Monroe is impressive. Trade proposal

[kozlodoev]

Monroe is "impressive". And then, there's this...

Monroe is a very good offensive player, but he’s a glaring liability on defense in a league getting smaller and quicker. He’s a turnstile trying to contain the pick-and-roll out on the floor — a mess of bad footwork, poor timing, lazy reaches, and bad choices. When Detroit has him hang back at the foul line, ball handlers can zip around him with an easy crossover or launch wide-open jumpers as Monroe, petrified at giving up a rim run, retreats a step farther than most bigs would dare — often with his arms down.
...
His off-ball defense is similarly unintuitive. Monroe wants to help and has a rudimentary sense of where he should be as the chess pieces move around the floor, but he’s unsure of himself and prone to fatal hesitations and bouts of confusion. He has struggled to develop any chemistry with his big-man partners, so that a lot of Detroit possessions end with late help rotations or both bigs chasing one opposing big man — each under the impression the other would be elsewhere on the floor.

http://grantland.com/features/josh-smith-future-detroit-pistons/

An instructive read, overall. It's somewhat dated, so perhaps he has improved. In any case, given that his max deal is in the neighborhood of 5, $60 mil, he may be one o few affordable options out there.

[Tr1boy]

Lol this train has derailed

While monroe might not sign here as FA(bc of many other offers to consider), he might sign and trade to play for us now.You can think of it as the celts coming in front of the line. He may not agree and this idea wont work but maybe he will. He is coming off the bench and is prob not happy about it

He can't sign now.   




And more importantly, he is not going to allow a trade that takes away his Bird rights.

Can you extend a QO? My quick scan of the Coon FAQ didn't say you couldn't, though the extension would be rather small.

Why cant he sign with the pistons and be traded to the celts?

Not an extension but something like favors, hayward got?

I dont get the feeling that he is greedy about money and wants to mainly get out of detroit.   

Celts have a better chance to sign and trade  for monroe vs bringing him during FA. You let that happen , green might not be here by then. Attempt to bring in monroe and you have a better chance to keep them for the long run

[Tr1boy]

Monroe is "impressive". And then, there's this...

Monroe is a very good offensive player, but he’s a glaring liability on defense in a league getting smaller and quicker. He’s a turnstile trying to contain the pick-and-roll out on the floor — a mess of bad footwork, poor timing, lazy reaches, and bad choices. When Detroit has him hang back at the foul line, ball handlers can zip around him with an easy crossover or launch wide-open jumpers as Monroe, petrified at giving up a rim run, retreats a step farther than most bigs would dare — often with his arms down.
...
His off-ball defense is similarly unintuitive. Monroe wants to help and has a rudimentary sense of where he should be as the chess pieces move around the floor, but he’s unsure of himself and prone to fatal hesitations and bouts of confusion. He has struggled to develop any chemistry with his big-man partners, so that a lot of Detroit possessions end with late help rotations or both bigs chasing one opposing big man — each under the impression the other would be elsewhere on the floor.

http://grantland.com/features/josh-smith-future-detroit-pistons/

An instructive read, overall.

He is playing out of position as a pf. Like i said, he is a better offensive player  near the post and better suited to defend/be physical vs guys like duncan then chase blake griffin around

[Fafnir]

Lol this train has derailed

While monroe might not sign here as FA(bc of many other offers to consider), he might sign and trade to play for us now.You can think of it as the celts coming in front of the line. He may not agree and this idea wont work but maybe he will. He is coming off the bench and is prob not happy about it

He can't sign now.   




And more importantly, he is not going to allow a trade that takes away his Bird rights.

Can you extend a QO? My quick scan of the Coon FAQ didn't say you couldn't, though the extension would be rather small.

Why cant he sign with the pistons and be traded to the celts?

Not an extension but something like favors, hayward got?

Because of the CBA

He signed the Qualifying Offer instead of an offer sheet or an extension offer. Thus he is no longer a RFA like he was during the offseason, that changes things.

[Fafnir]

Monroe is "impressive". And then, there's this...

Monroe is a very good offensive player, but he’s a glaring liability on defense in a league getting smaller and quicker. He’s a turnstile trying to contain the pick-and-roll out on the floor — a mess of bad footwork, poor timing, lazy reaches, and bad choices. When Detroit has him hang back at the foul line, ball handlers can zip around him with an easy crossover or launch wide-open jumpers as Monroe, petrified at giving up a rim run, retreats a step farther than most bigs would dare — often with his arms down.
...
His off-ball defense is similarly unintuitive. Monroe wants to help and has a rudimentary sense of where he should be as the chess pieces move around the floor, but he’s unsure of himself and prone to fatal hesitations and bouts of confusion. He has struggled to develop any chemistry with his big-man partners, so that a lot of Detroit possessions end with late help rotations or both bigs chasing one opposing big man — each under the impression the other would be elsewhere on the floor.

http://grantland.com/features/josh-smith-future-detroit-pistons/

An instructive read, overall.

He is playing out of position as a pf. Like i said, he is a better offensive player  near the post and better suited to defend/be physical vs guys like duncan then chase blake griffin around

Centers still run the pick and roll, so that's still a problem.

[rondohondo]

Lol this train has derailed

While monroe might not sign here as FA(bc of many other offers to consider), he might sign and trade to play for us now.You can think of it as the celts coming in front of the line. He may not agree and this idea wont work but maybe he will. He is coming off the bench and is prob not happy about it

He can't sign now.   




And more importantly, he is not going to allow a trade that takes away his Bird rights.

Can you extend a QO? My quick scan of the Coon FAQ didn't say you couldn't, though the extension would be rather small.

Why cant he sign with the pistons and be traded to the celts?

Not an extension but something like favors, hayward got?

I dont get the feeling that he is greedy about money and wants to mainly get out of detroit.   

Celts have a better chance to sign and trade  for monroe vs bringing him during FA. You let that happen , green might not be here by then. Attempt to bring in monroe and you have a better chance to keep them for the long run

There would be no better chance of s+t instead of signing him outright, he has to agree to come here either way.

and why would you want the celtics to s+t when they can sign him outright ? Just to get rid of Rondo ?

[Hawkeye199]

you could have him for Bass+Thornton and the Clippers pick.

And he's not that impressive, it's just our big men can't defend bigs with good foot work like him yet.

He's a 6'11" 250 lb 24 year old who has 3 years experience already.

He averages almost 10 rebounds and 2 assists in his career. And he can score against anybody. Monroe/Sully/KO/Zeller is a very young, formidable front court. And it takes longer for bigs to get their game together.

Thats just great except for the fact that  sully is better than monroe.
sully stats
PPG   RPG   BLKPG   PER
16.3   8.4   0.8   20.56


monroe stats
2014-15 Season
PPG   RPG   BLKPG   PER
14.4   9.4   0.2   17.81


Sully has a better PER, scores mor points blocks more and is a better defender. Defensively, Sullinger actually ranked well above average against both the pick-and-roll defender and roll man, according to Synergy, which no doubt earned him Brad Stevens' trust as the season went on. SCHOENE offers a mixed evaluation, though, and sees Sullinger as similar to Carlos Boozer and also Sean May. That's a wide range for a wide body. Sully is also two years younger and cheaper. Why would we give up so much for him?

Plus the front court gives the celtics no rim protector. We still need a defensive rim protecting center. Monroe is not that at all.  I like monroe but would not give up anything for him when I already have a better player who plays the same position.
My stats came from
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/4260/greg-monroe
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/player/hollinger/_/id/6624/jared-sullinger

[Tr1boy]

Lol this train has derailed

While monroe might not sign here as FA(bc of many other offers to consider), he might sign and trade to play for us now.You can think of it as the celts coming in front of the line. He may not agree and this idea wont work but maybe he will. He is coming off the bench and is prob not happy about it

He can't sign now.   




And more importantly, he is not going to allow a trade that takes away his Bird rights.

Can you extend a QO? My quick scan of the Coon FAQ didn't say you couldn't, though the extension would be rather small.

Why cant he sign with the pistons and be traded to the celts?

Not an extension but something like favors, hayward got?

Because of the CBA

He signed the Qualifying Offer instead of an offer sheet or an extension offer. Thus he is no longer a RFA like he was during the offseason, that changes things.

So if the pistons wanted to give him a 5 year 65 million dollar deal now, he cant sign it? Only a 2 year extension?

When can the pistons sign him like if he was a ufa

[Fafnir]

So if the pistons wanted to give him a 5 year 65 million dollar deal now, he cant sign it? Only a 2 year extension?

Yup. They might not even be able to do that, not sure if QOs have a special rule.

When can the pistons sign him like if he was a ufa

When he's an FA at the end of the season. Monroe isn't getting traded.

[Tr1boy]

So if the pistons wanted to give him a 5 year 65 million dollar deal now, he cant sign it? Only a 2 year extension?

Yup. They might not even be able to do that, not sure if QOs have a special rule.

When can the pistons sign him like if he was a ufa

When he's an FA at the end of the season. Monroe isn't getting traded.

Why would they keep him and lose him for nothing?

[rondohondo]

So if the pistons wanted to give him a 5 year 65 million dollar deal now, he cant sign it? Only a 2 year extension?

Yup. They might not even be able to do that, not sure if QOs have a special rule.

When can the pistons sign him like if he was a ufa

When he's an FA at the end of the season. Monroe isn't getting traded.

Why would they keep him and lose him for nothing?

They will definitely trade him before the deadline , likely to a contender , but that team will need to have cap space to re-sign him in the off-season , because without his bird rights they can't sign a player when they are near or over the salary cap .

Monroe likely commands 12-15mil per year, so a team would have to have that much cap space to sign him .

[kozlodoev]

Why would they keep him and lose him for nothing?

He has to agree to waive his Bird rights, so that means he has a de facto no-trade clause.

[Larry for 3]

you could have him for Bass+Thornton and the Clippers pick.

And he's not that impressive, it's just our big men can't defend bigs with good foot work like him yet.

He's a 6'11" 250 lb 24 year old who has 3 years experience already.

He averages almost 10 rebounds and 2 assists in his career. And he can score against anybody. Monroe/Sully/KO/Zeller is a very young, formidable front court. And it takes longer for bigs to get their game together.

Thats just great except for the fact that  sully is better than monroe.
sully stats
PPG   RPG   BLKPG   PER
16.3   8.4   0.8   20.56


monroe stats
2014-15 Season
PPG   RPG   BLKPG   PER
14.4   9.4   0.2   17.81


Sully has a better PER, scores mor points blocks more and is a better defender. Defensively, Sullinger actually ranked well above average against both the pick-and-roll defender and roll man, according to Synergy, which no doubt earned him Brad Stevens' trust as the season went on. SCHOENE offers a mixed evaluation, though, and sees Sullinger as similar to Carlos Boozer and also Sean May. That's a wide range for a wide body. Sully is also two years younger and cheaper. Why would we give up so much for him?

Plus the front court gives the celtics no rim protector. We still need a defensive rim protecting center. Monroe is not that at all.  I like monroe but would not give up anything for him when I already have a better player who plays the same position.
My stats came from
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/4260/greg-monroe
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/player/hollinger/_/id/6624/jared-sullinger

It's not really apples to apples, did you watch the game last night ? Monroe is playing with smith & Jennings,  2 black holes.  You saw what he did when SVG ran the offense through Monroe & got smith out of the game,  Sullinger to me is your first big guy off the bench , GM to me has more upside.  I'd have to see the trade first to see if what we give up is too much. We definitely should make a run @ him in offseason.

[kozlodoev]

It's not really apples to apples, did you watch the game last night ? Monroe is playing with smith & Jennings,  2 black holes.  You saw what he did when SVG ran the offense through Monroe & got smith out of the game,  Sullinger to me is your first big guy off the bench , GM to me has more upside.  I'd have to see the trade first to see if what we give up is too much. We definitely should make a run @ him in offseason.

LOL.

Smith and Jennings average 11 apg between the two of them. On a per-36 basis, Smith is taking 16 shots, Monroe is taking 14 shots, Jennings -- 15 shots. Even on per-game basis, the numbers are 15, 12, and 13 or something like that.

There is some serious "black-holing" going on there...

[mmmmm]

His one on one skills are hard to stop. Three pt plays after three pt plays. Kind of reminds me of big AL how he can score/fake/up and unders on you downlow. Good rebounder and overall a good player. He plays better as a Center. Pistons are in big trouble and should consider moving Monroe who has already indicated that he is not interested in signing a long term contract with them

To Pistons: Sullinger, Rondo, Thornton
To Celtics: Monroe, 1st round pick, and option to trade for higher 1st in the future, Jennings, Fillers (waive)

Trade Jennings for a 1st round pick and fillers (waive)

Monroe agrees to a 4 year/13.5 million a year deal

Celtics lineup after trade

Monroe/Zeller
KO/Bass/Powell
Green/Young/Wallace
AB/Smart/Young
Turner/Pressey

Pistons lineup after trade

Drummond
Sullinger
Smith
KCP
Rondo

works out for both team

Why give up anything when we don't gain his bird rights and can just sign him outright in the off-season?

I doubt he will come here in the offseason when he will have better teams chasing to sign him. But we can gain a step by getting him now and have him gel with the team.  He is also good friends with Jeff Green.   Jeff Green will then also want to stay.  I'm the fence on trading Green these days. I mean what other better SFs in the league could we get

Then he won't come here now.

Monroe has "No Trade" power.   He can't be traded here unless he wants to come here.

There is no reason to give up a ton for a guy who (a) gets to choose where he gets traded and (b) won't be coming with Bird Rights.

Detroit has no leverage.  We are not going to give them Rondo for Monroe & filler.