Rondo has been looking bad in crunch time

[Eddie20]

The other players you mentioned aren't in Rondo's league though. So if Rondo is going to get a max deal and be built around, like many think, shouldn't he be held to a higher standard? Or is he exempt from criticism?

  He's frequently criticized when players he isn't guarding score. How many players are held to a higher standard than that?

What about normal standards.  Why don't you criticize him for losing Dragic with about a minute to go (backdoor play).  That was big for the Suns.

You know he won't bring that up. Just like he doesn't like to talk much about the final minute in the Cavs game. A game in which Stevens, was sort of critical of Rondo's decision, and said that the play was designed with an option to reject the screen and take it at Harris.

“Well we had a couple of different options,” Stevens noted. “We had Jeff (Green) over the top, which I’d have to look at the film to see if he had LeBron sealed for a lob. Obviously it’s a little bit riskier of a pass, but we had just thrown it to Jared (Sullinger) and then we just had a simple swing to Rondo and our desire was to reject the screen. And he had a good matchup, but Joe Harris did a nice job on him, and we didn’t get a shot off.”

[Eddie20]

Let's ignore whether his TEN defensive rebounds, 9 assists and 14 points (on 60% shooting) had anything to do with why the game was even close ...

Not sure about that. He also had 5 turnovers, shot 2-10 from the FT line, and was a minus 10 in +/- in 33 minutes. Pressey was a plus 6 in 17 minutes. The team doesn't exactly fall apart when he's not in.

Why is it so difficult to actually look into the details when plus/minus numbers look odd?

Green's +/- was also -10.  Yet by all accounts he played awesome for this game.   Doesn't that even make you stop for a second look at what the numbers actually _mean_?

Rondo was on the floor for 33 minutes and overall, yep - the team posted a -10 on the scoreboard.

Well, a glance at the other starters shows that, whuddayaknow?  Kelly Olynyk posted a big fat -15 in just 13 minutes of play!  Now, what positives and negatives did Kelly bring to the floor last night to result in such a number?  Oh yeah, he missed his two shots, committed 4 fouls, turned the ball over 3 times, played horrible defense and earned a seat on the bench - which didn't help much because Bass then came in and also played pretty bad.  Just not AS bad.

The point is, when Kelly was in the game, he was just plain and obviously having a horrible game.   Thats not to say he's a bad player.  He's had mostly good games this season.  He'll probably play great in his next game.  But last night?  He stunk.  Eye test.  Stats test.  Coach-putting-him-on-the-bench-test.  He stunk.

Well, 12 of Kelley's minutes came with Rondo on the floor.  During that time, the team was -12.

In the other 21 minutes Rondo was on the floor, the team was +2.

But go on blaming Rondo.  It's what you do.

The other players you mentioned aren't in Rondo's league though. So if Rondo is going to get a max deal and be built around, like many think, shouldn't he be held to a higher standard? Or is he exempt from criticism? My reason for citing +/- is in response to him saying Rondo being in the game was the only reason it was close. The eye test doesn't indicate that, the +/- doesn't indicate that, and to go further neither does our record the last 4 seasons.

  Not for nothing, but you weren't responding to someone saying Rondo being in the game was the only reason it was close. You were responding to someone saying that Rondo being in the game had something to do with the game being close. Which it obviously did.

Seriously? Talk about semantics.

  Shockingly, most people see quite a difference between "had something to do with" and "the only reason".

He used the words "nothing to do" in a sarcastic way as if Rondo had everything to do with it. Again, it's semantics. Sometimes you argue just for the sheer sake of argument. What are we even arguing about? You must quite be a gem to deal with on a personal level.

[pokeKingCurtis]

A sample size of, what, two games? Plus the Lakers series.

Players have ups and downs.

This is the first time Rondo is truly the undisputed number one option. There's a learning curve.

[BballTim]

The other players you mentioned aren't in Rondo's league though. So if Rondo is going to get a max deal and be built around, like many think, shouldn't he be held to a higher standard? Or is he exempt from criticism?

  He's frequently criticized when players he isn't guarding score. How many players are held to a higher standard than that?

What about normal standards.  Why don't you criticize him for losing Dragic with about a minute to go (backdoor play).  That was big for the Suns.

You know he won't bring that up. Just like he doesn't like to talk much about the final minute in the Cavs game. A game in which Stevens, was sort of critical of Rondo's decision, and said that the play was designed with an option to reject the screen and take it at Harris.

  I realize that you're still excited about the Cavs loss, but is there really that much to talk about? Everyone saw what happened, and nobody's really disputing it.I'm sure you could find plenty of your fellow Rondo haters to gloat about it with, not sure why I'd have to get involved.

[BballTim]

Sometimes you argue just for the sheer sake of argument. What are we even arguing about? You must quite be a gem to deal with on a personal level.

  You really should invest in a mirror.

[Tr1boy]

The other players you mentioned aren't in Rondo's league though. So if Rondo is going to get a max deal and be built around, like many think, shouldn't he be held to a higher standard? Or is he exempt from criticism?

  He's frequently criticized when players he isn't guarding score. How many players are held to a higher standard than that?

What about normal standards.  Why don't you criticize him for losing Dragic with about a minute to go.  That was big for phx.

from the "avery bradley is an awful starting sg" thread I started, people were saying Bradley doesn't have the benefit of having having kg cover for him anymore, that's why his defense isn't looking as good as it used to . Why doesn't Rondo get the same excuse?

AB has to cover two players sometimes bc Rondo can't guard his man. I mean why is AB covering pg's when essential that is Rondo's job. Then Rondo covers guys like Morrow and gets torched.  AB is working so hard its hard to believe he doesn't just pass out sometimes.

Rondo needs to learn how to play defense again. He is top three worse man to man pg defender in the nba right now. On par with guys Prigioni and Lin. 

[BballTim]

The other players you mentioned aren't in Rondo's league though. So if Rondo is going to get a max deal and be built around, like many think, shouldn't he be held to a higher standard? Or is he exempt from criticism?

  He's frequently criticized when players he isn't guarding score. How many players are held to a higher standard than that?

What about normal standards.  Why don't you criticize him for losing Dragic with about a minute to go (backdoor play).  That was big for the Suns.

  I thought it was more good offense than bad defense. There were two bigs down low and Dragic ran around them in a tight circle 2-3 times until he got enough space to get a shot off. I wouldn't think it's too easy to defend for Rondo. He can't really be in front of Dragic on the play, and he really won't be able to get around Dragic to get in the way of the pass. It seems like he'd need help from the big that was in the area. How do you think he should have defended it?

[Sixth Man]

Sometimes you argue just for the sheer sake of argument. What are we even arguing about? You must quite be a gem to deal with on a personal level.

  You really should invest in a mirror.

So should you...

[BballTim]

The other players you mentioned aren't in Rondo's league though. So if Rondo is going to get a max deal and be built around, like many think, shouldn't he be held to a higher standard? Or is he exempt from criticism?

  He's frequently criticized when players he isn't guarding score. How many players are held to a higher standard than that?

What about normal standards.  Why don't you criticize him for losing Dragic with about a minute to go.  That was big for phx.

from the "avery bradley is an awful starting sg" thread I started, people were saying Bradley doesn't have the benefit of having having kg cover for him anymore, that's why his defense isn't looking as good as it used to . Why doesn't Rondo get the same excuse?

AB has to cover two players sometimes bc Rondo can't guard his man. I mean why is AB covering pg's when essential that is Rondo's job. Then Rondo covers guys like Morrow and gets torched.  AB is working so hard its hard to believe he doesn't just pass out sometimes.

Rondo needs to learn how to play defense again. He is top three worse man to man pg defender in the nba right now. On par with guys Prigioni and Lin.

  I honestly don't understand how anyone could possibly watch the Celts play and come up with the conclusions that you do. I frequently disagree with people about what happens in the games. Even though I think what they're saying is wrong, I can generally come up with a reason that they say what they do, wrong as it is. I just can't make the leap in this case.

[Tr1boy]

The other players you mentioned aren't in Rondo's league though. So if Rondo is going to get a max deal and be built around, like many think, shouldn't he be held to a higher standard? Or is he exempt from criticism?

  He's frequently criticized when players he isn't guarding score. How many players are held to a higher standard than that?

What about normal standards.  Why don't you criticize him for losing Dragic with about a minute to go (backdoor play).  That was big for the Suns.

  I thought it was more good offense than bad defense. There were two bigs down low and Dragic ran around them in a tight circle 2-3 times until he got enough space to get a shot off. I wouldn't think it's too easy to defend for Rondo. He can't really be in front of Dragic on the play, and he really won't be able to get around Dragic to get in the way of the pass. It seems like he'd need help from the big that was in the area. How do you think he should have defended it?

Tim what is your relation to Rondo in real life?  You must be a family member or good friend bc its incredible to what extent you will go to defend Rondo's poor play.

[BballTim]

The other players you mentioned aren't in Rondo's league though. So if Rondo is going to get a max deal and be built around, like many think, shouldn't he be held to a higher standard? Or is he exempt from criticism?

  He's frequently criticized when players he isn't guarding score. How many players are held to a higher standard than that?

What about normal standards.  Why don't you criticize him for losing Dragic with about a minute to go (backdoor play).  That was big for the Suns.

  I thought it was more good offense than bad defense. There were two bigs down low and Dragic ran around them in a tight circle 2-3 times until he got enough space to get a shot off. I wouldn't think it's too easy to defend for Rondo. He can't really be in front of Dragic on the play, and he really won't be able to get around Dragic to get in the way of the pass. It seems like he'd need help from the big that was in the area. How do you think he should have defended it?

Tim what is your relation to Rondo in real life?  You must be a family member or good friend bc its incredible to what extent you will go to defend Rondo's poor play.

  Funny, I thought you wanted to talk about that play. What happened to that?

[pokeKingCurtis]

Sometimes you argue just for the sheer sake of argument. What are we even arguing about? You must quite be a gem to deal with on a personal level.

  You really should invest in a mirror.

So should you...

So should you

And you

And her

And they

[Eddie20]

The other players you mentioned aren't in Rondo's league though. So if Rondo is going to get a max deal and be built around, like many think, shouldn't he be held to a higher standard? Or is he exempt from criticism?

  He's frequently criticized when players he isn't guarding score. How many players are held to a higher standard than that?

What about normal standards.  Why don't you criticize him for losing Dragic with about a minute to go (backdoor play).  That was big for the Suns.

  I thought it was more good offense than bad defense. There were two bigs down low and Dragic ran around them in a tight circle 2-3 times until he got enough space to get a shot off. I wouldn't think it's too easy to defend for Rondo. He can't really be in front of Dragic on the play, and he really won't be able to get around Dragic to get in the way of the pass. It seems like he'd need help from the big that was in the area. How do you think he should have defended it?

Tim what is your relation to Rondo in real life?  You must be a family member or good friend bc its incredible to what extent you will go to defend Rondo's poor play.

That's not a bad poll question!

[pokeKingCurtis]

The other players you mentioned aren't in Rondo's league though. So if Rondo is going to get a max deal and be built around, like many think, shouldn't he be held to a higher standard? Or is he exempt from criticism?

  He's frequently criticized when players he isn't guarding score. How many players are held to a higher standard than that?

What about normal standards.  Why don't you criticize him for losing Dragic with about a minute to go (backdoor play).  That was big for the Suns.

  I thought it was more good offense than bad defense. There were two bigs down low and Dragic ran around them in a tight circle 2-3 times until he got enough space to get a shot off. I wouldn't think it's too easy to defend for Rondo. He can't really be in front of Dragic on the play, and he really won't be able to get around Dragic to get in the way of the pass. It seems like he'd need help from the big that was in the area. How do you think he should have defended it?

Tim what is your relation to Rondo in real life?  You must be a family member or good friend bc its incredible to what extent you will go to defend Rondo's poor play.

That's not a bad poll question!

True.

---

"How has Rondo affected your life?"

A. He's family
B. He's enemy
C. He's frienemy
D. He has touched my heart and soul

[BballTim]

The other players you mentioned aren't in Rondo's league though. So if Rondo is going to get a max deal and be built around, like many think, shouldn't he be held to a higher standard? Or is he exempt from criticism?

  He's frequently criticized when players he isn't guarding score. How many players are held to a higher standard than that?

What about normal standards.  Why don't you criticize him for losing Dragic with about a minute to go (backdoor play).  That was big for the Suns.

  I thought it was more good offense than bad defense. There were two bigs down low and Dragic ran around them in a tight circle 2-3 times until he got enough space to get a shot off. I wouldn't think it's too easy to defend for Rondo. He can't really be in front of Dragic on the play, and he really won't be able to get around Dragic to get in the way of the pass. It seems like he'd need help from the big that was in the area. How do you think he should have defended it?

Tim what is your relation to Rondo in real life?  You must be a family member or good friend bc its incredible to what extent you will go to defend Rondo's poor play.

That's not a bad poll question!

  You guys must be the life of the party at recess.