Author Topic: jeff green is gone right?  (Read 12414 times)

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Re: jeff green is gone right?
« Reply #60 on: December 20, 2014, 04:13:59 PM »

Offline TheFlex

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so what can we get for jeff green?
This is another reason Ainge has made a horrid mistake. He has set the market for himself. There is no reason any team should have to offer more than a second rounder and some horrible players for J Green now.

Realistically if you are another GM and you need or want Jeff G why would offer anything similar to a fair deal for him now? Do the Celts give you the impression they won't let go of something for fair value? Do they give you the impression they are trying to improve their team in the near future? Do they give you the impression they value somewhat productive players that aren't on rookie deals?

Or do they give the impression that "everything must go!"

Ainge has given every GM in the league permission to walk up to his yard sale, pick the thing up, shake it, and say ....."Uhhh. I'll give you a dollar for it. I only have a dollar and a half on me and I gotta take the bus back".

I think the rub Ainge has offered us on the Rondo market was that we were going to lose him anyhow and this is the best we could (and it beats getting nothing when he walks as a FA).  Green is signed through next year.
Then lose him. Don't take garbage for him. At some point I will likely expand on this, but essentially you have to say to the player "Fine. Go ahead and try to get what you want to be paid from a team that is under the cap that wants you and that you want to play for. Or make more money here. Go ahead. Have fun with that."
and you have to tell teams like the Mavs "oh you want to try to make a deep playoff run? You want to try to win a ring? Ok, well take your crud deal and shove it and try to stand in line and win the Rondo sweepstakes in the offseason. You make him your offer, and we'll offer him more money and we'll see where he goes. I mean I hear you have some rivals that sorta want a pg too and hey we can all give it a shot and see what happens. Personally I like my odds and not yours but we're allowed to have a difference of opinion".
But you sure as heck don't give a guy like Rondo away for some crud players and picks and shrug your shoulders like a loser and say "Hey it was the best I could do".

Settling is something some woman does that just really really wants to get married and is living with her parents and hasn't been asked out in two years. It's not something an NBA GM does.

Problem is he likely wouldn't make more money here because Ainge rightly would not have paid him what Dallas or the Lakers seem to be willing to pay.


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Re: jeff green is gone right?
« Reply #61 on: December 20, 2014, 04:16:59 PM »

Offline Eja117

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so what can we get for jeff green?
This is another reason Ainge has made a horrid mistake. He has set the market for himself. There is no reason any team should have to offer more than a second rounder and some horrible players for J Green now.

Realistically if you are another GM and you need or want Jeff G why would offer anything similar to a fair deal for him now? Do the Celts give you the impression they won't let go of something for fair value? Do they give you the impression they are trying to improve their team in the near future? Do they give you the impression they value somewhat productive players that aren't on rookie deals?

Or do they give the impression that "everything must go!"

Ainge has given every GM in the league permission to walk up to his yard sale, pick the thing up, shake it, and say ....."Uhhh. I'll give you a dollar for it. I only have a dollar and a half on me and I gotta take the bus back".

I think the rub Ainge has offered us on the Rondo market was that we were going to lose him anyhow and this is the best we could (and it beats getting nothing when he walks as a FA).  Green is signed through next year.
Then lose him. Don't take garbage for him. At some point I will likely expand on this, but essentially you have to say to the player "Fine. Go ahead and try to get what you want to be paid from a team that is under the cap that wants you and that you want to play for. Or make more money here. Go ahead. Have fun with that."
and you have to tell teams like the Mavs "oh you want to try to make a deep playoff run? You want to try to win a ring? Ok, well take your crud deal and shove it and try to stand in line and win the Rondo sweepstakes in the offseason. You make him your offer, and we'll offer him more money and we'll see where he goes. I mean I hear you have some rivals that sorta want a pg too and hey we can all give it a shot and see what happens. Personally I like my odds and not yours but we're allowed to have a difference of opinion".
But you sure as heck don't give a guy like Rondo away for some crud players and picks and shrug your shoulders like a loser and say "Hey it was the best I could do".

Settling is something some woman does that just really really wants to get married and is living with her parents and hasn't been asked out in two years. It's not something an NBA GM does.

Problem is he likely wouldn't make more money here because Ainge rightly would not have paid him what Dallas or the Lakers seem to be willing to pay.
Which brings me to a whole nother issue.....let him hit the free market. If he's so horrid then nobody will make him a good offer and he comes back here to be the back up to the great Marcus Smart or move Smart over to sg.

if he's just so undesireable then we had all the leverage over him and could have just kept him for not much. Free agents would still be interested in coming here. We'd be in a good cap situation. Instead we got a bunch of worthless assets.

Re: jeff green is gone right?
« Reply #62 on: December 20, 2014, 04:30:31 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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so what can we get for jeff green?
This is another reason Ainge has made a horrid mistake. He has set the market for himself. There is no reason any team should have to offer more than a second rounder and some horrible players for J Green now.

Realistically if you are another GM and you need or want Jeff G why would offer anything similar to a fair deal for him now? Do the Celts give you the impression they won't let go of something for fair value? Do they give you the impression they are trying to improve their team in the near future? Do they give you the impression they value somewhat productive players that aren't on rookie deals?

Or do they give the impression that "everything must go!"

Ainge has given every GM in the league permission to walk up to his yard sale, pick the thing up, shake it, and say ....."Uhhh. I'll give you a dollar for it. I only have a dollar and a half on me and I gotta take the bus back".

I think the rub Ainge has offered us on the Rondo market was that we were going to lose him anyhow and this is the best we could (and it beats getting nothing when he walks as a FA).  Green is signed through next year.
Green has a player option and he's probably going to opt out and test FA with the way he is playing.

aha

thanks

The wrinkle with that is that the salary cap is set to rise substantially for 2016-17. Many players (like Lebron) have set themselves up to re-sign immediately after then.

If Green's confident enough in his ability to maintain his value, he might opt in, thereby coming up for a new contract with the higher cap. It could mean a huge bump in pay.

I think the odds of that happening are not super-high, but it's worth thinking about in terms of his trade value.

Re: jeff green is gone right?
« Reply #63 on: December 20, 2014, 04:39:35 PM »

Offline blink

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so what can we get for jeff green?
This is another reason Ainge has made a horrid mistake. He has set the market for himself. There is no reason any team should have to offer more than a second rounder and some horrible players for J Green now.

Realistically if you are another GM and you need or want Jeff G why would offer anything similar to a fair deal for him now? Do the Celts give you the impression they won't let go of something for fair value? Do they give you the impression they are trying to improve their team in the near future? Do they give you the impression they value somewhat productive players that aren't on rookie deals?

Or do they give the impression that "everything must go!"

Ainge has given every GM in the league permission to walk up to his yard sale, pick the thing up, shake it, and say ....."Uhhh. I'll give you a dollar for it. I only have a dollar and a half on me and I gotta take the bus back".

I think the rub Ainge has offered us on the Rondo market was that we were going to lose him anyhow and this is the best we could (and it beats getting nothing when he walks as a FA).  Green is signed through next year.
Green has a player option and he's probably going to opt out and test FA with the way he is playing.

aha

thanks

The wrinkle with that is that the salary cap is set to rise substantially for 2016-17. Many players (like Lebron) have set themselves up to re-sign immediately after then.

If Green's confident enough in his ability to maintain his value, he might opt in, thereby coming up for a new contract with the higher cap. It could mean a huge bump in pay.

I think the odds of that happening are not super-high, but it's worth thinking about in terms of his trade value.

Well it would be a calculated risk for Green.  An injury at the wrong time could cost him a whole lot of money if he gambles and waits until 2016.   His stock is probably at an all time high right now.  I can't see how he doesn't opt out.

That is probably why there are so many trade rumors about him right now.

On Wednesday, Yahoo Sports' Adrian Wojnarowski and Marc Spears reported what the Celtics might be looking for in a potential Green deal:
"Boston has been consistently shopping forward Jeff Green, trying to acquire a package that includes a first-round draft pick, sources said."

It's not like DA is shooting them down or confirming them, but there is this:

Scott Souza ?@scott_souza?
?#Celtics? Danny Ainge on possible deals for Brandon Bass, Jeff Green: let's take deep breath, enjoy holidays ... But anticipate calls.

Re: jeff green is gone right?
« Reply #64 on: December 20, 2014, 04:56:25 PM »

Offline CsBanner18

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so what can we get for jeff green?
This is another reason Ainge has made a horrid mistake. He has set the market for himself. There is no reason any team should have to offer more than a second rounder and some horrible players for J Green now.

Realistically if you are another GM and you need or want Jeff G why would offer anything similar to a fair deal for him now? Do the Celts give you the impression they won't let go of something for fair value? Do they give you the impression they are trying to improve their team in the near future? Do they give you the impression they value somewhat productive players that aren't on rookie deals?

Or do they give the impression that "everything must go!"

Ainge has given every GM in the league permission to walk up to his yard sale, pick the thing up, shake it, and say ....."Uhhh. I'll give you a dollar for it. I only have a dollar and a half on me and I gotta take the bus back".

I think the rub Ainge has offered us on the Rondo market was that we were going to lose him anyhow and this is the best we could (and it beats getting nothing when he walks as a FA).  Green is signed through next year.
Then lose him. Don't take garbage for him. At some point I will likely expand on this, but essentially you have to say to the player "Fine. Go ahead and try to get what you want to be paid from a team that is under the cap that wants you and that you want to play for. Or make more money here. Go ahead. Have fun with that."
and you have to tell teams like the Mavs "oh you want to try to make a deep playoff run? You want to try to win a ring? Ok, well take your crud deal and shove it and try to stand in line and win the Rondo sweepstakes in the offseason. You make him your offer, and we'll offer him more money and we'll see where he goes. I mean I hear you have some rivals that sorta want a pg too and hey we can all give it a shot and see what happens. Personally I like my odds and not yours but we're allowed to have a difference of opinion".
But you sure as heck don't give a guy like Rondo away for some crud players and picks and shrug your shoulders like a loser and say "Hey it was the best I could do".

Settling is something some woman does that just really really wants to get married and is living with her parents and hasn't been asked out in two years. It's not something an NBA GM does.

Ainge waited too long. Rondo wasn't going to re sign with us. Rondo said in his introductory press conference that we wants more rings NOW and a parade. That's what Dallas could bring him. That's what Houston was trying to sell him on. I believe he had every intention to explore Free Agency and was ultimately going leave barring a trade that made Boston contenders. I think Ainge knew that, and believes in Smart so he just settled for the Dallas offer. Not what I expected in return for Rondo either, but that's what happens when 15-20 out of 30 teams have their starting PG and don't want to trade for Rondo. Out of the 10-15 or so teams that need Rondo, only teams like LA, NY (Knicks), Houston, Dallas, and Sacramento thought their team would be good enough to entice Rondo. Rondo would've said he has no interest re signing with the SAC, as well as LA & NY because their teams aren't near contention right now. He would say he's willing to sign an extension with Dallas and possibly Houston. Houston I'm sure wanted to keep their 2015 Pelicans pick and Terrence Jones. What they offered was likely a deal breaker and so Ainge accepted Dallas's offer.

What Ainge needs to do now is

1) Trade Nelson (has to be at the deadline)

2) Trade Bass

3) Try and move Thornton's expiring for at least a 2nd rounder instead of letting him walk (already have Bradley, Smart, Turner, Young that can play SG) or let it expire

4) Make a decision on if he's wants to keep Green long term (likely going to command 12-15 mil on his next contract). Green can opt out at this season's end and walk if he wants to. He could also opt into his final year worth 9.2 million and stay. He needs to see what Jeff's thoughts are on his future as a Celtic and discuss his contract. Either be prepared to pay him in the near future, or trade him at 28 while he's almost averaging 20ppg.

5) Look for any deals that could get us a great player at SG or Center. Trade Bradley if you find an upgrade. If we draft a good Center, package him with Olynyk OR Sully and future picks to get Drummond, that'd be ideal. A lot has to fall in place for that to happen but you see where I'm going. Package young players and assets for definite upgrades (particularly at SG or C).

Re: jeff green is gone right?
« Reply #65 on: December 20, 2014, 05:01:55 PM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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if i'm a team looking to acquire jeff green and just saw the celtics trade their best player for nothing my offer wouldn't be much.

Re: jeff green is gone right?
« Reply #66 on: December 20, 2014, 05:10:20 PM »

Offline blink

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if i'm a team looking to acquire jeff green and just saw the celtics trade their best player for nothing my offer wouldn't be much.

that sounds pretty logical.  Green is actually in a somewhat similar position contract wise as Rondo.  Whomever is trading for Green knows that there is a good chance he might opt out of his current contract and you end up with a 1/2 year rental.  That can't be helping us in trying to get a good deal for him.

Re: jeff green is gone right?
« Reply #67 on: December 20, 2014, 05:14:46 PM »

Offline Eja117

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so what can we get for jeff green?
This is another reason Ainge has made a horrid mistake. He has set the market for himself. There is no reason any team should have to offer more than a second rounder and some horrible players for J Green now.

Realistically if you are another GM and you need or want Jeff G why would offer anything similar to a fair deal for him now? Do the Celts give you the impression they won't let go of something for fair value? Do they give you the impression they are trying to improve their team in the near future? Do they give you the impression they value somewhat productive players that aren't on rookie deals?

Or do they give the impression that "everything must go!"

Ainge has given every GM in the league permission to walk up to his yard sale, pick the thing up, shake it, and say ....."Uhhh. I'll give you a dollar for it. I only have a dollar and a half on me and I gotta take the bus back".

I think the rub Ainge has offered us on the Rondo market was that we were going to lose him anyhow and this is the best we could (and it beats getting nothing when he walks as a FA).  Green is signed through next year.
Then lose him. Don't take garbage for him. At some point I will likely expand on this, but essentially you have to say to the player "Fine. Go ahead and try to get what you want to be paid from a team that is under the cap that wants you and that you want to play for. Or make more money here. Go ahead. Have fun with that."
and you have to tell teams like the Mavs "oh you want to try to make a deep playoff run? You want to try to win a ring? Ok, well take your crud deal and shove it and try to stand in line and win the Rondo sweepstakes in the offseason. You make him your offer, and we'll offer him more money and we'll see where he goes. I mean I hear you have some rivals that sorta want a pg too and hey we can all give it a shot and see what happens. Personally I like my odds and not yours but we're allowed to have a difference of opinion".
But you sure as heck don't give a guy like Rondo away for some crud players and picks and shrug your shoulders like a loser and say "Hey it was the best I could do".

Settling is something some woman does that just really really wants to get married and is living with her parents and hasn't been asked out in two years. It's not something an NBA GM does.

Ainge waited too long. Rondo wasn't going to re sign with us. Rondo said in his introductory press conference that we wants more rings NOW and a parade. That's what Dallas could bring him. That's what Houston was trying to sell him on. I believe he had every intention to explore Free Agency and was ultimately going leave barring a trade that made Boston contenders. I think Ainge knew that, and believes in Smart so he just settled for the Dallas offer. Not what I expected in return for Rondo either, but that's what happens when 15-20 out of 30 teams have their starting PG and don't want to trade for Rondo. Out of the 10-15 or so teams that need Rondo, only teams like LA, NY (Knicks), Houston, Dallas, and Sacramento thought their team would be good enough to entice Rondo. Rondo would've said he has no interest re signing with the SAC, as well as LA & NY because their teams aren't near contention right now. He would say he's willing to sign an extension with Dallas and possibly Houston. Houston I'm sure wanted to keep their 2015 Pelicans pick and Terrence Jones. What they offered was likely a deal breaker and so Ainge accepted Dallas's offer.

What Ainge needs to do now is

1) Trade Nelson (has to be at the deadline)

2) Trade Bass

3) Try and move Thornton's expiring for at least a 2nd rounder instead of letting him walk (already have Bradley, Smart, Turner, Young that can play SG) or let it expire

4) Make a decision on if he's wants to keep Green long term (likely going to command 12-15 mil on his next contract). Green can opt out at this season's end and walk if he wants to. He could also opt into his final year worth 9.2 million and stay. He needs to see what Jeff's thoughts are on his future as a Celtic and discuss his contract. Either be prepared to pay him in the near future, or trade him at 28 while he's almost averaging 20ppg.

5) Look for any deals that could get us a great player at SG or Center. Trade Bradley if you find an upgrade. If we draft a good Center, package him with Olynyk OR Sully and future picks to get Drummond, that'd be ideal. A lot has to fall in place for that to happen but you see where I'm going. Package young players and assets for definite upgrades (particularly at SG or C).
Maybe I'm wrong, but it looks to me like next year the Rockets would have been about 4mill under the cap if they let P Bev walk.

The Mavs look to be about 16mill under the cap but if they want to keep their team together they have to split it up between Monta E, Tyson C, and Rondo.

Re: jeff green is gone right?
« Reply #68 on: December 20, 2014, 05:36:54 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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The Mavs look to be about 16mill under the cap but if they want to keep their team together they have to split it up between Monta E, Tyson C, and Rondo.

They have Bird rights on all those guys...they can exceed the cap to re-sign them.

Re: jeff green is gone right?
« Reply #69 on: December 20, 2014, 05:39:40 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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We are asking for a protected 1st and will likely settle for a 2nd. Green isn't going to last here. Which is a shame, because losing rondo doesn't really matter but losing green is going to make an impact.

Re: jeff green is gone right?
« Reply #70 on: December 20, 2014, 05:43:13 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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We are asking for a protected 1st and will likely settle for a 2nd. Green isn't going to last here. Which is a shame, because losing rondo doesn't really matter but losing green is going to make an impact.

What makes his potential loss easier is knowing that this draft is especially strong at our two biggest holes, center and sf (should Green be traded).

Re: jeff green is gone right?
« Reply #71 on: December 20, 2014, 06:09:45 PM »

Offline CsBanner18

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 Maybe I'm wrong, but it looks to me like next year the Rockets would have been about 4mill under the cap if they let P Bev walk.

The Mavs look to be about 16mill under the cap but if they want to keep their team together they have to split it up between Monta E, Tyson C, and Rondo.
[/quote]

Houston could've made an offer for Rondo in FA. But in order to trade for him now, they would've had to give up expirings and assets. Its likely they didn't want to give up much of anything to get Rondo.

Tyson Chandler is making 14.8 mil this year. His contract is set to expire. Dallas could try and resign him for a little less. Would've also had Wright expiring as well a Crowder. Nelson likely would've opted out w/ Felton, Harris having long term deals and Rondo being courted as the starting PG. Probably would've had enough $$$ to entice Rondo to sign. If for whatever reason they don't have enough to sign Rondo, then he could walk. That would make us the winners of the trade. Most likely he re signs with Dallas.

Point is whether to Dallas or Houston, Rondo was most likely leaving for nothing.

Re: jeff green is gone right?
« Reply #72 on: December 21, 2014, 09:27:31 AM »

Offline Eja117

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The Mavs look to be about 16mill under the cap but if they want to keep their team together they have to split it up between Monta E, Tyson C, and Rondo.

They have Bird rights on all those guys...they can exceed the cap to re-sign them.
Right, but if we hadn't traded Rondo to them then they wouldn't have bird rights on him to do that