Author Topic: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?  (Read 14926 times)

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Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« on: November 29, 2014, 02:49:07 AM »

Offline celtics2030

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Let's see.

Is Rondo tanking? No the Celtics organization obviously is.

New coach, new to the league. Yea let's expect to be really really good right away.

6 foot 2 Shooting Guard who makes horrific decisions, a takes 18 footer's more than anybody in the league, cannot finish. Not hating, but his flaws are obvious.

Olynyk and Sully - People think Sully is something great. Have you seen Sully? If plays 30 minutes , its automatic 100+ points for the opposition. Sully and Olnyk are great scorers, but they are not winning members of a good team. Not yet at least.

Jeff Green. He is just not an every night guy.

When Rondo was starting with the big 3 , the team was winning 60+ games a year. The style was evident, even though Allen Pierce and Garnett were beasts, they still really did not light up the scoreboard.

The plan should be about getting players around Rondo, because we all know what type of players he needs. So the organization and Danny should know also.

The hate on Rondo is really the hate on the team which stinks and has 0 chance of doing anything.

Franchise players are builded around......Sully and Bradley starting is an automatic 45 losses to me. You put Klay Thompson and a player like Noah and this team wins 45 games+ easily.

Rondo will never win with players like Bradley and Sully playing starter minutes. Its simply impossible to win games like that.

The only issue is that Rondo's mouth probably brought most of this on himself. Im pretty sure Rondo thought that him and Bradley could do lots of damage. In reality they dont mesh well at all.

The only time they did was when people did not pay attention to Bradley's middle school cuts that seem to happen twice a week now if lucky.

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2014, 03:24:17 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I don't think he should be blamed for anything.  He's the best player on this team (though it does seem like SUlly is quickly improving).  The problem is that the team as a whole is pretty bad.  Rondo isn't a superstar level player who can win games by himself.  He's an exceptional player with some major flaws.  He's immensely skilled, but what he's immensely skilled (distributing, rebounding for a point guard) aren't really the most important attributes towards winning a championship.  Stick him on a team of hall of famers that compliment his skills, you can have a really nice team with Rondo.

MAJOR exaggeration, but it's like having the world's greatest NFL kicker.  If the team is garbage, he shouldn't be blamed.  It's not his fault.  He's still a great kicker.    Rondo is a great passer regardless of the fact his team is bleh and "passing" isn't the most important NBA skill.

Here's where the bickering comes from.  You have some fans here who liked to believe Rondo was a superstar talent that could raise the level of a team and lead them to the playoffs by himself.  It's simply not true.  Lots of debates stemmed from that.  I myself have been vocal in saying that Rondo can't be the best player on a champion.   Rondo's my favorite player on the team... I love that guy.  But on the internet you're either all-in or all-out.  I've been called a hater for pointing out the guy's flaws.  I mean... I said the same stuff about Pierce, but Pierce was my favorite modern player of all time.  It wasn't going to prevent me from admitting that Pierce wasn't on LeBron's level.  Still... in the age of hyperbole everything is either the "best ever" or "worst ever".  You can't admit that LeBron was better than Pierce without being a Pierce hater in the eyes of some. 

So then you have fans who really disagree with everything I just said.  They point out that 3 years ago in the 2012 Playoffs, Rondo did this and that... or claim that he was the best player 5 years ago in 2010...  That stems more disagreement.  That stems more bickering.  It starts to slant everyone's view, because they are tired of arguing points they are convinced are right.  On top of that you have fans who buy into the media idea that Ainge has been shopping Rondo for years... and you have fans who buy the company line that Ainge will never shop Rondo.  That stems more disagreement.  More people become bitter with one another.  The snark goes off the charts.   

I mean at the end of the day, Rondo is the most prominent figure on a terrible team in a big market.  He's been both overrated and underrated.  If the team was winning, it wouldn't matter as much... but we are in the thick of irrelevance and Rondo is at the head of it... that combined with the trade culture Ainge has fostered, the disagreement amongst fans and Rondo's impending free agency means you're going to hear people complaining about Rondo for at least a few more months. 

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2014, 05:06:38 AM »

Offline 255 Rings

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We are blaming him for his pathetic performances thus far. We know his weaknesses and they're bad enough that to have him leading this team will result in lottery trips. He's no Derrick Rose or Russell Westbrook, guards that dominate, he doesn't dominate without having other stars around him. Alone he's a liability, a BIG liability! There isn't a skill-set that Rondo possesses that can guarantee you a playoff berth. OK so he runs an offense, he sets guys up, but what happens when they're not pulling through? He shrivels and does nothing to bring us back into games. He doesn't drive to the hoop for fouls because that would mean he has to shoot FTs which he's a joke at. He can't shoot from the perimeter because he isn't a threat there. What does he do? He passes for an assist (loves racking them and leading in them, yeah, that'll keep him relevant in the league smh) and hopes the team makes the shot. It worked when KG, Allen and Pierce were here because all THREE were clutch players and game changers. Without player like that he's exposed as average with only the cute little assists and fancy passes to save him from burrowing deeper into the land of forgetfulness beneath a hoard of much superior PGs (Curry, Lillard, Westbrook, Rose, Wall, Irving, CP3, Parker, Dragic, Lowry, Conley, Lawson, Thomas, better shooters and big time clutch players). Maybe Smart outplays him down the road to see if it lights a fire under him because it's sad to root for a guy that isn't even considered elite at all. There's a reason why the market for Green, an average player, is better than Rondo's. He's overrated, simple.

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2014, 05:29:06 AM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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When you're the best player on the team and the team is losing you're bound to get some criticism. It doesn't help that when Rondo has missed games it doesn't seem to make a huge difference (this is perception, I don't know the numbers) in the wins category. The ridiculously low FT pct (even by his own low standards) is particularly glaring due to the misses in crunch time during close games. That criticism to me is fair - there was a time when people thought "Rondo makes them more often than not in crunch time" but to actually be shooting markedly worse than his already-horrible career average is very frustrating.

Personally I didn't have any great hope for this season or notion that Rondo would increase the win total significantly. However, I think that some people thought a healthy and in-his-prime Rondo could be a lesser version of those Kidd-led Nets and Nash Suns of years past. Meaning, a team led by a PG as the best player with a strong system in place and good-but-not-great talent around him. Those teams had better talent than this Celtics squad obviously, but the point is they would surprise teams by being greater than the sum total of their parts. The team has not overachieved in this regard, at least not to the point where wins/losses are affected.

So far this team has not shown itself to be any better or worse than last year's squad. They've lost one game they probably should have won (home against OKC) and won one game they probably were favored to lose (@CHI with Rose not playing). Other than that they've beaten the teams they probably should beat and lost to the superior teams most nights.

Besides, almost everybody on the team other than Rondo has also gotten criticism. Bradley has gotten the most of it recently, but in the absence of a healthy Rondo, Green was last year's whipping boy. If Sullinger and Olynyk weren't on their rookie deals they would also be getting a lot more flak. If you're getting paid to be a starter and the team is losing, you're gonna get blamed.

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2014, 05:32:51 AM »

Offline mr. dee

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Since I'm not around here pre big 3 era, I wonder if Pierce got the same treatment here around CB.

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2014, 05:43:37 AM »

Offline Jiri Welsch

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Since I'm not around here pre big 3 era, I wonder if Pierce got the same treatment here around CB.

Pierce's was more about attitude problems as well as poor shot selection sometimes at the end of games.

It never was questioning his abilities in the way posters question Rondo's if that makes sense.

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2014, 07:07:20 AM »

Offline TwinTower14

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I don't blame rondo for the C's being bad. I blame him for being the same exact shooter he is now as when he arrived in the league...he hasn't improved his game at all...

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2014, 09:25:14 AM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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Rondo is hardly the problem, he's some of the problem in that this is a bad roster and we have a bad understanding of how to utilize it to it's best advantage.

- AB - needs to be less of a focus on the offensive end.

- KO - needs to get more shots(the shots that AB is taking) and shoot more, esp. if they insist on starting him...at center. KO needs to have at least 20-30 shots a game otherwise there is no reason to play him at all.

against the bulls KO had 2 fouls before he even had a shot attempt. that should not happen! he should have had 3 shot attempts by that time! his offense is the only reason for playing him(much less start him) at all....GET HIM THE [dang] BALL!!!

opposing teams have no problem going right at KO as soon as they get off the bus. why do we have a problem looking his way out of the gate? what's the point of KO starting; knowing he pretty much has 2 fouls on him before he even steps on the court? someone please tell me what's his purpose?

- Zeller - needs to start. esp. if they're not going to make KO the weapon he should be. plus he has chemistry with Rondo. and he's not a complete push over on D.

- Turner - needs to never play PG again. this guy needs some discipline to his game, he's erratic.

- Green - lol, when this guy scores 20 all I think is why didn't he have 30? he's so freaking talented imo, but he just doesn't have it in him to be the man...too bad.

we should trade this guy asap.

- Rondo - some of his turnovers are just horrible this season, as well as decision making in general, as well as shot selection.

the shot selection i'm not surprised by. but the turnovers that he has had just look ugly. most of 'em are turds disguised as passes. like the one as soon as Zeller came in against the bulls, Zeller had 3 guys around him down the middle of the lane, Rondo still bounce-passed it to him, the pass had no chance...but I chalk it up to Rondo's confidence in he and Zeller's chemistry.

Rondo to me looks like a great player playing on a bad team.

- couple other things. why is Turner the PG and Pressey the SG on some possessions? and Pressey there is a reason you're wide open on most plays...

again we ran a play against the bulls to get Pressey a shot....? with Turner at the PG? no one sees a problem with this?

the only thing I can guess is BS is being asked to coach this team this way. because if this is legit coaching and philosophy? we're in trouble.   

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2014, 09:31:56 AM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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also, the reason we lose leads is because we're settling for jump shots after we get the lead. and the shots we get in the 1st half are the same we get in the 2nd half. the reason why we can't make them in the 2nd half is because they were the same bad shots we took in the 1st half. only difference is we made 'em.

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2014, 09:32:19 AM »

Offline Jailan34

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All i know is people blame and hate on players like Love and Melo for not winning and they get labeled "losers". Well heres Rondo, in a weak east surrounded by shooters and young players that can score and "run with him". Where are we with this team built around Rondo? Sub .500, should Rondo now be labeled a loser who got carried to a title? Of course not, but lets not pretend he's some kind of superstar that can carry a team.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2014, 09:58:31 AM »

Offline Chris22

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Rondo is a below average point guard at this point in his career.

He can't shoot and he can't defend.

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2014, 10:03:56 AM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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All i know is people blame and hate on players like Love and Melo for not winning and they get labeled "losers". Well heres Rondo, in a weak east surrounded by shooters and young players that can score and "run with him". Where are we with this team built around Rondo? Sub .500, should Rondo now be labeled a loser who got carried to a title? Of course not, but lets not pretend he's some kind of superstar that can carry a team.

dude, there is not one shooter on this team. we have a bunch of guys that can hit jump shots occasionally, when the pressure isn't on. that doesn't make them shooters.

imo, in this day and age a PG can't or shouldn't be you're go to guy. Rondo is our best player, he needs help. it's not outrageous for a great player to need help. with that said I don't think it takes 2 other all-stars to improve this team dramatically. he's not LeBron.   

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2014, 10:05:16 AM »

Offline Chris22

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All i know is people blame and hate on players like Love and Melo for not winning and they get labeled "losers". Well heres Rondo, in a weak east surrounded by shooters and young players that can score and "run with him". Where are we with this team built around Rondo? Sub .500, should Rondo now be labeled a loser who got carried to a title? Of course not, but lets not pretend he's some kind of superstar that can carry a team.

dude, there is not one shooter on this team. we have a bunch of guys that can hit jump shots occasionally, when the pressure isn't on. that doesn't make them shooters.

imo, in this day and age a PG can't or shouldn't be you're go to guy. Rondo is our best player, he needs help. it's not outrageous for a great player to need help. with that said I don't think it takes 2 other all-stars to improve this team dramatically. he's not LeBron.

Rondo is not our best player. Sullinger is.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2014, 10:21:48 AM »

Offline KingofDaPlayazBall

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He deserves some blame because there is debate over whether not his a max contract player or not, by the way he is playing i don't even think he is worth 8 figures.  At this point I believe putting good players around Sullinger and Smart is better than putting good players around Rondo.  Its not just this season either, rondo has constantly been a helpless liability in the forth quarter in his entire career.  if you still remember the 08 finals, we had to sit rondo in the 4th quarter for Eddie House or else we might of lost.  Rondo hasn't even been the best player in the current group, so far it has been Sullinger, Green, Smart, Bradley/Rondo

Re: Why blame Rondo? What are people exactly blaming him for?
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2014, 10:38:00 AM »

Offline Chris22

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He deserves some blame because there is debate over whether not his a max contract player or not, by the way he is playing i don't even think he is worth 8 figures.  At this point I believe putting good players around Sullinger and Smart is better than putting good players around Rondo.  Its not just this season either, rondo has constantly been a helpless liability in the forth quarter in his entire career.  if you still remember the 08 finals, we had to sit rondo in the 4th quarter for Eddie House or else we might of lost.  Rondo hasn't even been the best player in the current group, so far it has been Sullinger, Green, Smart, Bradley/Rondo

I would like to see us start Turner, Smart, Green, Olynyk, and Sullinger.

Trade Rondo for a rim protector.