Author Topic: I think we missed the boat on Ben McLemore  (Read 8415 times)

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I think we missed the boat on Ben McLemore
« on: November 30, 2014, 08:56:35 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Man... how many of you guys declared Ben McLemore a bust last year?  Many of you are still saying it.   I can't remember how many times I defended that kid on forum posts while people overreacted to his dreadful rookie season.  You could see the potential... great athleticism with an absolutely gorgeous shot.  Legitimate size for a shooting guard (6'5 205).  We saw him shoot 50%/42%/87% in College.  We saw him called likely the 2nd best player in the draft behind Nerlens Noel (many publications favored him to Marcus Smart). 

Look, maybe he doesn't keep it up, but by the end of last season he was showing why he was drafted.  He finished with double digit scoring his last 5 games.  Final game he showed flashes of what he might become... 31 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists .

And now this season...  he's 21 years old and averaging 11 points on very efficient 47%/42%/87% shooting.   That's the McLemore everyone expected to see before fans gave up on him during a rough rookie year.   His last 5 games:  15.6 points on 52%/42%/75%... he seems to be improving every game.

He's relevant for two reason.  #1 - the longstanding rumor that the Kings were willing to give him along with Isiah Thomas and additional picks for Rondo ( http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/231999/Kings-Offered-Celtics-Isaiah-Thomas-Ben-McLemore-Picks-For-Rajon-Rondo )  ... though I have my doubts the Kings were willing to do that.  #2 - According to Woj, the Kings offered us McLemore for the #6 pick:  http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2014/6/26/5847492/report-kings-and-celtics-discussing-trade-of-ben-mclemore-and-6th-pick  ...

So as McLemore continues to develop, it will be hard not to imagine what could have been.  Some fans will wonder what might have been had we traded Rondo for a McLemore/Thomas/picks package.   I like Smart a lot, but I have a feeling we might end up looking back on the #6 for McLemore opportunity as well. 

Nonetheless, I think we missed the boat on McLemore.  I can't imagine anyone sneaking away with McLemore in a trade anymore.   I think the lesson is that you can make a swing for a super prospect when that super prospect is temporarily underperforming.   But as soon as he starts to hit his stride, it's over.   Keep that in mind if you see someone like Alex Len or Dante Exum become available.   Easy to say "nah he's a bust... he's playing terrible as a 20 year old rookie", but you might end up regretting the blown opportunity when the young guy starts showing his potential.  You know, maybe McLemore goes through a really cold streak, loses his starting position to Stauskas, and this post ends up looking ridiculous, but I do think it's an important lesson to keep in mind.   The only reason a prospect like McLemore would even be available that early in his career... is if he monumentally underperforms.   You don't get a crack at talent like that otherwise... and that window can shut pretty quickly. 

Re: I think we missed the boat on Ben McLemore
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2014, 08:59:30 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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The jury is still out on him.

Re: I think we missed the boat on Ben McLemore
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2014, 09:08:53 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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The jury is still out on him.
I think there's more evidence to suggest he's going to be an elite shooter than a poor shooter. 

I would LOVE to have him in Boston.  Actually... a backcourt of Smart at PG and McLemore at SG would be fantastic.  McLemore can shoot lights out.  We're starting to see what we expected to see based on everything we knew about him going into the draft.   At some point, holding his rookie season against him will be like pointing out that Avery Bradley averaged 1.7 points on 34%/0%/50% as a rookie...  it will stop being relevant.

But again, I think it's plausible that the Kings would give up McLemore while the super prospect is shooting 38% and stinking up the joint... I find it a lot less likely that the Kings would trade a 21 year old who looks like an elite shooter/scorer.   I think the ship sailed.  If there was a window to steal McLemore from the Kings, we lost it.   Reminds me a bit of the tiny window where DeMarcus Cousins seemed available.  That window closed too.

Re: I think we missed the boat on Ben McLemore
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2014, 09:32:14 PM »

Offline Nerf DPOY

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So he can shoot, but I thought most of the concerns about him were his handle, his D, and his overall BBall IQ. Having not watched much of the Kings this year, I can't say if he's improved at all in that regard. Also, I really haven't seen any buzz about him on Real GM yet. It all seems to be coming from here over the last several days.

It must have just killed you when Randle broke his leg.

Re: I think we missed the boat on Ben McLemore
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2014, 09:54:57 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Ainge made a mistake. He also made a mistake to keep KG and PP a year longer than he should have , only to get lucky at get overpaid by the dumb Nets.  I can't see any other teams being that dumb and overpaying for Rondo. If they really want him , they can try to bring him in as a FA.

I still think we can get Mclemore , however we won't be able to unload Wallace in the process and might have to include a future 1st or worse case AB with Rondo.  The Kings are in win now mode , Cousins likes Rondo, Gay is friends with Rondo and Cousins also knows AB somehow. Worse is if the longer Danny lets Mclemore gel with the team, the less chance he will have to get him or have to really overpay.

Mclemore and Smart backcourt would be an exciting pair.  Both good defenders, one a super one (Smart) and Mclemore is going to turn out to be respectable 3 pt shooter sooner or later. A top flight athlete also

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO7LMUtBjwA

Re: I think we missed the boat on Ben McLemore
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2014, 10:00:19 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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So he can shoot, but I thought most of the concerns about him were his handle, his D, and his overall BBall IQ. Having not watched much of the Kings this year, I can't say if he's improved at all in that regard. Also, I really haven't seen any buzz about him on Real GM yet. It all seems to be coming from here over the last several days.

It must have just killed you when Randle broke his leg.

His handle is good enough. He doesn't need to be a magician. He is good at getting open, and has a quick release.  The Ray Allen comparisons are looking better and better.  I don't think he will ever be as good as Mr Allen.  But a poor man version likely
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 10:06:41 PM by triboy16f »

Re: I think we missed the boat on Ben McLemore
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2014, 10:14:36 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Ainge made a mistake. He also made a mistake to keep KG and PP a year longer than he should have , only to get lucky at get overpaid by the dumb Nets.  I can't see any other teams being that dumb and overpaying for Rondo. If they really want him , they can try to bring him in as a FA.

I still think we can get Mclemore , however we won't be able to unload Wallace in the process and might have to include a future 1st or worse case AB with Rondo.  The Kings are in win now mode , Cousins likes Rondo, Gay is friends with Rondo and Cousins also knows AB somehow. Worse is if the longer Danny lets Mclemore gel with the team, the less chance he will have to get him or have to really overpay.

Mclemore and Smart backcourt would be an exciting pair.  Both good defenders, one a super one (Smart) and Mclemore is going to turn out to be respectable 3 pt shooter sooner or later. A top flight athlete also

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO7LMUtBjwA

Yeah, his mistake was trading our legends.

Re: I think we missed the boat on Ben McLemore
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2014, 10:20:36 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Man... how many of you guys declared Ben McLemore a bust last year?  Many of you are still saying it.   I can't remember how many times I defended that kid on forum posts while people overreacted to his dreadful rookie season.  You could see the potential... great athleticism with an absolutely gorgeous shot.  Legitimate size for a shooting guard (6'5 205).  We saw him shoot 50%/42%/87% in College.  We saw him called likely the 2nd best player in the draft behind Nerlens Noel (many publications favored him to Marcus Smart). 

Look, maybe he doesn't keep it up, but by the end of last season he was showing why he was drafted.  He finished with double digit scoring his last 5 games.  Final game he showed flashes of what he might become... 31 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists .

And now this season...  he's 21 years old and averaging 11 points on very efficient 47%/42%/87% shooting.   That's the McLemore everyone expected to see before fans gave up on him during a rough rookie year.   His last 5 games:  15.6 points on 52%/42%/75%... he seems to be improving every game.

He's relevant for two reason.  #1 - the longstanding rumor that the Kings were willing to give him along with Isiah Thomas and additional picks for Rondo ( http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/231999/Kings-Offered-Celtics-Isaiah-Thomas-Ben-McLemore-Picks-For-Rajon-Rondo )  ... though I have my doubts the Kings were willing to do that.  #2 - According to Woj, the Kings offered us McLemore for the #6 pick:  http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2014/6/26/5847492/report-kings-and-celtics-discussing-trade-of-ben-mclemore-and-6th-pick  ...

So as McLemore continues to develop, it will be hard not to imagine what could have been.  Some fans will wonder what might have been had we traded Rondo for a McLemore/Thomas/picks package.   I like Smart a lot, but I have a feeling we might end up looking back on the #6 for McLemore opportunity as well. 

Nonetheless, I think we missed the boat on McLemore.  I can't imagine anyone sneaking away with McLemore in a trade anymore.   I think the lesson is that you can make a swing for a super prospect when that super prospect is temporarily underperforming.   But as soon as he starts to hit his stride, it's over.   Keep that in mind if you see someone like Alex Len or Dante Exum become available.   Easy to say "nah he's a bust... he's playing terrible as a 20 year old rookie", but you might end up regretting the blown opportunity when the young guy starts showing his potential.  You know, maybe McLemore goes through a really cold streak, loses his starting position to Stauskas, and this post ends up looking ridiculous, but I do think it's an important lesson to keep in mind.   The only reason a prospect like McLemore would even be available that early in his career... is if he monumentally underperforms.   You don't get a crack at talent like that otherwise... and that window can shut pretty quickly.

I'll admit it - I thought he was a bust, although I don't think you can blame any of us for coming to such a conclusion based on his rookie campaign lol, where he only had one good game, and that was the last one of the season.  KO had some great games towards the end of last year as well, so we thought that he'd build on that and continue to improve, as McLemore obviously has, but that hasn't been the case.  As good as Ryan Lewis' partner in crime (sarcasm) might be, though, I'd never trade Rondo for him.  That would be about as blatant of a ripoff as I can imagine.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 10:31:12 PM by Beat LA »

Re: I think we missed the boat on Ben McLemore
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2014, 10:42:45 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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We have enough guys who only play on one side of the floor.

Re: I think we missed the boat on Ben McLemore
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2014, 10:45:39 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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We have enough guys who only play on one side of the floor.
How many guys do we have who can reliably shoot ?

Re: I think we missed the boat on Ben McLemore
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2014, 11:00:29 PM »

Offline jambr380

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While I generally agree with your synopsis on pulling the trigger on underperforming prospects, you may be overrating McLemore a bit. He may very well become a very good player down the road, but what you are describing is similar to our very own KO - 2nd year offensively oriented player who ended last season on a nice run and showed marked improvement this season (yes, I realize KO is in a little slump, but he was looking great up until recently).

I would trade AB for him, simply because I agree that it's nice to have actual size from the SG position and Ben is also more of a prototypical SG, but I am still willing to take my chances on Rondo. Everybody keeps talking about how he will just sign with whoever he wants after the season, but we can pay him the most money. At the very least, we can set up a sign and trade - otherwise he is exactly the kind of player you want leading a talented team. Unfortunately we are kind of lacking on the 'talent' side of things.

Re: I think we missed the boat on Ben McLemore
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2014, 11:13:43 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
How many guys do we have who can reliably shoot ?

We got plenty who can't defend, we need two way players.   Give Young two years and I do think we do not need Ben.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 06:39:26 AM by Celtics4ever »

Re: I think we missed the boat on Ben McLemore
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2014, 11:52:44 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Mclemore can out jump, run 80 percent of guys at his position. Also is 6'5 and not 6'2 like AB. 

He has the tools to be a top player in the league.  His biggest downfall is his mentality. Not aggressive enough. Like KO

He is starting to get it though. Once he gets it, it will take much more than Rondo to take him away from Sac.

Danny needs to start selling Rondo to Sac .


Re: I think we missed the boat on Ben McLemore
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2014, 12:30:36 AM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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I dont think we did.

Let's see, a young prospect who's athletic, with length for his position, can shoot and has the physical tools to be a good defender. Don't we have a guy like that already...?

2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: I think we missed the boat on Ben McLemore
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2014, 12:52:37 AM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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Mclmore red shirted his freshman year. To be fair we would have to wait to the beginning on the 2017 to 2018 season and see how James Young is doing.
I do like Ben but I also like the guy we just drated, and I like his chances at being a legit 2 way player. James has the length to do it.