Sullinger playing like a borderline All-Star

[KeepRondo]

The East isn't packed with dominant bigs this year.

It isn't?

Let's see, Vucevic, Gasol, Bosh, Love, Al Jefferson, and Tobias Harris are all putting together vastly superior seasons to Sullinger at this point. And then you have guys like Millsap, Hibbert, Horford, and even Gortat that are roughly comparable to Sullinger.

Not only is he not "borderline allstar" this year, I'd hazard a guess that at this point he has about zero chance of making it in.

How are Tobias Harris and Vucevic having vastly superior seasons? You could say they are having better seasons but I'd argue that Sullinger's numbers are better considering those guys are playing 5-6 more minutes per game. Also, since Tobias Harris is having a vastly superior season, would you then trade Sullinger for him?

[TheFlex]

The East isn't packed with dominant bigs this year.

It isn't?

Let's see, Vucevic, Gasol, Bosh, Love, Al Jefferson, and Tobias Harris are all putting together vastly superior seasons to Sullinger at this point. And then you have guys like Millsap, Hibbert, Horford, and even Gortat that are roughly comparable to Sullinger.

Not only is he not "borderline allstar" this year, I'd hazard a guess that at this point he has about zero chance of making it in.

How are Tobias Harris and Vucevic having vastly superior seasons? You could say they are having better seasons but I'd argue that Sullinger's numbers are better considering those guys are playing 5-6 more minutes per game. Also, since Tobias Harris is having a vastly superior season, would you then trade Sullinger for him?

I think Vucevic is having a great season because of his rebounding numbers. Rebounding isn't typically affected much when you're playing on a winning team and thus with better players who need to touch the ball more. Harris, though, seems like a classic case of good stats/bad team. He's a good rebounder, but his assist numbers are poor for a small forward and even in comparison to Sullinger. His claim to fame right now is his scoring average, which will experience a decline when he's playing next to or behind better players.

The reason to get excited about Sullinger is that he's impacting the game in a way that doesn't require lots of touches or extended control of the ball. If he can continue developing his midrange jumper and become a two-pronged threat in the P&R and sustain his assist/offensive rebounding numbers, we may have something in him.

[Beat LA]

No, he's not.

Sully is playing like a starting caliber big man but nowhere near All-Star level.

Exactly, Sully is a very good NBA player but if he is your first or second best player on the team then that means that team is not that good. He is not an all-star.

He's 22 years old...

There may be a valid argument that Sullinger does not have All-Star potential but I have yet to hear it. Young forwards playing at the level he is now that still have skills in the process of development (in his case, a mid-range jumper) are not typically brushed off as Sully is by some members of this board. Again, he's not Kevin Love. But saying he could become a Zach Randolph-type isn't exactly unrealistic from my point of view.

I think I agree with the people who compare him to Paul Millsap, even though he's a much better rebounder and passer.  Is that disappointing?  Yeah, a little, as I was hoping that he'd turn into a Boozer/David West type, but he almost never plays inside so how would we know if he's improved his post moves lol?  Still, like you said, he's only 22, and, quite honestly, he's putting up 15/9/3 with few plays being called for him, so take from that what you will.  I'd just like to see how he plays when he isn't forced to play as a center.  Even if Hassan Whiteside was playing next to him, at least Sully would be able to play his true position of power forward, but we'll see.

[TheFlex]

No, he's not.

Sully is playing like a starting caliber big man but nowhere near All-Star level.

Exactly, Sully is a very good NBA player but if he is your first or second best player on the team then that means that team is not that good. He is not an all-star.

He's 22 years old...

There may be a valid argument that Sullinger does not have All-Star potential but I have yet to hear it. Young forwards playing at the level he is now that still have skills in the process of development (in his case, a mid-range jumper) are not typically brushed off as Sully is by some members of this board. Again, he's not Kevin Love. But saying he could become a Zach Randolph-type isn't exactly unrealistic from my point of view.

I think I agree with the people who compare him to Paul Millsap, even though he's a much better rebounder and passer.  Is that disappointing?  Yeah, a little, as I was hoping that he'd turn into a Boozer/David West type, but he almost never plays inside so how would we know if he's improved his post moves lol?  Still, like you said, he's only 22, and, quite honestly, he's putting up 15/9/3 with few plays being called for him, so take from that what you will.  I'd just like to see how he plays when he isn't forced to play as a center.  Even if Hassan Whiteside was playing next to him, at least Sully would be able to play his true position of power forward, but we'll see.

I dunno... Paul Millsap with better passing and rebounding skills sounds pretty good to me 

[pearljammer10]

If he is able to get in shape then he might be a borderline all star. Until that happens he is just hurting himself and his potential.

[TheFlex]

If he is able to get in shape then he might be a borderline all star. Until that happens he is just hurting himself and his potential.

Seems to be progressing just fine to me.

[Beat LA]

No, he's not.

Sully is playing like a starting caliber big man but nowhere near All-Star level.

Exactly, Sully is a very good NBA player but if he is your first or second best player on the team then that means that team is not that good. He is not an all-star.

He's 22 years old...

There may be a valid argument that Sullinger does not have All-Star potential but I have yet to hear it. Young forwards playing at the level he is now that still have skills in the process of development (in his case, a mid-range jumper) are not typically brushed off as Sully is by some members of this board. Again, he's not Kevin Love. But saying he could become a Zach Randolph-type isn't exactly unrealistic from my point of view.

I think I agree with the people who compare him to Paul Millsap, even though he's a much better rebounder and passer.  Is that disappointing?  Yeah, a little, as I was hoping that he'd turn into a Boozer/David West type, but he almost never plays inside so how would we know if he's improved his post moves lol?  Still, like you said, he's only 22, and, quite honestly, he's putting up 15/9/3 with few plays being called for him, so take from that what you will.  I'd just like to see how he plays when he isn't forced to play as a center.  Even if Hassan Whiteside was playing next to him, at least Sully would be able to play his true position of power forward, but we'll see.

I dunno... Paul Millsap with better passing and rebounding skills sounds pretty good to me 

I mean I guess.  I was just selfishly hoping for more, like everyone else is/was.  Sigh.  Like you said, though, he's still only 22.  I just want to see him in the post instead of on the perimeter, because he's probably the only guy (other than Jeff Green at times) who can draw a double team, but I guess that that's not how Stevens plays the game.  Sigh.

[tarheelsxxiii]

I assume it's flying under the radar because good players on bad teams aren't worth very much excitement.

Pretty much this.

DMC was shrugged at around the league till this year when the Kings started winning some games. If they fall back to earth he'll be shrugged at again..

This is true, but I was referring more to the lack of excitement within our own Celtics fan community. James Young comes in and hits one three and suddenly he's the next Klay Thompson, yet Sully's posting 15/9/3 and can hardly get any love. I guess the more they play, the less we like them 

In limited minutes. Someone please look up his 36 min adjustment. Been saying this for 2 seasons now... he's borderline all-star caliber player in the East.

[BballTim]

I assume it's flying under the radar because good players on bad teams aren't worth very much excitement.

Pretty much this.

DMC was shrugged at around the league till this year when the Kings started winning some games. If they fall back to earth he'll be shrugged at again..

This is true, but I was referring more to the lack of excitement within our own Celtics fan community. James Young comes in and hits one three and suddenly he's the next Klay Thompson, yet Sully's posting 15/9/3 and can hardly get any love. I guess the more they play, the less we like them 

In limited minutes. Someone please look up his 36 min adjustment. Been saying this for 2 seasons now... he's borderline all-star caliber player in the East.

  Right now he's one of 8 players in the league who averages 18/10 per36, one of only 3 in the east.

[kozlodoev]

In limited minutes. Someone please look up his 36 min adjustment. Been saying this for 2 seasons now... he's borderline all-star caliber player in the East.

Tyler Zeller and Marcus Thornton are averaging 18 pp36 "in limited minutes". Perhaps they're "borderline all-stars" too?

Actually playing the time is part of the equation.

[JBcat]

In limited minutes. Someone please look up his 36 min adjustment. Been saying this for 2 seasons now... he's borderline all-star caliber player in the East.

Tyler Zeller and Marcus Thornton are averaging 18 pp36 "in limited minutes". Perhaps they're "borderline all-stars" too?

Actually playing the time is part of the equation.

However Thornton and Zeller are playing against mostly other bench players.  That matters too.

[kozlodoev]

In limited minutes. Someone please look up his 36 min adjustment. Been saying this for 2 seasons now... he's borderline all-star caliber player in the East.

Tyler Zeller and Marcus Thornton are averaging 18 pp36 "in limited minutes". Perhaps they're "borderline all-stars" too?

Actually playing the time is part of the equation.

However Thornton and Zeller are playing against mostly other bench players.  That matters too.

Right, that must be why they won't make the ASG. 

[pearljammer10]

If he is able to get in shape then he might be a borderline all star. Until that happens he is just hurting himself and his potential.

Seems to be progressing just fine to me.

I assume it's flying under the radar because good players on bad teams aren't worth very much excitement.

Pretty much this.

DMC was shrugged at around the league till this year when the Kings started winning some games. If they fall back to earth he'll be shrugged at again..

This is true, but I was referring more to the lack of excitement within our own Celtics fan community. James Young comes in and hits one three and suddenly he's the next Klay Thompson, yet Sully's posting 15/9/3 and can hardly get any love. I guess the more they play, the less we like them 

In limited minutes. Someone please look up his 36 min adjustment. Been saying this for 2 seasons now... he's borderline all-star caliber player in the East.

  Right now he's one of 8 players in the league who averages 18/10 per36, one of only 3 in the east.

This is my point. His minutes are "limited" because he can't stay on the court for 36 minutes a game. Which brings me back to my original comment. If he was able to get in shape he might be a borderline all star, but since he can't get in shape and can't stay on the court for those 36 minutes, those PER36 stats mean nothing to me.

Jusuf Nurkic is averaging 17 points and 15 rebounds per 36 minutes. And to me that basically means, "So what?"

[Monkhouse]

I'm not a huge fan of the PER 36 argument... We use that to define every player's potential/statistics, but the truth of the matter is, Jared doesn't play 36, because he isn't conditioned well enough to play that many heavy minutes.

I like Sully. I would rather keep him than KO, simply cause while KO looks more fluid, and a little more agile on ball handling. I like Sully when he defends, and when he crashes the board, because it shows how much effort he puts out on the floor.

I'm beginning to think while Sully will never be a Kevin Love, I can see him more of a Z-Bo/David West that can occasionally hit 3's, and with far better passing. Yes he's playing like a borderline Allstar, and given that any of the bigs on the East have injury histories, (including Sully himself,) there is a possibility in the future someone could get injured, and Sully can take over his spot.

I think if Sully rounded out to 16.4 PPG, around 9-10 RPG, and 3-4 APG, that it'll look far attractive than a player with 18/10.

That said, Sully needs to work on his 3 pt shot, and his post game. He needs to learn a thing or two from KO on how to be more craftier inside, or he's just going to keep getting blocked inside or heavily contested.

Z-Bo isn't that strong either, but knows how to finish, and Sully has a great touch inside, just not as accurate in finishing. 

If he is able to get in shape then he might be a borderline all star. Until that happens he is just hurting himself and his potential.

Seems to be progressing just fine to me.

I assume it's flying under the radar because good players on bad teams aren't worth very much excitement.

Pretty much this.

DMC was shrugged at around the league till this year when the Kings started winning some games. If they fall back to earth he'll be shrugged at again..

This is true, but I was referring more to the lack of excitement within our own Celtics fan community. James Young comes in and hits one three and suddenly he's the next Klay Thompson, yet Sully's posting 15/9/3 and can hardly get any love. I guess the more they play, the less we like them 

In limited minutes. Someone please look up his 36 min adjustment. Been saying this for 2 seasons now... he's borderline all-star caliber player in the East.

  Right now he's one of 8 players in the league who averages 18/10 per36, one of only 3 in the east.

This is my point. His minutes are "limited" because he can't stay on the court for 36 minutes a game. Which brings me back to my original comment. If he was able to get in shape he might be a borderline all star, but since he can't get in shape and can't stay on the court for those 36 minutes, those PER36 stats mean nothing to me.

Jusuf Nurkic is averaging 17 points and 15 rebounds per 36 minutes. And to me that basically means, "So what?"

Yup. PER 36 is the most flawed stat when trying to argue a players actual stats. I like the improved passing of Sully. I think passing in team offenses really create chemistry, because players feel like they can be trusted, and in turn will be less selfish when getting the touches they need.

[TheFlex]

If he is able to get in shape then he might be a borderline all star. Until that happens he is just hurting himself and his potential.

Seems to be progressing just fine to me.

I assume it's flying under the radar because good players on bad teams aren't worth very much excitement.

Pretty much this.

DMC was shrugged at around the league till this year when the Kings started winning some games. If they fall back to earth he'll be shrugged at again..

This is true, but I was referring more to the lack of excitement within our own Celtics fan community. James Young comes in and hits one three and suddenly he's the next Klay Thompson, yet Sully's posting 15/9/3 and can hardly get any love. I guess the more they play, the less we like them 

In limited minutes. Someone please look up his 36 min adjustment. Been saying this for 2 seasons now... he's borderline all-star caliber player in the East.

  Right now he's one of 8 players in the league who averages 18/10 per36, one of only 3 in the east.

This is my point. His minutes are "limited" because he can't stay on the court for 36 minutes a game. Which brings me back to my original comment. If he was able to get in shape he might be a borderline all star, but since he can't get in shape and can't stay on the court for those 36 minutes, those PER36 stats mean nothing to me.

Jusuf Nurkic is averaging 17 points and 15 rebounds per 36 minutes. And to me that basically means, "So what?"

In limited minutes. Someone please look up his 36 min adjustment. Been saying this for 2 seasons now... he's borderline all-star caliber player in the East.

Tyler Zeller and Marcus Thornton are averaging 18 pp36 "in limited minutes". Perhaps they're "borderline all-stars" too?

Actually playing the time is part of the equation.

This is a terrible argument. Sully plays 30 minutes a game. Using per 36 to project the type of player he could be if he got in fair enough shape to play 5-6 more mins. is far more relevant and appropriate than using it to project the type of player Tyler Zeller could be if he played a whopping 22 more mins. than he does now. Sully's per 36 is primarily based on actual data and has little to do with extrapolation. Zeller's per 36 has much to do with extrapolation and is thus a poor measurement for the impact he could have as a guy playing three quarters of an NBA game.

If you can't understand that, you're likely not trying to, for whatever reason.