How Bad Does Sullinger Have to Play Before People Want to Bench Him?

[clover]

The fact is we have two poor defensive power forwards, that have similar skill sets. Both can't jump, or are very athletic, or can defend the rim or play D.
Both pass well, handle the ball, and score fairly well. Both are similar in age and experience. Both have more up side remaining.
One of these young PF we have should go. So this organization can bring in a defensive minded, rim protecting, power forward that can blend with the remaining offensive minded PF we have remaining. (An Ed Davis type or better)
Naturally we also need a solid center to build a front line that isn't so helpless defending the rim.

I heartily concur +1 TP

I think we are starting him so we can move him.

I'm hoping so.

[Rondo9]

The fact is we have two poor defensive power forwards, that have similar skill sets. Both can't jump, or are very athletic, or can defend the rim or play D.
Both pass well, handle the ball, and score fairly well. Both are similar in age and experience. Both have more up side remaining.
One of these young PF we have should go. So this organization can bring in a defensive minded, rim protecting, power forward that can blend with the remaining offensive minded PF we have remaining. (An Ed Davis type or better)
Naturally we also need a solid center to build a front line that isn't so helpless defending the rim.

I heartily concur +1 TP

I think we are starting him so we can move him.

I'm hoping so.

Or keep him. Ed Davis? Seriously?

[kozlodoev]

Ed Davis is horrible. Really.

[PickNRoll]

Ed Davis is horrible. Really.

Per 36:

Ed Davis: 11 points, 11 rebounds (4 offensive) and 2 blocks on 61% shooting
Sully: 17 points, 10.5 rebounds (3 offensive) and 0.8 blocks on 44% shooting (49%efg)

[Fafnir]

Ed Davis is horrible. Really.

Per 36:

Ed Davis: 11 points, 11 rebounds (4 offensive) and 2 blocks on 61% shooting
Sully: 17 points, 10.5 rebounds (3 offensive) and 0.8 blocks on 44% shooting (49%efg)

He's good in the Kris Humphries way, he'll get his stats if you play him.

[jambr380]

I really just want Sullinger to lose weight - like at least 20lbs. He may lose a rpg or so, but everything else will be much better - his lateral movement, his lift, perhaps even his jumpshot.

There are some very good players who have played at a near obese level, but I am willing to bet that all of them would have been better off getting themselves in great shape. I seriously just don't understand it - these guys get paid millions of dollars to play basketball for a living, but they can't stay on the elliptical an extra 20 minutes or stop stuffing their faces.

Sully gets more of a pass here on CB than anybody else on the team and [ironically] his problem is the most easily fixed.

[PickNRoll]

Ed Davis is horrible. Really.

Per 36:

Ed Davis: 11 points, 11 rebounds (4 offensive) and 2 blocks on 61% shooting
Sully: 17 points, 10.5 rebounds (3 offensive) and 0.8 blocks on 44% shooting (49%efg)

He's good in the Kris Humphries way, he'll get his stats if you play him.

I just don't see how Davis or Humphries are "horrible".  Davis does what's asked of him and he makes a million bucks a year.

[clover]

The fact is we have two poor defensive power forwards, that have similar skill sets. Both can't jump, or are very athletic, or can defend the rim or play D.
Both pass well, handle the ball, and score fairly well. Both are similar in age and experience. Both have more up side remaining.
One of these young PF we have should go. So this organization can bring in a defensive minded, rim protecting, power forward that can blend with the remaining offensive minded PF we have remaining. (An Ed Davis type or better)
Naturally we also need a solid center to build a front line that isn't so helpless defending the rim.

I heartily concur +1 TP

I think we are starting him so we can move him.

I'm hoping so.

Or keep him. Ed Davis? Seriously?

Yeah, I didn't actually read the full initial quote. I want to keep KO over Sully and see Sully packaged with picks to bring in another starter.

[td450]

A slump of bad play has you diagnosed as bipolar  ?

Mostly scores around the rim? He's taking 3.4 3s per game! Only 28% of his shots have been within 3 feet of the hoop.

Tyler Zeller is at 60% of his FGA from within 3 feet fo the hoop to provide a comparison.

Not a slump of bad play. There are a lot of guys on this team that are inconsistent. They look frustrated. As I said, he looks defeated. He is playing with less emotion. He had the same cycles last year.  He has looked like he has gained weight DURING the season both years he has played. He looks significantly different when he is playing well.

I probably shouldn't have said he mostly scores around the rim.  But that is the part of his game that has the most promise. He's a pretty mediocre shooter. He has stretches where he is very effective at finishing around the rim. But then he goes a bunch of games where his balance is poor and he makes sloppy moves, and his percentages plummet.

[GreenWarrior]

In his last four games, Jared Sullinger has scored 5, 5, 0, and 5 points on a combined 6-31 shooting (19.4%).

Now, I don't think he should be benched, but if Jeff Green had put up those numbers, you'd have posters saying to give James Young a shot.  If Avery Bradley did that, you'd have multiple threads clamoring to free Marcus Smart.  (I wouldn't want to bench Green or Bradley if they had a run of bad games, either, because I'm not a SVG-level master of panic.)

I don't think the Celtics have to trade Sullinger, but he's not a definite piece of the puzzle.  He's never going to be good enough to be the best player on a contender.  He probably won't be good enough to be the third-best player on a contender.  I don't really see him ever being an All-Star.  Honestly, I don't think it is a lock that a healthy Sullinger will be a NBA starter five years from now.  I'm not sure he'll be worth the contract that he will get when he reaches free agency.

I just think posters give Sullinger more benefit of the doubt than they give to other players.  Why are people unfair in that regard?

not me. I've said all along what's wrong with every player on this team including Sully. his problem is 3 pt. shooting - it's not him. same crap with Antoine if he's not shooting the 3 well then the rest of his game goes in the crapper.

sully should be a 15' jump shooter at most. it seems every yr. sully's hittin a wall, & every yr. it starts with not being able to hit 3's.

[Rondo9]

In his last four games, Jared Sullinger has scored 5, 5, 0, and 5 points on a combined 6-31 shooting (19.4%).

Now, I don't think he should be benched, but if Jeff Green had put up those numbers, you'd have posters saying to give James Young a shot.  If Avery Bradley did that, you'd have multiple threads clamoring to free Marcus Smart.  (I wouldn't want to bench Green or Bradley if they had a run of bad games, either, because I'm not a SVG-level master of panic.)

I don't think the Celtics have to trade Sullinger, but he's not a definite piece of the puzzle.  He's never going to be good enough to be the best player on a contender.  He probably won't be good enough to be the third-best player on a contender.  I don't really see him ever being an All-Star.  Honestly, I don't think it is a lock that a healthy Sullinger will be a NBA starter five years from now.  I'm not sure he'll be worth the contract that he will get when he reaches free agency.

I just think posters give Sullinger more benefit of the doubt than they give to other players.  Why are people unfair in that regard?

not me. I've said all along what's wrong with every player on this team including Sully. his problem is 3 pt. shooting - it's not him. same crap with Antoine if he's not shooting the 3 well then the rest of his game goes in the crapper.

sully should be a 15' jump shooter at most. it seems every yr. sully's hittin a wall, & every yr. it starts with not being able to hit 3's.

But Sullinger hasn't taken 5 threes a game.

[Vermont Green]

To start the year, Sullinger had a streak of 16 of 17 games with double figure scoring (the one off game he had 9 pts).  Now he has had 4 games of 5-5-0-5 as noted above.

Something is probably wrong (injury) when there is that kind of change.  There could be something that defenses have figured out but I kind of doubt that.

If he is hurt, they should "bench" him and let him get right.  Let Powell play a couple of games.  Confidence is a very tricky thing so you don't want to mess with it too much but the problem is that either benching or having play with injury could affect confidence.

[PickNRoll]

A slump of bad play has you diagnosed as bipolar  ?

Mostly scores around the rim? He's taking 3.4 3s per game! Only 28% of his shots have been within 3 feet of the hoop.

Tyler Zeller is at 60% of his FGA from within 3 feet fo the hoop to provide a comparison.

Not a slump of bad play. There are a lot of guys on this team that are inconsistent. They look frustrated. As I said, he looks defeated. He is playing with less emotion. He had the same cycles last year.  He has looked like he has gained weight DURING the season both years he has played. He looks significantly different when he is playing well.

I probably shouldn't have said he mostly scores around the rim.  But that is the part of his game that has the most promise. He's a pretty mediocre shooter. He has stretches where he is very effective at finishing around the rim. But then he goes a bunch of games where his balance is poor and he makes sloppy moves, and his percentages plummet.

Sully's body language has sucked for a long time.  He's pouty unless he's knocking down 3's.

[LB3533]

This worry over Sully is to rash, the month of Dec is barely half over.

I feel the more significant focus should not be placed on Sully, intead should be placed on coach Brad Stevens and how he sporadically changes lineups or benches units. Stevens is still trying to learn what he's got and how what he's got plays well or poorly with different lineups etc.

There is no form of continuity with a quick trigger head coach.

Stick with Zeller as a starter, period. Don't give up Sully as a starter.

[Beat LA]

Prior the slump Sully was performing somewhere in between starting level PF and All-Star level PF.

All star in what league, NBA DL?   His D is horrible and was horrible in his player earlier in the year.

You want to know the reason for his slump.  He hangs out at the three point line most of the time.  He is trying to be something he is not, Kyle Korver.  Of course, it is less work than going inside.   He struggles against elite athletic ability and good length because of his athletic limitations and size.

He is shooting .37% from the field in December, yet is shooting .48% from three point land.  His PPG went down from 16.2 to 9.8 PPG.  His rebounds went from 8.8 RPG to 8.4 RPG.  His D was bad both times.   But trying to be something your not, hurts one's game.   It can be weapon, the three point shot, but when it is a sole weapon, it is easier to guard and teams can adapt.   

Other teams never had had to double him.  Usually good players demand double teams or and all star something even triple teams.   All they have to do to Sully is put a tall guy on him, doesn't have to be a mobile big, because he is slower than concrete, and the big will be able to bother his jumper.   Downlow with his rump, and that jump hook he can still score.   I think he has shot so many threes though that it has changed his normal shot.   What used to be a good mid range is now spotty.

We are never going to win with him, at a high level as a starter.

All of our players are complete garbage. Sully is showing that he is trash. KO has a good offensive game from time to time but he has no future as a starter in the NBA. Smart can't even stay healthy, Rondo has clearly stopped caring at this point, Bradley sucks at shooting the 3 but he takes a million of them a day.

We are screwed. There is no future for this team at all

Being from Ohio and having seen a lot more OSU games than the lot of you.   I have known Sully's faults a lot better and I was against us drafting him.  He came into the league a skilled player but his athletic upside is small.   In some ways, KO is the same kind of guy, skilled but limited.   Both of these guys do not seem to be really mentally tough, a slump kills their confidence and last a long time and you can never build around guys that weak in the head.   

I think all is not lost.   I think Smart's play style is a lot like Crash's and he will get dinged up a lot because he throws his body around and plays hard.   I think we have some good backups on the team.   KO and Sully, are poor defenders but both would be decent backups and ditto for Bradley.   We just need to land a wing or SG that can score, a starting caliber C who can D and a lot of our problems would be less magnified.

We have a lot of picks coming up if we can get an athletic big men and a scorer, I for one think it will help a lot.   A good C could hide a lot of the Concrete Galoshes Brothers (Sully and KO) problems.  But I think they are pieces and not building blocks.

Ditto, TP.  At the spot where we selected him in the draft, you practically had to take him because of his talent, but once I heard that he had back problems, I thought, "great.  Nice going, Ainge (sarcasm)," but he surprised me with his play during his rookie year until he got hurt.  To me, his back problems are directly related to his weight issues, as is the case for a lot of people, so the fact that he can't be proactive and shed the pounds is kind of alarming, imo.  Should we send him a dvd of Tae-bo, lol?   My question is why does Danny continue to draft players with weight concerns?  Nothing good has ever comes from this.  Look at Big Baby - he was having a great season in 2010-11 until he fired his chef, and then contributed absolutely NOTHING in the playoffs.  Ugh.  I wish that we had had signed Bass instead of resigning that knucklehead, but I digress .

I also don't understand why Sullinger, never mind Olynyk, NEVER PLAYS INSIDE.  It is beyond frustrating to watch, and I don't care if it's a style of play-thing - get dat bootay down on da block, lol , where you belong.  Sully's showed that he can score down there, so why is he taking threes?  Seriously, why?  In the end, I agree with you - neither one of these guys is a building block.  We might as well trade Sully for Randle, start Powell, lol , and drop the billy goat off at supercuts and never come back for him, haha .  We should also look into guys in the d-league, because, honestly, we have absolutely nothing to lose at this point.  Ugh.