Author Topic: Unimpressed with Noel  (Read 8854 times)

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Re: Unimpressed with Noel
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2014, 02:13:28 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Noel's defensive rating per 100 possessions so far is 103.  Sully's rating his rookie year was 102.
Noel's offensive rating per 100 possessions so far is 76.  KO's rating his rookie year was 107.

You're protecting stuff defensively on Noel based on his reputation and ignoring the stunning awfulness of his reality on offense.

Mike

I would say that the Noel apologists in this thread, myself included, are projecting stuff defensively on Noel based on his reputation, in spite of the stunning awfulness of his reality on offense through a very small number of NBA games. I'm definitely aware of how bad he's been.

Do keep in mind where that o-rating is coming from, by the way. Noel has so far been a high-usage option on the 76ers, and they running post ups and face ups for him despite his obvious lack of skill. The reason they are doing this is the same reason we let Sullinger bomb threes all year last year- the games don't matter and they want to develop his game.

There's definitely reason to be hopeful about Noel, given what he did in college and his apparent athletic tools.  But talking about trading Smart and KO for him without a second thought is a bit much.

Mike

I would agree. You really can't make the argument that Noel has improved his value dramatically in the 11 games that he has played. It would also seem difficult to say Smart has either hurt or helped his value in the 5 games he played. Kelly seems to, at worst, held steady value as late end lottery pick. So it seems like trading the 5th (in a much better draft) and 14th pick for a 6th pick would be kind of strange at this point.

Re: Unimpressed with Noel
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2014, 02:32:41 PM »

Offline sofutomygaha

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Noel's defensive rating per 100 possessions so far is 103.  Sully's rating his rookie year was 102.
Noel's offensive rating per 100 possessions so far is 76.  KO's rating his rookie year was 107.

You're protecting stuff defensively on Noel based on his reputation and ignoring the stunning awfulness of his reality on offense.

Mike

I would say that the Noel apologists in this thread, myself included, are projecting stuff defensively on Noel based on his reputation, in spite of the stunning awfulness of his reality on offense through a very small number of NBA games. I'm definitely aware of how bad he's been.

Do keep in mind where that o-rating is coming from, by the way. Noel has so far been a high-usage option on the 76ers, and they running post ups and face ups for him despite his obvious lack of skill. The reason they are doing this is the same reason we let Sullinger bomb threes all year last year- the games don't matter and they want to develop his game.

There's definitely reason to be hopeful about Noel, given what he did in college and his apparent athletic tools.  But talking about trading Smart and KO for him without a second thought is a bit much.

Mike

I would agree. You really can't make the argument that Noel has improved his value dramatically in the 11 games that he has played. It would also seem difficult to say Smart has either hurt or helped his value in the 5 games he played. Kelly seems to, at worst, held steady value as late end lottery pick. So it seems like trading the 5th (in a much better draft) and 14th pick for a 6th pick would be kind of strange at this point.

Hmm. Don't forget that Noel was generally considered to be a lock for the first pick in the '13 draft, were it not for his knee injury. Now that he is fully healthy, I for one would consider the discount on his draft stock to be paid in full.

Re: Unimpressed with Noel
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2014, 02:35:32 PM »

Offline TheTruthFot18

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It is only 11 games in and he is playing with the 76ers so he should get a small pass.

That being said, he looks very lost at times out there. I don't think the situation in Philly is helping as many talented but raw young players need a strong coach, gm, and veteran players around him to help develop him along the way. That's not happening there. Still think he can be good and the idea of him and embiid together in another 2-3 years could be scary.
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Re: Unimpressed with Noel
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2014, 02:45:53 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Noel's defensive rating per 100 possessions so far is 103.  Sully's rating his rookie year was 102.
Noel's offensive rating per 100 possessions so far is 76.  KO's rating his rookie year was 107.

You're protecting stuff defensively on Noel based on his reputation and ignoring the stunning awfulness of his reality on offense.

Mike

I would say that the Noel apologists in this thread, myself included, are projecting stuff defensively on Noel based on his reputation, in spite of the stunning awfulness of his reality on offense through a very small number of NBA games. I'm definitely aware of how bad he's been.

Do keep in mind where that o-rating is coming from, by the way. Noel has so far been a high-usage option on the 76ers, and they running post ups and face ups for him despite his obvious lack of skill. The reason they are doing this is the same reason we let Sullinger bomb threes all year last year- the games don't matter and they want to develop his game.

There's definitely reason to be hopeful about Noel, given what he did in college and his apparent athletic tools.  But talking about trading Smart and KO for him without a second thought is a bit much.

Mike

I would agree. You really can't make the argument that Noel has improved his value dramatically in the 11 games that he has played. It would also seem difficult to say Smart has either hurt or helped his value in the 5 games he played. Kelly seems to, at worst, held steady value as late end lottery pick. So it seems like trading the 5th (in a much better draft) and 14th pick for a 6th pick would be kind of strange at this point.

Hmm. Don't forget that Noel was generally considered to be a lock for the first pick in the '13 draft, were it not for his knee injury. Now that he is fully healthy, I for one would consider the discount on his draft stock to be paid in full.

Well it is not just the time sitting out that made his stock slip, it;s questions like:
1)  Is he more likely to reinjure?
2) Has he lost any explosiveness?

I actually didn't see the game so I can't comment on whether he has lost any lateral speed or jumping.

Re: Unimpressed with Noel
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2014, 02:55:53 PM »

Offline loco_91

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It's a little early for this thread. Most talented rookie bigs develop slowly initially. I still think he's clearly the best talent out of his draft class, and there's really nothing that could change my mind at least until we have a half-season sample.

It's also a valid point that he isn't in a very good environment for develpment. I think Hinkie and the Sixers have a great plan, but subpar player development due to lack of leadership is the one thing that could really sink them. Trading Thad maybe went a bit too far, idk how he was in the locker room though.

Re: Unimpressed with Noel
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2014, 03:12:52 PM »

Offline byennie

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Yeah he's having some issues... but 7/6/2/1.5/1.5 at 20 years old, 10 games into his career, on a mess of a team, coming off a major injury? I wouldn't exactly write him off.

I mean geez, up his minutes and very slight scoring improvements and you'd already have 10/10/3/2/2 type line. There aren't many 5 category guys like that, and it's not like he's done developing at 20.

Re: Unimpressed with Noel
« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2014, 03:23:30 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Also, have you seen his hair?
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Unimpressed with Noel
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2014, 03:52:24 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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It's a little early for this thread. Most talented rookie bigs develop slowly initially. I still think he's clearly the best talent out of his draft class, and there's really nothing that could change my mind at least until we have a half-season sample.

It's also a valid point that he isn't in a very good environment for develpment. I think Hinkie and the Sixers have a great plan, but subpar player development due to lack of leadership is the one thing that could really sink them. Trading Thad maybe went a bit too far, idk how he was in the locker room though.

This is what I have said in some other threads. I do think they have gone too far with trading away Thad and not signing just an average NBA veteran. We don't really have statistical proof of this (there are not enough teams in the NBA history that have been as bad as Philly is this year) , but it seems like when a team ends up winning 6 games on the year is really going to hurt player development and team morale. Lets also not forget that though he is now a rookie, he is in the second year of his contract. After this season he has two years left to decide if he wants to stay in this kind of environment (I don't see dramatic improvement anytime soon).

Re: Unimpressed with Noel
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2014, 03:58:55 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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It's a little early for this thread. Most talented rookie bigs develop slowly initially. I still think he's clearly the best talent out of his draft class, and there's really nothing that could change my mind at least until we have a half-season sample.

It's also a valid point that he isn't in a very good environment for develpment. I think Hinkie and the Sixers have a great plan, but subpar player development due to lack of leadership is the one thing that could really sink them. Trading Thad maybe went a bit too far, idk how he was in the locker room though.

This is what I have said in some other threads. I do think they have gone too far with trading away Thad and not signing just an average NBA veteran. We don't really have statistical proof of this (there are not enough teams in the NBA history that have been as bad as Philly is this year) , but it seems like when a team ends up winning 6 games on the year is really going to hurt player development and team morale. Lets also not forget that though he is now a rookie, he is in the second year of his contract. After this season he has two years left to decide if he wants to stay in this kind of environment (I don't see dramatic improvement anytime soon).
the contract implications is what I've commented on in other threads as well.  Philly essentially lost a year of his services and the same is happening with Embiid.  one less year of actually playing for them.  I would be fairly surprised if one or both of them doesn't play for their QO to hit free agency faster so they can go somewhere better.

Re: Unimpressed with Noel
« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2014, 04:01:31 PM »

Offline soulman

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i would bring Noel and Wroten to Celtics... ;D

Re: Unimpressed with Noel
« Reply #40 on: November 20, 2014, 04:20:41 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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As long as they're being offered a big contract at market rate I'd be shocked to see them play out for the QO.

Its incredibly rare for players to play for the QO and Philly will have tons of salary room to pay them both. I'd be shocked if either did that, how many players do?

Jeff Green was going to, Monroe is doing so, and Ben Gordan did. Anyone else of note?

Re: Unimpressed with Noel
« Reply #41 on: November 20, 2014, 04:42:25 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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The " Praying Mantis"

Or STICK  MAN .....

Needs ALOT of work.....right now he reminds me of Scott Williams ...jumping around everywhere . ;D

Bouncing and hoping around  like a Po go stick.

If can jump.....yeah....because he weights nothing for a 7 ft man. 

Most center s like Howard and Lopzes will crush him like a bug ..

Shaqs one leg is bigger than his waist.

He is just too frail looking to be a center . 

It may take four years and then he maybe scott Williams.

Re: Unimpressed with Noel
« Reply #42 on: November 20, 2014, 05:11:03 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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As long as they're being offered a big contract at market rate I'd be shocked to see them play out for the QO.

Its incredibly rare for players to play for the QO and Philly will have tons of salary room to pay them both. I'd be shocked if either did that, how many players do?

Jeff Green was going to, Monroe is doing so, and Ben Gordan did. Anyone else of note?

Trying to find comparisons of what people have done in the past is kind of useless because, as I mentioned above, there is really nothing in the history of the NBA of a team doing what the 76ers are doing right now.

Put it another way, of the players who missed their entire rookie campaign, then played for a team that won 6 and 13 games in their second and third seasons, how many of them stayed with that putrid team?

Re: Unimpressed with Noel
« Reply #43 on: November 20, 2014, 06:36:19 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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As long as they're being offered a big contract at market rate I'd be shocked to see them play out for the QO.

Its incredibly rare for players to play for the QO and Philly will have tons of salary room to pay them both. I'd be shocked if either did that, how many players do?

Jeff Green was going to, Monroe is doing so, and Ben Gordan did. Anyone else of note?

Trying to find comparisons of what people have done in the past is kind of useless because, as I mentioned above, there is really nothing in the history of the NBA of a team doing what the 76ers are doing right now.

Put it another way, of the players who missed their entire rookie campaign, then played for a team that won 6 and 13 games in their second and third seasons, how many of them stayed with that putrid team?

Are we really sure they are going to win as many as 6 games this year?
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Unimpressed with Noel
« Reply #44 on: November 20, 2014, 06:37:36 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Nerlins will be expendable when Emibidd returns to full power