Everyone available on Charlotte

[Who]

Biyombo has the physical qualities and athleticism necessary to overcome lack of height.

What he does not have is the know-how.

Do you think it's too late for him?  How much of it has to do with his coach/role/system/team?

How do you rank Paul Silas, Mike Dunlap and Steve Clifford as far as player development?

I think very little of his problems of been due to coaches or systems. I believe Biyombo only has himself to look at for how much / how little he is playing. I don't think he would have fared any better elsewhere.

I think Paul Silas is an excellent big man coach and a very good coach at developing young players. I rate Silas as one of the best coaches in the league for young bigs. Silas would have been great for Biyombo if Charlotte would've kept him around.

Mike Dunlap was a disaster.

Steve Clifford has done well for Charlotte thus far and some of their young players have shown good improvement while he has been there. Kemba, MKG and now Cody Zeller. So it looks like he is a good influence. Over-achieved in a major way last season with Bobcats defense so he must be a strong defensive coach.

Biyombo's big problems is that he does not know yet how to overcome lack of size. How to maximize his strengths - his advantages in terms of quickness, agility and explosiveness. Ben Wallace had similar problems early in his career before blossoming into the exceptional defensive talent he later became. And Big Ben was older (22yo) than Biyombo (19yo) when he was starting out in the NBA. Barely played his first year and only 10-15mpg in years two, 20mpg in year 3 until Washington's thin frontline offered him opportunity to play major minutes late in season. Wallace was 25 when he became a full time starter (only 20-25mpg) in Orlando (at PF, not C). It wasn't until year after in Detroit when he played big minutes (35mpg) and played his natural position (C) as a starter.

So I think it is far too early to give up on Biyombo.

I wonder if undersized bigs like him (and like Ben Wallace) just take longer to develop. To learn how to be successful while so undersized at the center position. Especially when they are without offensive skill to make up for inexperience defensively.

As I say, I'd love to take a chance on him if available at low price.

[Beat LA]

Biyombo has the physical qualities and athleticism necessary to overcome lack of height.

What he does not have is the know-how.

Do you think it's too late for him?  How much of it has to do with his coach/role/system/team?

How do you rank Paul Silas, Mike Dunlap and Steve Clifford as far as player development?

Man I'm telling you... there might be 4-5 guys on that team with untapped potential.  It's a gold mine, baby.   Catchem All!

Oh dear lord, did you just make a pokemon reference?

[Beat LA]

Biyombo has the physical qualities and athleticism necessary to overcome lack of height.

What he does not have is the know-how.

Do you think it's too late for him?  How much of it has to do with his coach/role/system/team?

How do you rank Paul Silas, Mike Dunlap and Steve Clifford as far as player development?

I think very little of his problems of been due to coaches or systems. I believe Biyombo only has himself to look at for how much / how little he is playing. I don't think he would have fared any better elsewhere.

I think Paul Silas is an excellent big man coach and a very good coach at developing young players. I rate Silas as one of the best coaches in the league for young bigs. Silas would have been great for Biyombo if Charlotte would've kept him around.

Mike Dunlap was a disaster.

Steve Clifford has done well for Charlotte thus far and some of their young players have shown good improvement while he has been there. Kemba, MKG and now Cody Zeller. So it looks like he is a good influence. Over-achieved in a major way last season with Bobcats defense so he must be a strong defensive coach.

Biyombo's big problems is that he does not know yet how to overcome lack of size. How to maximize his strengths - his advantages in terms of quickness, agility and explosiveness. Ben Wallace had similar problems early in his career before blossoming into the exceptional defensive talent he later became. And Big Ben was older (22yo) than Biyombo (19yo) when he was starting out in the NBA. Barely played his first year and only 10-15mpg in years two, 20mpg in year 3 until Washington's thin frontline offered him opportunity to play major minutes late in season. Wallace was 25 when he became a full time starter (only 20-25mpg) in Orlando (at PF, not C). It wasn't until year after in Detroit when he played big minutes (35mpg) and played his natural position (C) as a starter.

So I think it is far too early to give up on Biyombo.

I wonder if undersized bigs like him (and like Ben Wallace) just take longer to develop. To learn how to be successful while so undersized at the center position. Especially when they are without offensive skill to make up for inexperience defensively.

As I say, I'd love to take a chance on him if available at low price.

I don't think it's just undersized big men - a lot of big guys take a few years before they start to 'get it,' so to speak, and I'm with you - let's try him out, especially now that Hassan Whiteside is off the market.  Plus, Biyombo's an expiring contract, so, yay.

I don't know if this is true or not, but I believe that Jordan thought that Biyombo could be like Ben Wallace, which is why he took him so early.  Don't quote me on that, though.  I just remember someone making that comparison.  Does he have exceptional athleticism and lateral quickness, great hands, and is he an excellent passer, not to mention defender, because you can't just look at an undersized, defense-oriented big guy with great athleticism and say that he's the next Ben Wallace - that's not fair to Big Ben or Biyombo.

[LooseCannon]

I think Biyombo is probably best suited to being that defense/rebounding energy big off the bench.  If I had any interest in him, I'd probably be inclined to wait and see what happens to him in free agency.

[Who]

Biyombo has the physical qualities and athleticism necessary to overcome lack of height.

What he does not have is the know-how.

Do you think it's too late for him?  How much of it has to do with his coach/role/system/team?

How do you rank Paul Silas, Mike Dunlap and Steve Clifford as far as player development?

I think very little of his problems of been due to coaches or systems. I believe Biyombo only has himself to look at for how much / how little he is playing. I don't think he would have fared any better elsewhere.

I think Paul Silas is an excellent big man coach and a very good coach at developing young players. I rate Silas as one of the best coaches in the league for young bigs. Silas would have been great for Biyombo if Charlotte would've kept him around.

Mike Dunlap was a disaster.

Steve Clifford has done well for Charlotte thus far and some of their young players have shown good improvement while he has been there. Kemba, MKG and now Cody Zeller. So it looks like he is a good influence. Over-achieved in a major way last season with Bobcats defense so he must be a strong defensive coach.

Biyombo's big problems is that he does not know yet how to overcome lack of size. How to maximize his strengths - his advantages in terms of quickness, agility and explosiveness. Ben Wallace had similar problems early in his career before blossoming into the exceptional defensive talent he later became. And Big Ben was older (22yo) than Biyombo (19yo) when he was starting out in the NBA. Barely played his first year and only 10-15mpg in years two, 20mpg in year 3 until Washington's thin frontline offered him opportunity to play major minutes late in season. Wallace was 25 when he became a full time starter (only 20-25mpg) in Orlando (at PF, not C). It wasn't until year after in Detroit when he played big minutes (35mpg) and played his natural position (C) as a starter.

So I think it is far too early to give up on Biyombo.

I wonder if undersized bigs like him (and like Ben Wallace) just take longer to develop. To learn how to be successful while so undersized at the center position. Especially when they are without offensive skill to make up for inexperience defensively.

As I say, I'd love to take a chance on him if available at low price.

I don't think it's just undersized big men - a lot of big guys take a few years before they start to 'get it,' so to speak, and I'm with you - let's try him out, especially now that Hassan Whiteside is off the market.  Plus, Biyombo's an expiring contract, so, yay.

I don't know if this is true or not, but I believe that Jordan thought that Biyombo could be like Ben Wallace, which is why he took him so early.  Don't quote me on that, though.  I just remember someone making that comparison.  Does he have exceptional athleticism and lateral quickness, great hands, and is he an excellent passer, not to mention defender, because you can't just look at an undersized, defense-oriented big guy with great athleticism and say that he's the next Ben Wallace - that's not fair to Big Ben or Biyombo.

Yes, bigs tend to take longer but I wonder if undersized bigs (without offensive skill, defense reliant bigs) take even longer again. Just an idea. I don't know.

I think Biyombo has elite physical talent and is comparable to Big Ben solely in terms of physical & athletic attributes. He does not have defensive fundamentals or know-how necessary to be as effective defensively as Big Ben. Biyombo is useless offensively. But so too was Ben Wallace early in his career. Wallace did not become a good passer until later in his career.

I think Ben Wallace is the gold standard for what a player like Biyombo should be looking to achieve in NBA. That a player like Biyombo with his physical qualities, with a love of defense & rebounding but also an extremely limited offensive game ... should to look to model his own game after Big Ben. There is no better player for Biyombo to look to to try and copy and imitate. To learn from. To learn how to make best use of his own talent.

[PickNRoll]

I forgot about Hairston's trouble off the court.  People change, I guess.  I'd roll the dice pending a little more background.

As for Biyombo, he got some good minutes the other night against the Hawks in a blowout and he made a big impact while he was on the court.  Tough rebounds in traffic and good defensive presence.  I would definitely gamble on him.  The reason nobody passes him the ball is because nobody on Charlotte passes the ball. 

People like MKG because he's a hawk of a defender and he gets after it on every single play -- 100% effort.  Count me as one of em.

Look everyone - a shooting guard who can put the ball on the floor

Wait, we really need a shooting guard who can put the ball on the floor.  Bradley certainly can't. 

[bmac934]

I know it doesn't match up money wise, there would need to be some fillers coming in from charlotte and indiana.  Just didn't want to waste my time thinking about fillers, you never know how organizations value some players.

Bos OUT - green, ko, bass, bradley, Thornton, 2015 celtics 1st, 2015 LAC 1st, bos 2nd
Bos IN - vonleh, stephenson, hibbert

Cha OUT - stephenson, vonleh, biyombo
Cha In - green, bass, kelly olynyk, 2015 lac 1st

Ind OUT - hibbert
Ind In - bradley, thornton, biyombo, 2015 bos 1st, bos 2nd

[LooseCannon]

It was rumored that the Celtics passed on Vonleh in part because of unspecified "character concerns".  The Celtics taking Marcus Smart instead makes you wonder how bad those concerns actually were.  If true, I doubt anything has changed to make the Celtics want Vonleh.

[Evantime34]

It was rumored that the Celtics passed on Vonleh in part because of unspecified "character concerns".  The Celtics taking Marcus Smart instead makes you wonder how bad those concerns actually were.  If true, I doubt anything has changed to make the Celtics want Vonleh.

There is a difference between not wanting him with the 6th pick in a very good draft and not trading him for Jeff Green and Bass or Thornton.

If the Celtics were offered the 8th pick in the draft for that package on draft night I bet they pounce on it.

[Smartacus]

So are we going to unite the Zellers? Cody - Tyler all Zeller front court. Brad Stevens' Indiana dream team.

[D.o.s.]

So are we going to unite the Zellers? Cody - Tyler all Zeller front court. Brad Stevens' Indiana dream team.

We'd need the third one for the hat trick, though.

[LooseCannon]

It was rumored that the Celtics passed on Vonleh in part because of unspecified "character concerns".  The Celtics taking Marcus Smart instead makes you wonder how bad those concerns actually were.  If true, I doubt anything has changed to make the Celtics want Vonleh.

There is a difference between not wanting him with the 6th pick in a very good draft and not trading him for Jeff Green and Bass or Thornton.

If the Celtics were offered the 8th pick in the draft for that package on draft night I bet they pounce on it.

But Ainge might not be interested in including a first round pick as part of the deal.

[bmac934]

Stephenson & Vonleh for Green & olynyk?  I like it on both ends for both teams.  We can build around a three guard lineup, with 4 phenomenal all around guards (nightmare defensively).  In stephenson we get a go to player who can break down a team off the dribble.  With Stephensons court vision and scoring ability we get more of a go to player down the stretch of games.  In green charlotte gets the traditional, "do it all power forward" they are looking for.  In vonleh we get more of a physical player and a bruiser.  Someone who can play down low with sully, a lot more traditional c/pf.  Not to mention Vonleh can still shoot the ball from deep and stretch the floor.  In KO charlotte gets someone who can REALLY stretch the floor and give Big Al room to do his thing. KO is also clearly a more developed player, who could prove to thrive at the power forward position.

*** I meant "do it all small forward"

[PickNRoll]

Do we really want to deal with this?

[gpap]

Stephenson & Vonleh for Green & olynyk?  I like it on both ends for both teams.  We can build around a three guard lineup, with 4 phenomenal all around guards (nightmare defensively).  In stephenson we get a go to player who can break down a team off the dribble.  With Stephensons court vision and scoring ability we get more of a go to player down the stretch of games.  In green charlotte gets the traditional, "do it all power forward" they are looking for.  In vonleh we get more of a physical player and a bruiser.  Someone who can play down low with sully, a lot more traditional c/pf.  Not to mention Vonleh can still shoot the ball from deep and stretch the floor.  In KO charlotte gets someone who can REALLY stretch the floor and give Big Al room to do his thing. KO is also clearly a more developed player, who could prove to thrive at the power forward position.

Not bad.