Author Topic: [IDEA] Rondo for Luol Deng?  (Read 4499 times)

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Re: [IDEA] Rondo for Luol Deng?
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2014, 09:57:24 PM »

Offline jaketwice

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But aren't there good odds he goes there anyway? What's a more logical destination for him (assuming he becomes a free agent and can play wherever he wants)?

NYK and LAL.

The triangle has a scoring PG, and he doesn't have a jump shot. So he won't go to the Knicks (Derek Fisher as coach of Rondo?). LA is going to be horrible even longer than we are.

Re: [IDEA] Rondo for Luol Deng?
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2014, 10:04:56 PM »

Offline BballTim

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How does this suggestion make us better?

We're trading our starting point guard for a second small forward, which doesn't seem to help our roster balance any.

So when I come up with a trade idea, I always think: what would get us closest to title contention fastest. The recipe for title contention seems to be: three great players, and at least two of the following: (a) great defense; (b) an amazing rookie; (c) a terrific bench.

Rondo is not a part of that calculus, for us - because he will depart in free agency anyway. We have too many players, and will soon have to consolidate: many so-so players and draft picks for one much better player. Deng and Henson help us with (c) insofar as they provide a better bench.

We can't field a team with Olynyk, Sullinger, Zeller, Smart, Bradley, Green and Young and really do anything. Of those, only Smart and Young really have potential to be great players. And they won't do that unless they are surrounded by some smart veterans. It's no accident that players without role models early in their careers don't end up being successful players: Pervis Ellison never really played with anyone good; Derrick Coleman learned at the heels of Mookie Blaylock, and the "technician" Jed Bueschler.

None of our guys will develop without leadership (which Walter McCarty is not going to provide). And Jeff Green is not going to develop. He is the player he is: wildly inconsistent.

Deng is more than just an "asset" he's a guy who knows how to play. And - he's a guy other guys want to play with. If you want to Joakim Noah - you've got a way better shot with Deng on the team. A long range plan requires guidance for the youngsters.

  There's no evidence Rondo is leaving.

  Ellison was a good player with serious injury issues. Did you ever see him play?

  Also, the younger players frequently talk about Rondo being a leader and mentoring them.

Re: [IDEA] Rondo for Luol Deng?
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2014, 10:06:38 PM »

Offline Eja117

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It is I!

Jaketwice, forum poster since 2007, back with another GRRRREEAT trade idea! Don't get me wrong, I love Rondo - but the national media has said we need to trade him. :'( So here's my idea:

Rajon Rondo for Luol "the true professional" Deng. Ideally, the trade would work like this (can't make it happen on trade machine due to free agent issue).

Rondo - > Miami Heat
Deng - > Celtics
Norris Cole - > Milwaukee Buck
John Henson - > Celtics

I think it makes sense for all involved. I DEFY you to disagree!
This is one of those things where maybe I need to see the money deal

Re: [IDEA] Rondo for Luol Deng?
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2014, 01:10:08 PM »

Offline jaketwice

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How does this suggestion make us better?

We're trading our starting point guard for a second small forward, which doesn't seem to help our roster balance any.

So when I come up with a trade idea, I always think: what would get us closest to title contention fastest. The recipe for title contention seems to be: three great players, and at least two of the following: (a) great defense; (b) an amazing rookie; (c) a terrific bench.

Rondo is not a part of that calculus, for us - because he will depart in free agency anyway. We have too many players, and will soon have to consolidate: many so-so players and draft picks for one much better player. Deng and Henson help us with (c) insofar as they provide a better bench.

We can't field a team with Olynyk, Sullinger, Zeller, Smart, Bradley, Green and Young and really do anything. Of those, only Smart and Young really have potential to be great players. And they won't do that unless they are surrounded by some smart veterans. It's no accident that players without role models early in their careers don't end up being successful players: Pervis Ellison never really played with anyone good; Derrick Coleman learned at the heels of Mookie Blaylock, and the "technician" Jed Bueschler.

None of our guys will develop without leadership (which Walter McCarty is not going to provide). And Jeff Green is not going to develop. He is the player he is: wildly inconsistent.

Deng is more than just an "asset" he's a guy who knows how to play. And - he's a guy other guys want to play with. If you want to Joakim Noah - you've got a way better shot with Deng on the team. A long range plan requires guidance for the youngsters.

  There's no evidence Rondo is leaving.

  Ellison was a good player with serious injury issues. Did you ever see him play?

  Also, the younger players frequently talk about Rondo being a leader and mentoring them.

There are many media stories suggesting he will depart. The Celtics are not going to be good for a long time. The window on his career is closing. He is unlikely to get a max deal from the C's, will test the waters, and will have to end up somewhere paying him more. So - no - there is evidence he is leaving - or at least there is evidence sufficient to generate speculation as to what would happen if he left. ....moreover, this is a forum to discuss the Boston Celtics. If you disagree with a fundamental premise of the post that I - the amazing Jaketwice - created, then do not post in my thread - seems pointless to fight they hypo though, doesn't it?

With that, I think your suggestions that Rondo is mentoring the younger players are irrelevant. Or rather, that they are irrelevant except to the extent that they appear to tacitly support the premise that younger players should play with quality veterans so as to learn good habits. Pervis Ellison is not the point (and yes I did see him play) the point is the general premise (with which you appear to agree) that it is better for talent to be surrounded by veteran leadership.

As this is hardly a novel, or even very interesting point - I would be surprised if you disagreed.

Assuming Rondo is leaving (and it is fair to assume he is) we should move him before that happens. In exchange, we will not receive as good a player. So who would be a good player? What would be a fit?

I say, Deng and another young player is probably as good a replacement as we can get under the circumstances.

Re: [IDEA] Rondo for Luol Deng?
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2014, 01:19:09 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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There is no evidence of anything regarding Rondo's future. Only assertions that he will find somewhere else a better deal than the Celtics will give him. This is conjecture: no one knows what Ainge will offer him, and how that offer might compare to what other teams might be willing to pay.

If, however, we assume that Rondo is leaving, why is getting a mediocre asset better than letting him walk and using the resulting substantial cap space to improve the club via trade or free agency?

And before anyone trots out the old aphorism "When has a major FA come to Boston," think about the last time the Celtics had in excess of $12 million to offer a free agent. If Rondo leaves, that number could rise to over $30 million.
DKC League is now on reddit!: http://www.reddit.com/r/dkcleague

Re: [IDEA] Rondo for Luol Deng?
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2014, 01:22:03 PM »

Offline MBunge

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How does this suggestion make us better?

We're trading our starting point guard for a second small forward, which doesn't seem to help our roster balance any.

So when I come up with a trade idea, I always think: what would get us closest to title contention fastest. The recipe for title contention seems to be: three great players, and at least two of the following: (a) great defense; (b) an amazing rookie; (c) a terrific bench.

Rondo is not a part of that calculus, for us - because he will depart in free agency anyway. We have too many players, and will soon have to consolidate: many so-so players and draft picks for one much better player. Deng and Henson help us with (c) insofar as they provide a better bench.

We can't field a team with Olynyk, Sullinger, Zeller, Smart, Bradley, Green and Young and really do anything. Of those, only Smart and Young really have potential to be great players. And they won't do that unless they are surrounded by some smart veterans. It's no accident that players without role models early in their careers don't end up being successful players: Pervis Ellison never really played with anyone good; Derrick Coleman learned at the heels of Mookie Blaylock, and the "technician" Jed Bueschler.

None of our guys will develop without leadership (which Walter McCarty is not going to provide). And Jeff Green is not going to develop. He is the player he is: wildly inconsistent.

Deng is more than just an "asset" he's a guy who knows how to play. And - he's a guy other guys want to play with. If you want to Joakim Noah - you've got a way better shot with Deng on the team. A long range plan requires guidance for the youngsters.

  There's no evidence Rondo is leaving.

  Ellison was a good player with serious injury issues. Did you ever see him play?

  Also, the younger players frequently talk about Rondo being a leader and mentoring them.

There are many media stories suggesting he will depart. The Celtics are not going to be good for a long time. The window on his career is closing. He is unlikely to get a max deal from the C's, will test the waters, and will have to end up somewhere paying him more. So - no - there is evidence he is leaving - or at least there is evidence sufficient to generate speculation as to what would happen if he left.

Someone does not know what the word "evidence" means.

Mike

Re: [IDEA] Rondo for Luol Deng?
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2014, 01:44:34 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
There are many media stories suggesting he will depart. The Celtics are not going to be good for a long time. The window on his career is closing. He is unlikely to get a max deal from the C's, will test the waters, and will have to end up somewhere paying him more. So - no - there is evidence he is leaving - or at least there is evidence sufficient to generate speculation as to what would happen if he left.

I call BS!   Media stories about him leaving are largely speculation by the talking heads of ESPN.  It could happen but these guys throw out stuff and hope some of it sticks.   I have read a lot of interviews where they are talking to Rondo himself and he says he wants to stay.

http://www.nba.com/2014/news/09/29/rondo-celtics-media-day.ap/

Big difference between the "media" stories and interviews.

http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/rondo-i-love-being-celtic

Re: [IDEA] Rondo for Luol Deng?
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2014, 02:03:51 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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I've always loved Deng but this idea is complete malarkey.

Re: [IDEA] Rondo for Luol Deng?
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2014, 02:23:40 PM »

Offline puskas54_10

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I'm not a Rondo fan, but this trade is bad.
Deng is on his last legs. A couple years in Thibs grinding system and injuries took their toll on him.
Although if Ainge doesn't want to pay Rondo, then this could be an option.

Re: [IDEA] Rondo for Luol Deng?
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2014, 03:06:58 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Luol's got alooottta tread on those tires. if you're going to trade Rondo, get young talent / assets for him.
Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: [IDEA] Rondo for Luol Deng?
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2014, 03:26:17 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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It is I!

Jaketwice, forum poster since 2007, back with another GRRRREEAT trade idea! Don't get me wrong, I love Rondo - but the national media has said we need to trade him. :'( So here's my idea:

Rajon Rondo for Luol "the true professional" Deng. Ideally, the trade would work like this (can't make it happen on trade machine due to free agent issue).

Rondo - > Miami Heat
Deng - > Celtics
Norris Cole - > Milwaukee Buck
John Henson - > Celtics

I think it makes sense for all involved. I DEFY you to disagree!
Consider yourself defied.

trade stinks for the C's.   

Deng (duplicative of Green and IMHO, not as good as Green) and Henson (still just a prospect--not a sure thing) for Rondo (top-level PG despite his FT woes this year) is not a good trade.  Even if you thought this was a equal deal in terms of talent (I don't), it further unbalances the roster by getting rid of our only legit PG and adding yet another swing player and PF/C project (who really needs to fill out to further develop as a C)

As for the notion that Rondo is sure to leave and the C's need to trade him --> purely speculative poppycock spewed for the sake of the national media trying to create something to write about.
- Rondo likes playing in Boston
- Boston can offer the best contract both in terms of $ per year and # of years.

If Rondo was talking about leaving (he's only mentioned testing the market, not leaving, and that's just sound financial sense for him so that he can establish his value before resigning AND get that extra year at the increased salary rate that he wouldn't have gotten if he had resigned this past offseason), that would be a different story but he's yet to make those comments.  Senseless panic mode at this point


Re: [IDEA] Rondo for Luol Deng?
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2014, 05:25:32 PM »

Offline jaketwice

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Remember when you all told me that a Rondo trade was speculative and poppycock and all of these other things? Remember when you told me I didn't know what "evidence" meant, and that it was "pure speculation"?

I mean, okay, maybe it's not a great idea - it's not the first not-too-terrific trade idea to have been posted on Celticsblog. But what's with hammering me personally about it? "Someone doesn't know what evidence means". What kind of thing is that to say?

Yeah - the trade idea - labeled as an IDEA in the subject heading is speculation. Shocker. Why the hate?