Author Topic: EMBRACE the TANK!!!  (Read 17272 times)

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Re: EMBRACE the TANK!!!
« Reply #60 on: December 28, 2014, 04:37:10 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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History has shown we do not want to have the fifth worst record. Is this not how we got worked in the last draft. Isnt it impossible to move up from #5? We need to bottom out and get the worst record or the bottom three.

There are a number of rim protectors in this draft!!!!
I really like the top 6 players in the draft
1. Okafor
2. Towns
3. Mudiay
4. WCS
5. Winslow
6. Johnson

if we can get into the top 6 i'll be happy

Not even sure these are the top 6. This appears to be a deeper draft than most expected - lot of talent. Again, not sure there is a superstar there, though. But nonetheless, I am equally excited.
That is my top 6. If a player goes ahead of one of those guys and pushed someone I want on the C's back even better.

Also I could see Myles Turner jumping up into that group.

 I think Johnson is a top 5 pick, somewhere at 4th or 5th spot.  I want Okafor or Stanley Johnson.  Those 2 are can't miss guys.  But I'd be happy with any of those 6 except WCS,  I don't think he is worth a top 6 pick.  I think he'll be drafted at the 9th or 10th pick at best.
+1 I want Okafor and Johnson.

Re: EMBRACE the TANK!!!
« Reply #61 on: December 28, 2014, 09:26:42 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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I don't see why it makes any sense to tank this year.

It's not good for the young players to learn bad habits.
We have a ton of first round picks coming to add to whatever the core of this team is. And NJ looks to be in serious decline as expected. We don't need to be bad when we have their picks.
We have a good bunch of assets already. Where does it end? We also are about to get cap room this summer.

Every move from here should be about improving the existing team right now. I think we are past the point where it's an obviously good benefit to lose now to win more later.

a valid argument that I have yet to see someone who embraces tanking debate successfully.

Re: EMBRACE the TANK!!!
« Reply #62 on: December 28, 2014, 09:32:53 PM »

Offline freshinthehouse

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I don't see why it makes any sense to tank this year.

It's not good for the young players to learn bad habits.
We have a ton of first round picks coming to add to whatever the core of this team is. And NJ looks to be in serious decline as expected. We don't need to be bad when we have their picks.
We have a good bunch of assets already. Where does it end? We also are about to get cap room this summer.

Every move from here should be about improving the existing team right now. I think we are past the point where it's an obviously good benefit to lose now to win more later.

a valid argument that I have yet to see someone who embraces tanking debate successfully.

For me the argument would be that we don't have a good bunch of assets already.  This team has plenty of guys that could be solid rotation players on a decent team, but besides Smart, do we have anyone with legitimate all-star potential?  I don't think so.  We have no idea what will happen in Brooklyn.  The C's only have control over their own squad, and by doing a full rebuild they can all but assure they will have a lotto pick this year. 

Re: EMBRACE the TANK!!!
« Reply #63 on: December 28, 2014, 09:35:18 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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History has shown we do not want to have the fifth worst record. Is this not how we got worked in the last draft. Isnt it impossible to move up from #5? We need to bottom out and get the worst record or the bottom three.

There are a number of rim protectors in this draft!!!!
Not going to happen. We have 10 wins and this about how many Philly will get during the whole season (now they are at 4). NYK and Minny follow with 5 wins. We cannot compete with that.
C's had climbed to 10th worst record but have sunk to the 9th worst.

Indy and Charlotte look poised to pass the C's in the next 5 games which would push them to 7th worst.

Utah and the Lakers should pass them in the next 10 games which gets them to 5th worst. 

Detroit is playing better now that they've dumped Josh.  They're just 4 games behind the C's.  I would figure them to pass the C's in the next 20 games (probably less) or 25 at the latest.  C's then have 4th worst record.

If Minny gets everyone back healthy in the next 10 games (primarily Rubio and Pek), I could see them catching the C's before the end of the season. 

NY is the Bucks of this season -- grossly underperforming for the talent on the roster.  They aren't contenders but there's no way they should only have 5 wins so far this year, particularly with Melo healthy all season.  If they finally put it together, they could also catch the C's before the end of the season.

The only team in the league that is a clearcut inferior team to the C's is Philly.


Re: EMBRACE the TANK!!!
« Reply #64 on: December 28, 2014, 09:38:36 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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I don't see why it makes any sense to tank this year.

It's not good for the young players to learn bad habits.
We have a ton of first round picks coming to add to whatever the core of this team is. And NJ looks to be in serious decline as expected. We don't need to be bad when we have their picks.
We have a good bunch of assets already. Where does it end? We also are about to get cap room this summer.

Every move from here should be about improving the existing team right now. I think we are past the point where it's an obviously good benefit to lose now to win more later.

a valid argument that I have yet to see someone who embraces tanking debate successfully.

For me the argument would be that we don't have a good bunch of assets already.  This team has plenty of guys that could be solid rotation players on a decent team, but besides Smart, do we have anyone with legitimate all-star potential?  I don't think so.  We have no idea what will happen in Brooklyn.  The C's only have control over their own squad, and by doing a full rebuild they can all but assure they will have a lotto pick this year.

and that is the winning argument. You cannot depend on another team to tank for you. You have to do this yourself. I also do not understand why we think Smart is an all-star. You are not an all-star just because you were drafted 6th in the draft.

Re: EMBRACE the TANK!!!
« Reply #65 on: December 28, 2014, 09:41:47 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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I don't see why it makes any sense to tank this year.

It's not good for the young players to learn bad habits.
We have a ton of first round picks coming to add to whatever the core of this team is. And NJ looks to be in serious decline as expected. We don't need to be bad when we have their picks.
We have a good bunch of assets already. Where does it end? We also are about to get cap room this summer.

Every move from here should be about improving the existing team right now. I think we are past the point where it's an obviously good benefit to lose now to win more later.

a valid argument that I have yet to see someone who embraces tanking debate successfully.

For me the argument would be that we don't have a good bunch of assets already.  This team has plenty of guys that could be solid rotation players on a decent team, but besides Smart, do we have anyone with legitimate all-star potential?  I don't think so.  We have no idea what will happen in Brooklyn.  The C's only have control over their own squad, and by doing a full rebuild they can all but assure they will have a lotto pick this year. 
I'm not against trades that help the team get better but I don't think this roster as constructed is at much of a risk of overperforming, particularly without Rondo.


Re: EMBRACE the TANK!!!
« Reply #66 on: December 28, 2014, 10:15:56 PM »

Offline freshinthehouse

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I don't see why it makes any sense to tank this year.

It's not good for the young players to learn bad habits.
We have a ton of first round picks coming to add to whatever the core of this team is. And NJ looks to be in serious decline as expected. We don't need to be bad when we have their picks.
We have a good bunch of assets already. Where does it end? We also are about to get cap room this summer.

Every move from here should be about improving the existing team right now. I think we are past the point where it's an obviously good benefit to lose now to win more later.

a valid argument that I have yet to see someone who embraces tanking debate successfully.

For me the argument would be that we don't have a good bunch of assets already.  This team has plenty of guys that could be solid rotation players on a decent team, but besides Smart, do we have anyone with legitimate all-star potential?  I don't think so.  We have no idea what will happen in Brooklyn.  The C's only have control over their own squad, and by doing a full rebuild they can all but assure they will have a lotto pick this year.

and that is the winning argument. You cannot depend on another team to tank for you. You have to do this yourself. I also do not understand why we think Smart is an all-star. You are not an all-star just because you were drafted 6th in the draft.

I kind of worded that funny.  I'm not saying that Smart will be an all-star.  But I wouldn't be surprised if he did.  The rest of young guys would really surprise me if they developed into all-star caliber talent.

Re: EMBRACE the TANK!!!
« Reply #67 on: December 28, 2014, 10:22:02 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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partial credit for the tank-iriffic efforts needs to go to ownership as well. i am impressed with how they have been on board in a positive way with this. a lot of owners would not be as supportive and try to simply save money.

i think ownership should be given some credit for:

1. giving ainge the time to do what needs to be done to at least try to build right. they are not forcing him into premature, hasty, or ill advised moves just to make moves or fulfill immediate desires. they are letting ainge work a long term plan.

2. i am very impressed the owners still are spending money to try to improve even though the team is not winning. i think that a lot of owners would have tried to cut costs during a rebuild. this ownership was ok with taking on thornton's salary since it facilitated getting a draft pick and zeller.

i also think that ainge could have dumped bass' contract to save money and not get anything in return, except salary relief. that would be money in the owners pockets. instead, the owners are willing to pay bass in the hopes that danny can move him for something of value to the rebuild.

the celtics also didn't need to sign turner since they are not winning this year, with or without him. but, he MIGHT turn into a good player for the celtics, or be flipped for something valuable.

finally, they agreed to pay Stevens his hefty salary in a rebuilding situation. they could have just hired some mediocre coach at 1/3 the cost. the w/l needle wouldn't have shifted last year or this year. instead, the owners will pay a LOT of money to do the rebuild correctly and teach young players to be better players. THAT shouts "commitment" to me.

i am impressed with the ownership so far. they are putting money on the table for this rebuild and are being patient. if they can be patient with their money, so can i.  ;D
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Re: EMBRACE the TANK!!!
« Reply #68 on: December 28, 2014, 10:25:13 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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History has shown we do not want to have the fifth worst record. Is this not how we got worked in the last draft. Isnt it impossible to move up from #5? We need to bottom out and get the worst record or the bottom three.

There are a number of rim protectors in this draft!!!!
Not going to happen. We have 10 wins and this about how many Philly will get during the whole season (now they are at 4). NYK and Minny follow with 5 wins. We cannot compete with that.
C's had climbed to 10th worst record but have sunk to the 9th worst.

Indy and Charlotte look poised to pass the C's in the next 5 games which would push them to 7th worst.

Utah and the Lakers should pass them in the next 10 games which gets them to 5th worst. 

Detroit is playing better now that they've dumped Josh.  They're just 4 games behind the C's.  I would figure them to pass the C's in the next 20 games (probably less) or 25 at the latest.  C's then have 4th worst record.

If Minny gets everyone back healthy in the next 10 games (primarily Rubio and Pek), I could see them catching the C's before the end of the season. 

NY is the Bucks of this season -- grossly underperforming for the talent on the roster.  They aren't contenders but there's no way they should only have 5 wins so far this year, particularly with Melo healthy all season.  If they finally put it together, they could also catch the C's before the end of the season.

The only team in the league that is a clearcut inferior team to the C's is Philly.
love the argument and "optimism." if the celtics manage to finish with a record among the worst 5 in the nba and get a top five pick, i promise to buy a months supply of carrot sticks for your hampster.  ;D
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Re: EMBRACE the TANK!!!
« Reply #69 on: December 28, 2014, 10:31:43 PM »

Offline Al91

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No ......if that were DAs plan he was right there last year ....and screwed up.

I think The coach was not liking Rondo......and this was the vote Danny needed to get the owners ok .

We need a new GM

If Rondo was worth any more teams would be lining up to get him. The fact only 4 teams were in the running to throw together a trade for him speaks volumes. If you are going to be mad at Ainge be mad he didnt do this last year, dont be mad because he traded a professional basketblal player who cant even shoot 33% from the line.

I don't think the number of teams looking to trade for him means anything. The PG position is LOADED right now in the league. Who else do you expect to line up for a trade? SA, LAC, OKC, CLE, MEM, POR? There's six teams right there that have no reason to trade their PG and if I cared to use time I would list them all.
Long-form is far from dead, but please refrain from paragraph-laden posts! Who wants to read that?!

Re: EMBRACE the TANK!!!
« Reply #70 on: December 28, 2014, 10:31:44 PM »

Offline freshinthehouse

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partial credit for the tank-iriffic efforts needs to go to ownership as well. i am impressed with how they have been on board in a positive way with this. a lot of owners would not be as supportive and try to simply save money.

i think ownership should be given some credit for:

1. giving ainge the time to do what needs to be done to at least try to build right. they are not forcing him into premature, hasty, or ill advised moves just to make moves or fulfill immediate desires. they are letting ainge work a long term plan.

2. i am very impressed the owners still are spending money to try to improve even though the team is not winning. i think that a lot of owners would have tried to cut costs during a rebuild. this ownership was ok with taking on thornton's salary since it facilitated getting a draft pick and zeller.

i also think that ainge could have dumped bass' contract to save money and not get anything in return, except salary relief. that would be money in the owners pockets. instead, the owners are willing to pay bass in the hopes that danny can move him for something of value to the rebuild.

the celtics also didn't need to sign turner since they are not winning this year, with or without him. but, he MIGHT turn into a good player for the celtics, or be flipped for something valuable.

finally, they agreed to pay Stevens his hefty salary in a rebuilding situation. they could have just hired some mediocre coach at 1/3 the cost. the w/l needle wouldn't have shifted last year or this year. instead, the owners will pay a LOT of money to do the rebuild correctly and teach young players to be better players. THAT shouts "commitment" to me.

i am impressed with the ownership so far. they are putting money on the table for this rebuild and are being patient. if they can be patient with their money, so can i.  ;D

TP+  Wyc and Co don't get enough credit.  Definitely one of the best ownership groups in the league.  Following a team with bad owners is the worst.  Players/coaches/GMs can all be fired/traded.  Bad owners are there until they finally decide to sell the team.  Thank goodness "Thanks Dad" Gaston decided to sell.  Those were some dark days.

Re: EMBRACE the TANK!!!
« Reply #71 on: December 28, 2014, 10:49:29 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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partial credit for the tank-iriffic efforts needs to go to ownership as well. i am impressed with how they have been on board in a positive way with this. a lot of owners would not be as supportive and try to simply save money.

i think ownership should be given some credit for:

1. giving ainge the time to do what needs to be done to at least try to build right. they are not forcing him into premature, hasty, or ill advised moves just to make moves or fulfill immediate desires. they are letting ainge work a long term plan.

2. i am very impressed the owners still are spending money to try to improve even though the team is not winning. i think that a lot of owners would have tried to cut costs during a rebuild. this ownership was ok with taking on thornton's salary since it facilitated getting a draft pick and zeller.

i also think that ainge could have dumped bass' contract to save money and not get anything in return, except salary relief. that would be money in the owners pockets. instead, the owners are willing to pay bass in the hopes that danny can move him for something of value to the rebuild.

the celtics also didn't need to sign turner since they are not winning this year, with or without him. but, he MIGHT turn into a good player for the celtics, or be flipped for something valuable.

finally, they agreed to pay Stevens his hefty salary in a rebuilding situation. they could have just hired some mediocre coach at 1/3 the cost. the w/l needle wouldn't have shifted last year or this year. instead, the owners will pay a LOT of money to do the rebuild correctly and teach young players to be better players. THAT shouts "commitment" to me.

i am impressed with the ownership so far. they are putting money on the table for this rebuild and are being patient. if they can be patient with their money, so can i.  ;D

TP+  Wyc and Co don't get enough credit.  Definitely one of the best ownership groups in the league.  Following a team with bad owners is the worst.  Players/coaches/GMs can all be fired/traded.  Bad owners are there until they finally decide to sell the team.  Thank goodness "Thanks Dad" Gaston decided to sell.  Those were some dark days.
dark days indeed. even thinking about gaston depresses me. wyc is a blessing.
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Re: EMBRACE the TANK!!!
« Reply #72 on: December 29, 2014, 12:33:50 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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I am becoming resigned to the tank.  I will never embrace it. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: EMBRACE the TANK!!!
« Reply #73 on: December 29, 2014, 11:14:39 AM »

Offline DesertDweller

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History has shown we do not want to have the fifth worst record. Is this not how we got worked in the last draft. Isnt it impossible to move up from #5? We need to bottom out and get the worst record or the bottom three.

There are a number of rim protectors in this draft!!!!
I really like the top 6 players in the draft
1. Okafor
2. Towns
3. Mudiay
4. WCS
5. Winslow
6. Johnson

if we can get into the top 6 i'll be happy

Out of these six you can bet three are busts so you're willing to trust Danny and the Celtics front office with picking us the winner, GOOD LUCK!!!  and all you tankers are trying to sell us that this is the easiest way to get to the top the fastest. wahahahahahaha!!!

Re: EMBRACE the TANK!!!
« Reply #74 on: December 29, 2014, 11:54:40 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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History has shown we do not want to have the fifth worst record. Is this not how we got worked in the last draft. Isnt it impossible to move up from #5? We need to bottom out and get the worst record or the bottom three.

There are a number of rim protectors in this draft!!!!
Not going to happen. We have 10 wins and this about how many Philly will get during the whole season (now they are at 4). NYK and Minny follow with 5 wins. We cannot compete with that.
C's had climbed to 10th worst record but have sunk to the 9th worst.

Indy and Charlotte look poised to pass the C's in the next 5 games which would push them to 7th worst.

Utah and the Lakers should pass them in the next 10 games which gets them to 5th worst. 

Detroit is playing better now that they've dumped Josh.  They're just 4 games behind the C's.  I would figure them to pass the C's in the next 20 games (probably less) or 25 at the latest.  C's then have 4th worst record.

If Minny gets everyone back healthy in the next 10 games (primarily Rubio and Pek), I could see them catching the C's before the end of the season. 

NY is the Bucks of this season -- grossly underperforming for the talent on the roster.  They aren't contenders but there's no way they should only have 5 wins so far this year, particularly with Melo healthy all season.  If they finally put it together, they could also catch the C's before the end of the season.

The only team in the league that is a clearcut inferior team to the C's is Philly.
love the argument and "optimism." if the celtics manage to finish with a record among the worst 5 in the nba and get a top five pick, i promise to buy a months supply of carrot sticks for your hampster.  ;D
tbh, he loves TPs more than carrot sticks ;)