well as long as he listens to tommy and remains aggressive offensively.

Sully I actually have questions about in ways.  He's undersized but should find his role here too.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I'm just gonna pretend that Rondo tore his ACL again...and that's why he isn't here anymore.

LOL, these threads are on fire tonight!

[piercetruth34]

I'm still somewhat disappointed.  Excited about the future but disappointed.  People can try to rationalize it all they want but they aren't necessarily being rational either. Ainge also wasn't necessarily true to his word. 

I also think Rondo is a really good player and regardless of how people rationalize or how things fit you should be able to make that work in ways.  There were different ways we could have gone here imo even still and I don't think either side is right on this one.

Rondo is in his prime.  IT's like saying Bob Cousy couldn't win here to me. We could  have won with Rondo if we really wanted to.

I think that is one of the greatest shames of stuff like this.  Always will too because it truly is. I get progressive thinking too. That's not it.  I just don't buy it when someone says we simply couldn't have made things work with Rondo. That's not true.

It doesn't matter now but that's not emotions speaking either.  That's perfectly rational.  We could have made things work with Rondo if we really wanted to.  Rondo included in that.  He would have had to buy in himself and improve certain aspects of his game.

I think that's the reality of things though is players have so many options can go elsewhere don't have to improve aspects of their game. That's a shame imo. 

Players are replaceable.  A player doesn't get things done now we can trade him. That's the reality of it.

I still would have liked to see Rondo become the player he can be here though.

[blink]

You'll hear a lot of people saying that's part of his job but it's been the worst kept secret we've been shopping Rondo for a long time.  it does hurt a little to know when your team management is being disingenuous and even though it's part of the game they play to preserve a guys value and not in effect call the the vultures out. didn't work though did it? we still got a flaming pile for rondo despite efforts like the one you mention to suggest we really y didn't want to trade him, nobody believed it

A lot of people believe that Danny said he wants to keep Rondo so that he could keep Rondo's value high.  I think that is one of the biggest misconceptions, and I honestly think it's just outsiders seeing the situation from an outsiders perspective.

People seem to look at the league as of the GM's of opposing teams have no insider information, and that they only know as much as us fans know...and I think that's silly.  GM's of opposing teams are always in conversation with one another.  They all 'know' what each players' value is to their hometown GM's.  You really think that one team is going to offer more for Rondo just because Danny said he wants to keep him?  Hell no.  These teams know what a guy like Rondo is worth on the market, and they know what he is worth to them, and that's what they are going to offer - period. What Danny says in public is going to have close to zero impact on that. 

The more likely scenario is that Danny will publically say he wants to keep Rondo because:

1) It's what the fans mostly want to hear
2) It's what Rondo would probably rather hear
3) Any comments outside of this would create a media circus that nobody wants

To be honest I'm sure there was some truth to what Danny said.  This season was the first one in which we have had a healthy Rondo without stars around him.  The Celtics management probably really did want to see what Rondo could do with this group of guys.

* Would he elevate his game?
* Would he take a bigger load offensively?
* Would the team overachieve and surprise people?

If the above all happened and the Celtics were sitting in a solid 6th seed in the East, then Rondo would probably still be a Celtic.  Watching this team play you can see that Rondo's specific skill set just doesn't compliment the groups of guys we have, and it's unfortunately a lot easier to trade one guy out then it is to trade half a team out. Rondo is the type of player who will excel on a team that has either:

* Multiple superstars (like he had in the Big 3 era) who can carry the scoring load, and who can afford to have an offensive non-factor at PG

* A roster full of excellent outside shooters who can stretch the floor and make up for Rondo's lack of shooting

Boston has neither, and so when Rondo is being ignored on offense we just don't have enough shooters / scorers around to make the defence pay.

A few months of the season has gone past now, and I think both Danny and Brad have recognised that based on how this team is assembled, we need a different kind of point guard.  No knock on the quality of player Rondo is, he's just not the right fit at the time.  They tried to make it work because I'm sure they realise how impressive a talent he is, but it just wasn't meant to be...and so rather than force the issue, they're moving on.

As sad as it is (and I'm still in shock over it) I have to applaud Danny for having the "grit and balls" to make such a difficult decision, to stick to his guns, and to make the move that is in the best interest of the team.  I can guarantee you it would not have been an easy decision for Danny, for Brad, for Rajon or for anybody else on the team...but it's one that I'm sure they all agreed was best for everybody.

I wish Rondo the best of luck with the Mav's, and in a way I think he's better off because he's on a serious playoff team with a legit shot at going somewhere.

In the midst of a lot of extreme posts, kudos on a really well thought out reasonable take on things.  TP for the good read.

[libermaniac]

I don't understand the urgency to make such a horrible deal at this point.  None of the assets coming back will be of any significant value.  So, wasn't there a greater likelihood that some trade opportunity opens up where the C's could be buyers at the trade deadline (e.g. Melo or something), or there is a sign and trade opportunity in the offseason.  Or, perhaps the C's gel in the second half of the season and become an attractive place for Rondo to remain? 

It just seems to give up now for peanuts was a horrible move.