What would be an acceptable package for Al Horford?

[PickNRoll]

Anybody except Rondo or Smart plus I'd toss in the Clippers pick and top-10 protected Celtics picks.

[puskas54_10]

Why would Atlanta trade Horford?
It's nice that after every celtics game somebody on the other team "traded" to the celtics for inferior things.

Why are you always so negative?

Why would Atlanta trade us Horford? Maybe, cause they played well last year despite their record towards the end of the regular season and playoffs. Plus Horford is injury prone.. They admitted that Horford has been on the trade block and reached out to a few teams, and I'm pretty sure the Celtics were one of them.

The Hawks are trying to bring in more prospects, and have cap space with picks.

Who has expiring contracts, prospects and picks?

First of all you don't know what the Atlanta Hawks want (Actually nobody knows what's their plan.)

I don't believe in fairytales. And I don't think the assets you would give up worth more than Horford. Would you give up your celtics pick next year? All the other assets you and others talk about are not enough for an all star player. Would you give up Rondo for Olynyk plus a first in the 20-30 range? And Horford is not an expiring like Rondo.

The topic is "What would be an acceptable package for Al Horford?"  Nobody is claiming that it will get done if someone on this board suggests a good deal for Atlanta.  It's a discussion.  If you think it's a silly discussion, then move on.  No need to p--- on everyone's parade.

I told my opinion. I don't intend to p--- on anyone's parade. Do you think the only discussion that good is where everybody agree? I actually find this idea more realistic than other ideas here. Why did you not answer my question rather?

[Monkhouse]

Why would Atlanta trade Horford?
It's nice that after every celtics game somebody on the other team "traded" to the celtics for inferior things.

Why are you always so negative?

Why would Atlanta trade us Horford? Maybe, cause they played well last year despite their record towards the end of the regular season and playoffs. Plus Horford is injury prone.. They admitted that Horford has been on the trade block and reached out to a few teams, and I'm pretty sure the Celtics were one of them.

The Hawks are trying to bring in more prospects, and have cap space with picks.

Who has expiring contracts, prospects and picks?

First of all you don't know what the Atlanta Hawks want (Actually nobody knows what's their plan.)

I don't believe in fairytales. And I don't think the assets you would give up worth more than Horford. Would you give up your celtics pick next year? All the other assets you and others talk about are not enough for an all star player. Would you give up Rondo for Olynyk plus a first in the 20-30 range? And Horford is not an expiring like Rondo.

The topic is "What would be an acceptable package for Al Horford?"  Nobody is claiming that it will get done if someone on this board suggests a good deal for Atlanta.  It's a discussion.  If you think it's a silly discussion, then move on.  No need to p--- on everyone's parade.

I told my opinion. I don't intend to p--- on anyone's parade. Do you think the only discussion that good is where everybody agree? I actually find this idea more realistic than other ideas here. Why did you not answer my question rather?

What a stupid question... Olynyk isn't the only asset we would give up... KO/Expiring and 2 picks may be attractive to the Hawks...

And yes I would give up our pick next year..

Anybody except Rondo or Smart plus I'd toss in the Clippers pick and top-10 protected Celtics picks.

I would say Green too, because a team of Rondo/Green/Horford is close to playoff contention. We just miss 1 or 2 pieces.

    It happened in stealth mode last season, when the Hawks reached out to a select group and made it known that Horford could be had for the right price — including an unprotected 2014 first-round pick, per several league sources. Nothing materialized, and Horford is ready to return from another torn pectoral muscle.

    A healthy Horford is a top-20 player on a below-market contract that runs through 2015-16 — long enough that some team could talk itself into gambling on him. He could net a hefty return for the Hawks, who have been happily skipping down the “pretty good with cap room” path under Danny Ferry.

___

Also if Horford was an expiring this year, can you imagine, what offers any GM would bargain for an player coming off a season ending torn pectoral muscle year?

Every GM would lowball Ferry off the bat.

[crimson_stallion]

At this point im not so sure if I'd trade Sully for Horford.  Right now Sully is putting up pretty impressive numbers (around 17/10/3 per 36) and he's been petty healthy this year.

I'm not sure Horford is any longer a major upgrade over Sully,  and once you factor in his recent injury history is a big gamble.

[crimson_stallion]

Personally,  I'd rather go for Greg Monroe.

He's a similar player to Horford but younger and without the worrying injury history. Also I think we have a better shot at him.

[SHAQATTACK]

I'd trade Sully and KO and first for Drummond .

One of them and first for Monroe

Bass , AB or Green and pick for Horford

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Personally,  I'd rather go for Greg Monroe.

He's a similar player to Horford but younger and without the worrying injury history. Also I think we have a better shot at him.

Not similar.

Horford is miles away on the defensive side of the floor.

[dreamgreen]

Do we get all the band aids that he will need?

[PickNRoll]

Personally,  I'd rather go for Greg Monroe.

He's a similar player to Horford but younger and without the worrying injury history. Also I think we have a better shot at him.

Not similar.

Horford is miles away on the defensive side of the floor.

This.  Horford is a way to upgrade Zeller, and is more similar to Zeller than Sully.  At the time of their respective draft combines, Sully had 30 pounds on Horford, but they otherwise measured similarly.  It makes you wonder, if Sully got in tip-top shape if he could have more impact on D?

[crimson_stallion]

Personally,  I'd rather go for Greg Monroe.

He's a similar player to Horford but younger and without the worrying injury history. Also I think we have a better shot at him.

Not similar.

Horford is miles away on the defensive side of the floor.

Not so sure about that.

Monroe is an average defensive player - not a defensive anchor, but not a liability either. Horford is above average, but I wouldn't say he's exceptional.

Look, if Horford was healthy I'd take him over Monroe for sure, but he's played a total of 139 games in the past four seasons for an overall attendance record of 39% over that stretch - that's really bad.  Almost Lakers Andrew Bynum bad.  You basically need to build your roster around the assumption that he's going to miss half a season.   

Horford's recent injury history makes Avery Bradley look as durable as Karl Malone.

I really, really like Horford as a player but the problem is he is a REALLY high risk, and I just don't know if a healthy Al Horford is dominant to the point where he's worth that risk.  He's no Anthony Davis, Dwight Howard or Demarcus Cousins - he's more of a complementary star rather than the type who's going to carry a team.  At least that's how I see it. 

Greg Monroe over his career has played in 309 / 328 games over his career for a 94% attendance record.  That's pretty impressive.  In three of his four seasons he has missed 2 or less games.  He's consistent, he's dependable.  He may not be quite as good as a healthy Al Horford, but he is basically 90% of Al Horford in terms of production...except you have the bonus of dependability and tenure (he's only 24 years old, so many years left I him). 

[pokeKingCurtis]

Personally,  I'd rather go for Greg Monroe.

He's a similar player to Horford but younger and without the worrying injury history. Also I think we have a better shot at him.

Not similar.

Horford is miles away on the defensive side of the floor.

Not so sure about that.

Monroe is an average defensive player - not a defensive anchor, but not a liability either. Horford is above average, but I wouldn't say he's exceptional.

Look, if Horford was healthy I'd take him over Monroe for sure, but he's played a total of 139 games in the past four seasons for an overall attendance record of 39% over that stretch - that's really bad.  Almost Lakers Andrew Bynum bad.  You basically need to build your roster around the assumption that he's going to miss half a season.   

Horford's recent injury history makes Avery Bradley look as durable as Karl Malone.

I really, really like Horford as a player but the problem is he is a REALLY high risk, and I just don't know if a healthy Al Horford is dominant to the point where he's worth that risk.  He's no Anthony Davis, Dwight Howard or Demarcus Cousins - he's more of a complementary star rather than the type who's going to carry a team.  At least that's how I see it. 

Greg Monroe over his career has played in 309 / 328 games over his career for a 94% attendance record.  That's pretty impressive.  In three of his four seasons he has missed 2 or less games.  He's consistent, he's dependable.  He may not be quite as good as a healthy Al Horford, but he is basically 90% of Al Horford in terms of production...except you have the bonus of dependability and tenure (he's only 24 years old, so many years left I him).

From what I understand, footspeed is an issue.

But maybe more of an issue of desire?

Certainly having a 7 footer with strength and size would be an upgrade regardless.

[crimson_stallion]

Just for the record guys, here are some Rim Protection stats for you:
http://nyloncalculus.com/stats/rim-protection/

Greg Monroe allowed 52.7% FG at the rim this season, and Al Horford allowed 57.7% - significantly worse.  Both ranked below Jared Sullinger AND Kelly Olynyk, which is honestly not especially inspiring.

In fact Horford was the 15th worst player on this list, ranking only one spot better than Spencer Hawes 

Even scarier is Joakhim Noah, who ranks horribly on this list.  He's currenly averaging -1.81 points saved (i.e. he's allowing 1.81 extra points) per 36 minutes, and he's allowing an opponent FG% of 53.7% at the time - that's worse than Sullinger, Olynyk, Monroe and Boozer.   

[PickNRoll]

Just for the record guys, here are some Rim Protection stats for you:
http://nyloncalculus.com/stats/rim-protection/

Greg Monroe allowed 52.7% FG at the rim this season, and Al Horford allowed 57.7% - significantly worse.  Both ranked below Jared Sullinger AND Kelly Olynyk, which is honestly not especially inspiring.

In fact Horford was the 15th worst player on this list, ranking only one spot better than Spencer Hawes 

Even scarier is Joakhim Noah, who ranks horribly on this list.  He's currenly averaging -1.81 points saved (i.e. he's allowing 1.81 extra points) per 36 minutes, and he's allowing an opponent FG% of 53.7% at the time - that's worse than Sullinger, Olynyk, Monroe and Boozer.

All this tells me is that the stats are bogus.  I've watched almost every Hawks game and Horford is a stud defensively compared to anything we have.  He's constantly altering shots and he plays big for his size.  He also gets up and down the court surprisingly well.  Even saw him knock down a corner 3 and he's a decent mid range shooter.

In all seriousness though, Horford is a good defender.  Sully is average to slightly below.  Olynyk is below average.  And Noah is very good.  The stat boy or computer in charge of recording these stats should probably be fired.  I don't really understand what it means for 1 player to "allow x% shooting at the rim".  Is that just his man scoring?  If it's not his man, then how is it determined when the points count against him?  What if it's his man but he had to help against penetration?  What if Horford and Millsap both challenged a made shot?

This is why I watch the games.

[Fafnir]

You can be a good defender and allow a high percentage at the rim due to lack of length and/or leaping ability. Al Horford's strength has never been shot blocking.

Horford has had a pretty bad start to the season by his usual standards, still working back.