Author Topic: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?  (Read 30933 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2014, 11:22:03 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

  • NCE
  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11833
  • Tommy Points: 950

More to gain by not giving a flier on him in what way?

I'd rather take a flier on whoever is the best D-League center who has never been in the NBA, even if he is not particularly athletic.

And if he becomes the best D-League Center prospect, what then?

I know its two games, but he's been putting up great defensive numbers.

I want to stress looking at guys who fell through the cracks and not guys who already blew a chance at being in the NBA.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2014, 11:55:28 AM »

Offline mmmmm

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5308
  • Tommy Points: 862

More to gain by not giving a flier on him in what way?

I'd rather take a flier on whoever is the best D-League center who has never been in the NBA, even if he is not particularly athletic.

And if he becomes the best D-League Center prospect, what then?

I know its two games, but he's been putting up great defensive numbers.

Our own Dwight Powell just put up 21 points and 17 rebounds in his first D-League game.

Let's just wait a while and see where things settle before reading too much into any of these numbers.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2014, 11:57:51 AM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11134
  • Tommy Points: 1304
  • I'm a Paul Heyman guy.

More to gain by not giving a flier on him in what way?

I'd rather take a flier on whoever is the best D-League center who has never been in the NBA, even if he is not particularly athletic.

And if he becomes the best D-League Center prospect, what then?

I know its two games, but he's been putting up great defensive numbers.

I want to stress looking at guys who fell through the cracks and not guys who already blew a chance at being in the NBA.

Fair enough. But i want to leave a good example as to why this could be not such a bad idea after all.

Gerald Green.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 12:03:29 PM by Yoki_IsTheName »
2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2014, 12:05:05 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11134
  • Tommy Points: 1304
  • I'm a Paul Heyman guy.

More to gain by not giving a flier on him in what way?

I'd rather take a flier on whoever is the best D-League center who has never been in the NBA, even if he is not particularly athletic.

And if he becomes the best D-League Center prospect, what then?

I know its two games, but he's been putting up great defensive numbers.

Our own Dwight Powell just put up 21 points and 17 rebounds in his first D-League game.

Let's just wait a while and see where things settle before reading too much into any of these numbers.

Agreed. Im just saying Whiteside will be a good gamble and is something we sorely need.
2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2014, 08:56:11 PM »

Offline Beat LA

  • NCE
  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8338
  • Tommy Points: 896
  • Mr. Emoji
He dropped from a projected lottery pick to a second-rounder because of concerns about his work ethic and BBIQ, concerns which seemed to prove true.  Has playing pro ball in China and Lebanon fixed his attitude?  Some rumors say that his draft stock slid because of a severe case of ADD which he stopped taking medication for halfway through his freshman year in college.  Is this really a problem and, if so, has it been addressed?

If I were a GM, his athletic ability and D-League stats would not interest me in taking a shot on Whiteside unless I thought the mental aspects of his game have been fixed.

I understand this, but we're not going to invest a ton on him as a flier, "see what we can get" type of signing, and we can get a diamond in the rough. If those issues are not yet fixed then all will probably gamble is a veteran minimum contract.

There's still a ton of defensive upside on this kid to not get an NBA shot. Might as well be us giving it.

At this point, I am convinced that there is more to be gained by passing over athletically gifted guys who didn't succeed in the NBA because of work ethic and inability to learn how to play at the higher levels in favor of skilled players who work hard but have only average NBA athleticism. 

Jay Bilas pegged Whiteside right when he said, "He could be Patrick O'Bryant".  Unless there is evidence of an improvement in attitude and maturity, I'd rather find the next guy who went undrafted like Greg Smith or Greg Stiemsma.

Define 'average athleticism.'  Are we talking KO's athletic ability, which I think we can all agree is below average lol, or better?  I completely agree with your inclination to take skill over athleticism, but I do think that Whiteside has some skill.  He's also only played a combined 111 minutes over 21 games at the pro level, so I wouldn't exactly call that a legitimate chance to do, well, anything ;D.  I say go for it - we have absolutely nothing to lose, imo.  In a game with the Grizzlies against  the Mavericks in the preseason, he scored 9 points, had 7 rebounds (3 of which were offensive), and blocked 3 shots - in 10 minutes :o.  Yes, it was only the preseason, but at least he was going up against actual NBA talent (for the most part).  If he turns out to be Fab Melo, that would be disappointing, but I don't think that that would be the case.  Get him a great big man coach and let's see what he has to offer, because as bad as we're going to be by the end of this season, we're never going to get any of the elite big men in the draft because we always get screwed, so taking a flyer on him might be our best bet, at the moment, to try and rectify the severe shot blocking deficiency.  Cut Fav.  Who cares? ;D.  By and large (no pun intended), big guys usually take longer to develop, and I'd hate to miss out on a guy who could turn into a pretty good player for a long time.  Besides, dat wingspan, doe ;) ;D.

Edit - in spite of what I've said, it should be noted that James Michael McAdoo had 20 points, 10 rebounds, and 6 blocks the other day, so...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPVBC8sDRRs
« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 09:13:27 PM by Beat LA »

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2014, 08:17:08 PM »

Offline Beat LA

  • NCE
  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8338
  • Tommy Points: 896
  • Mr. Emoji
I have an unfortunate update concerning Hassan Whiteside, Yoki - the Grizzlies re-signed or signed (whatever term you want to use) him yesterday, so he's no longer available.  Sigh.

http://www.nba.com/grizzlies/news/lucas-resigned-141119

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2014, 04:21:50 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11134
  • Tommy Points: 1304
  • I'm a Paul Heyman guy.
I have an unfortunate update concerning Hassan Whiteside, Yoki - the Grizzlies re-signed or signed (whatever term you want to use) him yesterday, so he's no longer available.  Sigh.

http://www.nba.com/grizzlies/news/lucas-resigned-141119

He was waived once again. And he had another good showing in his Iowa return.

24 points, 16 rebounds, 4 blocks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtEyF4ym_Q4


Again, I know it's the D-League but three games in he's been elite on the Developmental. All I'm saying is a flier, take a chance on him. It's not a 100% answer to our rim protecting problem, but he could.
2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2014, 04:26:38 PM »

Offline clover

  • Front Page Moderator
  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6130
  • Tommy Points: 315
He's very talented, but I think too much of a wackadoodle for this young team and new coach.

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2014, 04:30:58 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11134
  • Tommy Points: 1304
  • I'm a Paul Heyman guy.
He's very talented, but I think too much of a wackadoodle for this young team and new coach.

Wackadoddle how though?


I've never heard him being a knucklehead, nor being a prankster or a joker.


There was questions on his work ethic, but that was about 4-5 years ago. He could have grown up and learned in that span, especially when he was playing in China and Lebanon and experiencing new cultures.
2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2014, 05:39:37 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6234
  • Tommy Points: 2238
I have an unfortunate update concerning Hassan Whiteside, Yoki - the Grizzlies re-signed or signed (whatever term you want to use) him yesterday, so he's no longer available.  Sigh.

http://www.nba.com/grizzlies/news/lucas-resigned-141119

He was waived once again. And he had another good showing in his Iowa return.

24 points, 16 rebounds, 4 blocks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtEyF4ym_Q4


Again, I know it's the D-League but three games in he's been elite on the Developmental. All I'm saying is a flier, take a chance on him. It's not a 100% answer to our rim protecting problem, but he could.

Some positives in the clip:

1. Gets the ball up high and the shot goes right up>>>no Perk-like hands dropping gather.
2. Looks like he has soft hands.
3. Seems to be moving well without the ball.
4. Seems to have a nose for the ball.
5. Looks a lot stronger than he used to be.

The negative that could cancel all the positives: his level of opposition.

I'd still take a flyer on him and dump Pressey. I admire Pressey's grit and determination, but it's time to move on from him. We need a big a LOT more.

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2014, 05:48:46 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

  • NCE
  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11833
  • Tommy Points: 950
Well, here's what Chad Ford once said about Whiteside:

Quote
A number of teams reported to me that their interviews with Whiteside were rocky. I can understand why. In the 15 minutes or so I spent with him one-on-one he projected a confidence that bordered on naïve arrogance. He compared himself to everyone from Dwight Howard to Hakeem Olajuwon (with whom he spent a week training), complained about where I had him on my mock draft (No. 14 to the Rockets) and was insulted that our scouting report didn't have more on his 3-point shooting ability.

Whiteside clearly believes he has the stuff to be great ... but my interview with him was eerily similar to the one I had with Tyrus Thomas a few years ago. Thomas tried to convince me he was a perimeter player, complained he wasn't ranked No. 1 and generally seemed clueless about the rest of the players in the draft.

Whiteside did shoot 60% on threes in college, but he only had five attempts.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2014, 05:51:53 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6234
  • Tommy Points: 2238

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2014, 06:26:41 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11134
  • Tommy Points: 1304
  • I'm a Paul Heyman guy.
2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2014, 06:49:55 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21238
  • Tommy Points: 2016
Trade for biyombo and see what happens

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2014, 07:15:22 PM »

Offline GratefulCs

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3181
  • Tommy Points: 496
  • Salmon and Mashed Potatoes
Trade for biyombo and see what happens

That could be a pretty sweet move. What do you think it would take?
I trust Danny Ainge