Author Topic: Stood behind this team too long!!!  (Read 15453 times)

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Re: Stood behind this team too long!!!
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2014, 06:49:09 PM »

Offline mctyson

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Why?

Really it is quite simple....in the NBA in the 4th quarter, your best player has the ball in his hands and is expected to make plays and shots.

If you are going to say that Rondo is our best player, then you also should expect him to be THAT GUY.  And he can't be THAT GUY because he CAN'T SHOOT.

More importantly, in the 4th quarter, teams that win have guys that can draw fouls and get to the line.  Our best player, who always has the ball, not only doesn't get to the line but when he does, shoots FTs worse than a bad high school player.

Being 30% from the line is inexcusable.  Sorry.  And that is KILLLING  this team.

Re: Stood behind this team too long!!!
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2014, 06:49:57 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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I find it amusing when folks mention that Rondo is "flawed" as an indictment against him.  Really?  He's flawed?

Are there any human beings--even professional athletes--who are without flaws?  Is getting a flawless basketball player on the Celtics the only acceptable way for this franchise to move forward?

Good luck with that, everyone.

I'm going to keep rooting for the flawed players on this team to succeed and help the team scrape together some wins in the meantime. 

I'm sure the perfect player will be along soon enough as long as we keep losing hard enough.

DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Stood behind this team too long!!!
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2014, 06:53:07 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Your dogged persistence and loyalty sure are admirable, DesertDweller.  It is quite an accomplishment that you managed to stand behind this team for a whole twelve games. 

DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Stood behind this team too long!!!
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2014, 06:55:11 PM »

Offline mctyson

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I find it amusing when folks mention that Rondo is "flawed" as an indictment against him.  Really?  He's flawed?

Being a starting guard in the NBA and shooting 30% FTs is not a flaw, it's a disaster.

But please, give me all the reasons why he deserves a max contract. 

Re: Stood behind this team too long!!!
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2014, 07:02:17 PM »

Offline Nerf DPOY

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Why?

Really it is quite simple....in the NBA in the 4th quarter, your best player has the ball in his hands and is expected to make plays and shots.

If you are going to say that Rondo is our best player, then you also should expect him to be THAT GUY.  And he can't be THAT GUY because he CAN'T SHOOT.

More importantly, in the 4th quarter, teams that win have guys that can draw fouls and get to the line.  Our best player, who always has the ball, not only doesn't get to the line but when he does, shoots FTs worse than a bad high school player.

Being 30% from the line is inexcusable.  Sorry.  And that is KILLLING  this team.

There are many different problems that are KILLING this team. Rondo from the line is just one of them.

How many threads have been lamenting our lack of a rim protector? Pretty much everyone agrees that this team doesn't have an acceptable starting center.

Rondo played well in the Portland game, but Bradley,Sullinger, and Green were a collective 5-21 from 3 point land. Bradley and Sullinger have both been very inconsistent from deep in the early going.

Olynyk's been useless the last several games outside the 3rd quarter in Memphis. I wouldn't be surprised if he lost his starting spot to Bass who's outplayed him lately.

Any time Turner and Pressey come in and don't kill us, that's like found money.

Now Rondo isn't an ISO guy, and he was miserable in the 4th quarter today, but this practice of scapegoating player du jour after every loss has already gotten tired, and it's only November.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 07:14:30 PM by Nerf DPOY »

Re: Stood behind this team too long!!!
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2014, 07:06:12 PM »

Offline Rhyso

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Why?

Might as well just get it out of the way now because you know the copy & paste is coming if there isn't a full out ignore here.

Quote
We have a higher winning percentage without Rondo than with him over the last three years.

Rondo ranked 29th and 26th in PER for all point guards over the last two years.

Trade him now, while he still has some value.

 2011-12
w/out
8 wins 5 losses
win percentage 62%

with
31 wins 22 losses
win percentage 58%

2012-13
w/out
21 wins 17 losses
win percentage 55%

with
20 wins 23 losses
win percentage 46%

2013-14
w/out
19 wins 33 loses
win percentage 36%

with
6 wins 24 losses
win percentage 20%

I guess stats do not lie, however it doesn't take into account other players stepping up for short periods of time when a player is out. When a team knows a key player will be out for a game or several, others players will step up and perform at a higher level to compensate. The difference is good players do it consistently and when it matters, while the other players struggle to maintain that level of performance. I mean this is the NBA, any single player can go off on any night.

Example, Rondo gets suspended for game 2 against the hawks in the 2012 playoffs, Pierce steps up explodes for 36-14-4, but without Rondo we don't get to ECF Game 7. Basically the logic here is, we lost the first game with Rondo, Rondo missed the second game and we won, so he does not help us win.

Re: Stood behind this team too long!!!
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2014, 07:11:04 PM »

Offline Sixth Man

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Why?

Really it is quite simple....in the NBA in the 4th quarter, your best player has the ball in his hands and is expected to make plays and shots.

If you are going to say that Rondo is our best player, then you also should expect him to be THAT GUY.  And he can't be THAT GUY because he CAN'T SHOOT.

More importantly, in the 4th quarter, teams that win have guys that can draw fouls and get to the line.  Our best player, who always has the ball, not only doesn't get to the line but when he does, shoots FTs worse than a bad high school player.

Being 30% from the line is inexcusable.  Sorry.  And that is KILLLING  this team.

There are many different problems that are KILLING this team. Rondo from the line is just one of them.

How many threads have been lamenting our lack of a rim protector. Pretty much everyone agrees that this team doesn't have an acceptable starting center.

Rondo played well in the Portland game, but Bradley,Sullinger, and Green were a collective 5-21 from 3 point land. Bradley and Sullinger have both been very inconsistent from deep in the early going.

Olynyk's been useless the last several games outside the 3rd quarter in Memphis. I wouldn't be surprised if he lost his starting spot to Bass who's outplayed him lately.

Any time Turner and Pressey come in and don't kill us, that's like found money.

Now Rondo isn't an ISO guy, and he was miserable in the 4th quarter today, but this practice of scapegoating player du jour after every loss has already gotten tired, and it's only November.

Agree 100% with the bolded statement.  After each and every loss they are lined up here with lanterns and pitchforks, ready to move on the target du jour...

Re: Stood behind this team too long!!!
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2014, 07:16:37 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Why?

Really it is quite simple....in the NBA in the 4th quarter, your best player has the ball in his hands and is expected to make plays and shots.

If you are going to say that Rondo is our best player, then you also should expect him to be THAT GUY.  And he can't be THAT GUY because he CAN'T SHOOT.

More importantly, in the 4th quarter, teams that win have guys that can draw fouls and get to the line.  Our best player, who always has the ball, not only doesn't get to the line but when he does, shoots FTs worse than a bad high school player.

Being 30% from the line is inexcusable.  Sorry.  And that is KILLLING  this team.

I'm on board with the idea that we don't have anyone who can get to the line, but your second paragraph, although it contains words entirely made up of capital letters, is completely false.

There's nothing about being the best player that says you have to be a go-to scorer except for millions of dollars of Nike advertising and brand management. Kevin Garnett was our best player when we won in 2008, but he was not, to use your parlance, THAT GUY.


If you think this team would be better, in a basketball sense, with Rondo sitting, then I would very strongly question your ability to judge the game at all. That's not the same thing as saying I'd give him a max contract -- I'm on record being vehemently against it, in fact -- and it's not to say that this team wouldn't benefit from a player who can actually score the basketball on his own, but one would assume that you'd want your best players on the floor in an effort to win games, and there isn't a five man lineup that the Celtics could cobble together right now that doesn't get better if trade out someone for Rondo, strictly on the basis of talent: which is what wins basketball games.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Stood behind this team too long!!!
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2014, 07:17:39 PM »

Offline loco_91

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I'm so sick of the rondo hating. I would trade him for the right package because I'm high on Smart and don't think this team can contend in the next few years. But why the hate??? This team is clearly outperforming expectations this year, and although the record doesn't show it, they've had a lot of close losses against good teams. Their offense has been 1000000 times better than last year's, and it's due in large part to Rondo being back. When Pressey or Turner has had to run the show, it has NOT been pretty. We can debate about whether Rondo is 'elite' or not, whether he deserves the max or not, but let's not pretend that he isn't a great player, a great competitor, and an awesomely fun player to watch.

Re: Stood behind this team too long!!!
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2014, 07:19:41 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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I find it amusing when folks mention that Rondo is "flawed" as an indictment against him.  Really?  He's flawed?

Being a starting guard in the NBA and shooting 30% FTs is not a flaw, it's a disaster.

But please, give me all the reasons why he deserves a max contract.

As I've never claimed that he deserves a max contract, I don't see any point in asking me to defend that position. 

I do like him a lot as a player, though, and hope he stays a Celtic for a very long time. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Stood behind this team too long!!!
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2014, 07:20:24 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I'm so sick of the rondo hating. I would trade him for the right package because I'm high on Smart and don't think this team can contend in the next few years. But why the hate??? This team is clearly outperforming expectations this year, and although the record doesn't show it, they've had a lot of close losses against good teams. Their offense has been 1000000 times better than last year's, and it's due in large part to Rondo being back. When Pressey or Turner has had to run the show, it has NOT been pretty. We can debate about whether Rondo is 'elite' or not, whether he deserves the max or not, but let's not pretend that he isn't a great player, a great competitor, and an awesomely fun player to watch.

No Pressey has the best +/- of all time I heard.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Stood behind this team too long!!!
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2014, 07:28:09 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I find it amusing when folks mention that Rondo is "flawed" as an indictment against him.  Really?  He's flawed?

Are there any human beings--even professional athletes--who are without flaws?  Is getting a flawless basketball player on the Celtics the only acceptable way for this franchise to move forward?

Good luck with that, everyone.

I'm going to keep rooting for the flawed players on this team to succeed and help the team scrape together some wins in the meantime. 

I'm sure the perfect player will be along soon enough as long as we keep losing hard enough.



Also, I'm completely flawless.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Stood behind this team too long!!!
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2014, 07:30:45 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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I find it amusing when folks mention that Rondo is "flawed" as an indictment against him.  Really?  He's flawed?

Are there any human beings--even professional athletes--who are without flaws?  Is getting a flawless basketball player on the Celtics the only acceptable way for this franchise to move forward?

Good luck with that, everyone.

I'm going to keep rooting for the flawed players on this team to succeed and help the team scrape together some wins in the meantime. 

I'm sure the perfect player will be along soon enough as long as we keep losing hard enough.



Also, I'm completely flawless.

Obviously.
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Stood behind this team too long!!!
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2014, 07:50:40 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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What would Rondo be if he was throwing passes all night to Jamaal Crawford, JJ Reddick and Blake Griffin with Deandre Jordan manning the 5?   Do you think the C's might be closer to the Clips 9-5 than to their current 4-9? 

Rondo may indeed be moved to improve the C's future, but even a trade of Rondo for a superstar like Chris Paul would neither make the C's championship contenders nor the Clips a sub .500 team. 

Rondo is a talent -- an assett to any team that could put a strong, experienced team around him.   Danny may decide to use Rondo as a trade asset or he can use other assets to build with Rondo.   I don't really care which way he goes because I think either approach could work.  I just hope he builds a contender in the next 3-5 years.   

My opinion, FWIW, is that RR is terrific, unique and, like most very good NBA players, flawed. He is all-star caliber, but not superstar or max contract caliber.  Whatever DA decides to do with him, I'm glad we have him.

Re: Stood behind this team too long!!!
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2014, 08:00:44 PM »

Offline Birdman

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Rondo hasn't got All-Stars players around him like Pierce, Allen, and KG..Thats makes a huge difference
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin