Poll

POLL: If we could get Josh Smith on the cheap, would you trade for him if you were Ainge?

Yes
25 (32.5%)
No
52 (67.5%)

Total Members Voted: 77

Author Topic: POLL: Josh Smith benched by Van Gundy: do we want him?  (Read 21545 times)

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Re: POLL: Josh Smith benched by Van Gundy: do we want him?
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2014, 02:47:26 PM »

Offline loco_91

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I've never been a fan of Smith's game, but if the price tag is low enough, I'm all for it. Clearly we need help defensively, and Smith can do it for us. A few notes:
-Smith absolutely must play the 4. He is not a combo-forward by any means.
-Smith can help us retain Rondo, and hopefully Rondo can help Smith tame his chucking ways.
-Stevens should bench him every time he shoots a >12ft jumper. I think after a few games like that, he'll learn.
-On the other hand, Stevens hasn't exactly been one to discourage bad shooters from shooting. Will Smith be resentful if he isn't allowed to shoot 3's but Sully and Smart are?

Re: POLL: Josh Smith benched by Van Gundy: do we want him?
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2014, 02:48:19 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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No. I really like Josh Smith but Boston already has Olynyk and Sullinger at PF. Two of the top young prospects on the team already at his position.

Smith is going to be a great bargain for someone but Boston is not the right team. Smith would hurt the development of our best young talent.

Pretty much my sentiments too. As I posted in the other thread Smith has a world of talent, playing alongside Green and Rondo would be a great great team to watch. Unless we were able to turn Sully a pick and an expiring into a legit top 5 or 10 center, then I don't see the need for Smith unfortunately.

Too bad Smith wasn't 6 11 or 7 feet. Then it would be a yes in a heartbeat.
My opinion flip-flopped twice in the seconds it took me to read your post.  FIrst I was like, "Sure we could use him" to "Nah we don't really need him" to "Who cares if we don't need him"...

Smith is still a talent.  For the right price, you'd have to consider it.  Like a lot of people here, I'm starting to drink the Sully/Olynyk kool aid.   I'm not sure if it's latent homerism or Stockholm Syndrome, but I'm starting to see those guys as future starting PFs.  Clearly neither is a Center, though.   So it doesn't make much sense bringing in Smith (even at a bargain price of Wallace and picks) when we already have at least one starting PF on the team.    That said... it's still unlikely Sully or Oly become all-star players.  If you could get Smith for dirt cheap, that would then free you up to make a big swing for a defensive center by dangling Sully, Oly or both.  So sure... trade for Smith if it's a good price. 

Re: POLL: Josh Smith benched by Van Gundy: do we want him?
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2014, 03:00:31 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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The reasons that let to SVG benching Josh Smith will probably still exist no matter where he goes.  A few benchings probably won't fix that.  I'd like to see a coach being willing to punish him by giving him some healthy DNPs.
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Re: POLL: Josh Smith benched by Van Gundy: do we want him?
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2014, 03:10:01 PM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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The two positions the Celtics are set at are PG and PF and yet 90% of the trade suggestions on the forums here are for PGs and PFs

/and no, Josh Smith is not a Small Forward

Re: POLL: Josh Smith benched by Van Gundy: do we want him?
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2014, 03:26:43 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Brings up some interesting points.

I don't think Smith is unsalvagable. However, we are exactly the wrong team to get him. I would not trade for him unless other dominoes were going to fall immediately before or after. This also speaks to one of the unfortunate realities of our roster construction. Yes, I do believe we have some talented players. Unfortunately, the best talents, namely Sullinger, Olynyk, Rondo, and Smart are first of all redundant of each other, and second of all, all play the deepest positions in the league (PG and offensive PFs). If you want to look deeper, I bet the fact they play the deepest positions relates to how they slipped to us, etc. Unfortunately, this suppresses their trade value, because a lot of teams either have better or similar talent at those positions or can get 80-90% of those players at lower cost. Also unfortunately, it means the pieces we need to add (upper tier wing, upper tier C preferably with defense) are the harder pieces to find and acquire. I'd rather be set at the 5 and wing and need to find a PG and a millsap/sully type in today's NBA market.

Now, about Smith: He is a tried and true PF through and through, and the mistake has always been treating him like a 3/4. He is a 4. Maybe, as the previous poster suggested, even a small 5 in a sully/smith lineup. He is very good on the block and a great defender. He is very athletic. He is a terrible shooter, and it's not necessarily just about bball IQ, but when he is playing with monroe and drummond, he just shoots the open shots from the space where he can navigate; when those guys are in, all he can do is get open on the perimeter. That's coaching and roster build.

Our roster would be best if we could add Drummond instead. But this is not happening. I kind of like monroe, but I absolutely would not trade for him since he is a UFA with no bird rights. If Wallace is in a trade AND green declines his option we could probably afford to sign him and still re-sign rondo, but it would be hard, and we'd still then need a SF. He still wouldn'd really bolster the frontcourt defense, and if we ended up with Monroe, Smith, Sully, we'd have the same problem as Det.

In summary, keeping olynyk and sully and trading for Smith would probably not make sense unless we actually think very small ball would work. It's actually kind of fun sounding. Smith needs to be a 4, he is a failure at the 3, and an unknown at the 5. Now, if somehow you dealt sully and olynyk for a stud C, then yeah, he's probably still an above average at least PF.


The other possibility is a multi team deal. For example, I don't much like Kantor because he's a little plodding, has stagnated some, and his defense is suspect but he's a real C at 22 yrs giving you a 13/6.6 in 24 minutes. Now, Favors has always been a binky of mine and i would have given up quite a bit for him earlier; unfortunately he looks good enough now that he's unlikely to be traded, with a 16.3/8.2/1.5blks in 31 minutes for a 23.7 PER as a 23 year old.

But let's say Det just wants Wallace and a protected pick for Smith (they just want him gone). Then give Smith to Utah. Utah gives Kanter to us, and they get better roster balance. Or, Smith goes to Utah and we send Olynyk to Utah with a pick as well for Favors.

Re: POLL: Josh Smith benched by Van Gundy: do we want him?
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2014, 03:54:01 PM »

Offline PickNRoll

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The problem isn't the position or the system.  It's Josh Smith.  He outright refuses to listen -- either that or his many coaches have been telling him to chuck from 18+ for 10 years.

Re: POLL: Josh Smith benched by Van Gundy: do we want him?
« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2014, 04:14:25 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Could you imagine J Smoove and Melo on same team......and you have to coach ..to WIN......

No way Danny puts a player like that on his prize young coach...Smith doesn't fit what this team is trying to do at all.   He belongs on grind it out team.....maybe Mavs or Bulls.   He is getting at the end of his prime years ,


With Smith ...we'd win about 6 -8 more games......just enough to miss payoff s and get a sucky draft pic.

I would have liked him back five years ago.

Meh .....I would n t trade either KO or Sully's
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 04:30:58 PM by SHAQATTACK »

Re: POLL: Josh Smith benched by Van Gundy: do we want him?
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2014, 04:40:32 PM »

Offline 2short

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Josh Smith has zero value on the market right now but remains a good player when controlled.  He 110% is NOT a Small Forward.  I mentioned on realgm over the summer that I wouldn't mind Josh Smith in Boston assuming the deal was for nothing more then Wallace/Bass/Clips pick.  I would do that deal BUT ONLY if Ainge/Stevens did the unthinkable and started Josh Smith at CENTER.  Yes, I said it.  Center. 

Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sullinger-Smith
Smart-Thornton-Turner-Olynyk-Zeller

Here is why I would want Smith on this roster as our starting Center.  Keep an open mind folks.  First of all he's long and athletic and brings very good defensive instincts.  He can block shots down low and trailing from behind.  He is excellent in transition.  Solid rebounder.  And he is effective as a lefty in the post.  Putting him at Center limits his exposure to the 3pt line and deep 2.  He would be a mis-match nightmare for opposing Centers.  Imagine Roy Hibbert trying to keep up with Smith?  Exactly.  Also, on the defensive side of the ball you can put Smith on a PF with Sully, KO, Zeller shifting over to defend the opposing teams Center. 

It's a brilliant move.  Especially in todays game.  Now if Boston somehow lands Marc Gasol Via free agency or lands Jahil in the draft...fine.  those guys would play Center...then you could shift Smith to PF and use Sully and or KO as trade bait to improve the wing position.  acquiring Smith doesn't really limit you elsewhere..  Plus, Rondo would be happy
hmmm
i was easily going to say no to smith as he isn't efficient, won't play within team game, pure enigma but you have a very very interesting idea

Re: POLL: Josh Smith benched by Van Gundy: do we want him?
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2014, 06:38:28 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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if Monroe was part of the deal with say new trade being Wallace, Bass, Turner and Sully for Smith and Monroe the team should really think about it even with no guarantee of resigning Monroe.

Rondo, AB, Green, Smith, Monroe as starters is a better group. Also bench is better with Smart, Thornton, Young, Olynyk, Zeller.

I'm for the Smith with Monroe deal.



this would be much more difficult to turn down.  I think the big negative on it is the lack of bird rights to sign Monroe. 

as for the deal for Smith by himself, while he's certainly more talented than what the C's are sending out, we've got 2 PFs I'd rather play ahead of him.  I don't want Smith at the 3 and he's not going to pass for a C.   I'll give him the nod over Sully in terms of D but Sully's better at everything else.  He's better than KO on D and rebounding but KO is much better on offense.

mentioned in the other thread I'd like to see Danny go for a center instead.  if he horned in on a deal to say flip Josh to Utah for one of Favors/Kanter/Gobert while giving up minor pieces, I'd be all for it.  2 years ago I'd have been all over a deal for Josh but with Sully's development and KO showing progress, I don't see acquiring Josh as taking a major step forward.
I don't think any one would consider sending Sully or Olynyk for Smith. But in getting Monroe he would be what you are trading Sully for a center. Smith gives an interior shot blocking presence C's lack. Gobert and Favors aren't going any where and Kanter isn't a shot blocker. Think Smith with Monroe deal may be best deal possible this year to compete.

Why would you trade three years of cheap control of Sullinger for Monroe when you could just sign Monroe as a free agent next summer?

Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't mind adding Monroe.  And I wouldn't mind trading for him to get him a little earlier than next summer.  But because he has effective "No Trade" power and because he will be a non-Bird Rights, unrestricted free agent next summer whether traded or not, Detroit has almost NO trading leverage for him.   There is no reason to give up any asset of significant value to trade for Monroe.  If he wants to come here, offer Detroit some nominal piece to make it happen early, sure.  But otherwise, they can't stop him from walking next summer anyway.

You give up Sully for Monroe because he is a Center that is the gamble. Also if trade clause (Monroe blocking trade) and Bird rights (A team signing him to over cap or 5 years) are so important then that tells us there is no shot at any one signing him out right as a FA. Which I do not believe is the case do you? So... Basically the trade clause and bird rights are not an issue if he is dealt to a team that will have cap space like the C's.

Re: POLL: Josh Smith benched by Van Gundy: do we want him?
« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2014, 07:39:59 PM »

Offline 2short

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I think the lakers could go after him for nash's contract….yeah those two together will work for them

Re: POLL: Josh Smith benched by Van Gundy: do we want him?
« Reply #40 on: November 20, 2014, 08:23:21 PM »

Offline Smartacus

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I'd take Smith on the Celtics, especially if we were to also move on from Sullinger as part of the deal. We already have a PF that chucks ill advised threes at low efficiency, IMO your better off having one that can play high level defense.

I think Sullinger would be a nice fit next too Drummond, he has the leadership and intensity that Drummond lacks and could clean up all those Brandon Jennings bricks(although he's having a better season).

Meanwhile I like a Josh Smith and Kelly Olynyk front court, it's a good blend of fundamental intangibles and talent. Alot of times the middle stop in a career can be an afterthought. Zach Randolph went from a talented malcontent in Portland, to borderline out of the league in New York, too one of the most consistent PF's in the NBA with Memphis.  He was a force when he was right in Atlanta and there isn't anyone better at the clutch game wining tip ins. It'd be great to see Josh Smith reignite his career in Boston.

Re: POLL: Josh Smith benched by Van Gundy: do we want him?
« Reply #41 on: November 20, 2014, 08:41:07 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Would love Smith if we are making a trade to bring in a defensive Center, but it would for sure mean Sully or KO is out.
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Re: POLL: Josh Smith benched by Van Gundy: do we want him?
« Reply #42 on: November 20, 2014, 08:47:08 PM »

Offline Redz

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Re: POLL: Josh Smith benched by Van Gundy: do we want him?
« Reply #43 on: November 20, 2014, 09:26:58 PM »

Offline nostar

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I would have loved to have added him to Pierce and KG and Rondo. I really wanted that to happen. Our lineup in 2013 would have been:

Rondo
AB
Pierce
Smith
KG

that would have been very fun to watch.

Now I want no part of Smith. He is a worse player now, on a long deal for more than he's worth, seemingly uncoachable and has some of the worst body language in the league. This will tell you how much I don't want Smith. I wouldn't do him straight up for Wallace. That is how bad I think he's be in our locker room despite being a far superior player to Wallace. We don't have vets to manage that stress and he's not the a lost cause I'd take a chance on with such a young team.

Re: POLL: Josh Smith benched by Van Gundy: do we want him?
« Reply #44 on: November 20, 2014, 10:17:10 PM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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This will tell you how much I don't want Smith. I wouldn't do him straight up for Wallace. That is how bad I think he's be in our locker room despite being a far superior player to Wallace. We don't have vets to manage that stress and he's not the a lost cause I'd take a chance on with such a young team.

I was saying that last season, too.  He would take up our cap space longer and ultimately for more money while choking out two of our most important developing players' playing time, while giving everyone around him bad habits on top of all that.  Wallace on the other hand plays a position we need depth at, hustles every second of the game and as much as CBlog hates him, the people on this team actually seem to like him and he has real leadership skill.  I also can't emphasize enough too just how good he was in his prime.  He was unbelievable. 

I think someone with that kind of experience is valuable as a vet right now and I hope he is rubbing off on our young guys the right way.  It's also why I'm ok with Bass sticking around for now - he tries hard all game.  He stays in shape because he is a professional basketball player.  That is what our young guys need to see and it's not like we're going to be getting any less of them over the next couple of seasons.  We have 2 first rounders every draft for the next like 5 years.