Author Topic: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?  (Read 30937 times)

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Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« on: November 16, 2014, 11:03:16 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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Remember Hassan Whiteside? That dude Sacramento drafted when he was a kid and sort of didnt pan out. Well he's tearing it up in the developmental.

So, i checked some D-League stats and in 2 games, and he's been balling, more specifically defensively.

In two games he's averaging 15.5 rebounds and 6 blocks per game in the D-League. I know it's a very small sample size and it's the D-League, but those are pretty impressive numbers.

We're looking for a rim protector right? Can't we take a flier on this 25 year old kid? I mean, it could be a low risk - high reward move. Still young, has size, kind of awkward offensively but could be good defensively.

Again, I understand it's the D-League he's playing at. But remember when we did this with Greg Steimsma? It worked for a while didnt it? I dont see why it cant happen again.

Here he is blocking 8 shots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to0WzfEk-GQ
(how come I can't embed the video?)

Here he is dropping 30 on Reno.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n_eqxDdSdw

And he's not skinny anymore.

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PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
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Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2014, 11:11:53 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Remember Hassan Whiteside? That dude Sacramento drafted when he was a kid and sort of didnt pan out. Well he's tearing it up in the developmental.

So, i checked some D-League stats and in 2 games, and he's been balling, more specifically defensively.

In two games he's averaging 15.5 rebounds and 6 blocks per game in the D-League. I know it's a very small sample size and it's the D-League, but those are pretty impressive numbers.

We're looking for a rim protector right? Can't we take a flier on this 25 year old kid? I mean, it could be a low risk - high reward move. Still young, has size, kind of awkward offensively but could be good defensively.

Again, I understand it's the D-League he's playing at. But remember when we did this with Greg Steimsma? It worked for a while didnt it? I dont see why it cant happen again.

Here he is blocking 8 shots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to0WzfEk-GQ
(how come I can't embed the video?)

Here he is dropping 30 on Reno.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n_eqxDdSdw

And he's not skinny anymore.

Yeah, why not give him a shot?  I remember him when he came out of college, and was surprised that he didn't stick in the league because of his defensive potential, but then again, he looked like a stick lol; and no, he's definitely not skinny anymore ;D.  Perhaps he went on a weight program, because the guy looks like a leaner Bynum right now.  I'm not impressed with his 30 points because those were all dunks and put-backs, but I love his size and athleticism, and he does have SOME skill, lol, so I say go get him Danny ;D.

Edit - having just viewed the clip of his 8 blocks, what I really like is how he keeps most of them in play, as opposed to spiking them into the seats like Javale McGee ;D.

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2014, 11:15:54 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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Remember Hassan Whiteside? That dude Sacramento drafted when he was a kid and sort of didnt pan out. Well he's tearing it up in the developmental.

So, i checked some D-League stats and in 2 games, and he's been balling, more specifically defensively.

In two games he's averaging 15.5 rebounds and 6 blocks per game in the D-League. I know it's a very small sample size and it's the D-League, but those are pretty impressive numbers.

We're looking for a rim protector right? Can't we take a flier on this 25 year old kid? I mean, it could be a low risk - high reward move. Still young, has size, kind of awkward offensively but could be good defensively.

Again, I understand it's the D-League he's playing at. But remember when we did this with Greg Steimsma? It worked for a while didnt it? I dont see why it cant happen again.

Here he is blocking 8 shots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to0WzfEk-GQ
(how come I can't embed the video?)

Here he is dropping 30 on Reno.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n_eqxDdSdw

And he's not skinny anymore.

Yeah, why not give him a shot?  I remember him when he came out of college, and was surprised that he didn't stick in the league because of his defensive potential, but then again, he looked like a stick lol; and no, he's definitely not skinny anymore ;D.  Perhaps he went on a weight program, because the guy looks like a leaner Bynum right now.  I'm not impressed with his 30 points because those were all dunks and put-backs, but I love his size and athleticism, and he does have SOME skill, lol, so I say go get him Danny ;D.

Let's not forget the 7'7" wingspan (Jay Bilas is drooling here). Yeah, he looks like he cant be relied upon offensively on his own in the NBA, but boy will he bother some shots and make it hard for the opponents to rebound against.

At worst, we're signing him to a what, a minimum deal? At best, we solve our rim protecting problem.
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PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
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C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2014, 11:43:31 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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He dropped from a projected lottery pick to a second-rounder because of concerns about his work ethic and BBIQ, concerns which seemed to prove true.  Has playing pro ball in China and Lebanon fixed his attitude?  Some rumors say that his draft stock slid because of a severe case of ADD which he stopped taking medication for halfway through his freshman year in college.  Is this really a problem and, if so, has it been addressed?

If I were a GM, his athletic ability and D-League stats would not interest me in taking a shot on Whiteside unless I thought the mental aspects of his game have been fixed.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2014, 12:11:24 AM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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(how come I can't embed the video?)

Not using the [url] function seems to help.

Simply putting in the links (like www(dot)youtube(dot)com/...etc.) without the [url] function seems to do the trick.

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2014, 12:19:29 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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He dropped from a projected lottery pick to a second-rounder because of concerns about his work ethic and BBIQ, concerns which seemed to prove true.  Has playing pro ball in China and Lebanon fixed his attitude?  Some rumors say that his draft stock slid because of a severe case of ADD which he stopped taking medication for halfway through his freshman year in college.  Is this really a problem and, if so, has it been addressed?

If I were a GM, his athletic ability and D-League stats would not interest me in taking a shot on Whiteside unless I thought the mental aspects of his game have been fixed.

Plus, Danny picked Fab Melo in the 20s, and he's hardly an example of a high bbiq player.  Where did the term basketball iq come from, btw?  We can't just call a guy a smart player anymore?

While I understand your concern, ADD is not schizophrenia or whatever Royce White has (in addition to obvious other issues not related to mental health), and I'm sure that the 'problem' that led to Whiteside nearly dropping out of the draft completely has been managed and stabilized, but I can't say for certain, obviously, with no intimate knowledge of the situation.  I will say this, though - if he really didn't care nor couldn't focus, he wouldn't have put the time and effort into almost completely reshaping his physique.  I don't understand how guys like Eric Bledsoe (who I love) can be guilty of having his grades significantly altered and yet still wind up in the late lottery section of the first round, but a guy with seemingly tremendous defensive upside can have ADD and drops to the back of the draft.  I know that they're not on the same level as players, but it's sad that GMs appear to be reinforcing the stigma that unfortunately seems to follow people with mental health issues, but that's an entirely different discussion.

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2014, 12:46:21 AM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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He dropped from a projected lottery pick to a second-rounder because of concerns about his work ethic and BBIQ, concerns which seemed to prove true.  Has playing pro ball in China and Lebanon fixed his attitude?  Some rumors say that his draft stock slid because of a severe case of ADD which he stopped taking medication for halfway through his freshman year in college.  Is this really a problem and, if so, has it been addressed?

If I were a GM, his athletic ability and D-League stats would not interest me in taking a shot on Whiteside unless I thought the mental aspects of his game have been fixed.

I understand this, but we're not going to invest a ton on him as a flier, "see what we can get" type of signing, and we can get a diamond in the rough. If those issues are not yet fixed then all will probably gamble is a veteran minimum contract.

There's still a ton of defensive upside on this kid to not get an NBA shot. Might as well be us giving it.
2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2014, 03:41:20 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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He dropped from a projected lottery pick to a second-rounder because of concerns about his work ethic and BBIQ, concerns which seemed to prove true.  Has playing pro ball in China and Lebanon fixed his attitude?  Some rumors say that his draft stock slid because of a severe case of ADD which he stopped taking medication for halfway through his freshman year in college.  Is this really a problem and, if so, has it been addressed?

If I were a GM, his athletic ability and D-League stats would not interest me in taking a shot on Whiteside unless I thought the mental aspects of his game have been fixed.

Plus, Danny picked Fab Melo in the 20s, and he's hardly an example of a high bbiq player.  Where did the term basketball iq come from, btw?  We can't just call a guy a smart player anymore?

While I understand your concern, ADD is not schizophrenia or whatever Royce White has (in addition to obvious other issues not related to mental health), and I'm sure that the 'problem' that led to Whiteside nearly dropping out of the draft completely has been managed and stabilized, but I can't say for certain, obviously, with no intimate knowledge of the situation.  I will say this, though - if he really didn't care nor couldn't focus, he wouldn't have put the time and effort into almost completely reshaping his physique.  I don't understand how guys like Eric Bledsoe (who I love) can be guilty of having his grades significantly altered and yet still wind up in the late lottery section of the first round, but a guy with seemingly tremendous defensive upside can have ADD and drops to the back of the draft.  I know that they're not on the same level as players, but it's sad that GMs appear to be reinforcing the stigma that unfortunately seems to follow people with mental health issues, but that's an entirely different discussion.

I'm not so much concerned about ADD as much as I am concerned about his attitude towards his treatment.  It was said that he went off his meds.  If that was a decision made in consultation with medical personnel, that's fine.  If it was a unilateral decision that he made on his own, then I want to know his decision-making process.

I think there are legitimate concerns that Whiteside is not a good fit for a team interested in running a complex defensive scheme where the weak link on the floor screws it up for everyone else.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2014, 03:54:32 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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He dropped from a projected lottery pick to a second-rounder because of concerns about his work ethic and BBIQ, concerns which seemed to prove true.  Has playing pro ball in China and Lebanon fixed his attitude?  Some rumors say that his draft stock slid because of a severe case of ADD which he stopped taking medication for halfway through his freshman year in college.  Is this really a problem and, if so, has it been addressed?

If I were a GM, his athletic ability and D-League stats would not interest me in taking a shot on Whiteside unless I thought the mental aspects of his game have been fixed.

I understand this, but we're not going to invest a ton on him as a flier, "see what we can get" type of signing, and we can get a diamond in the rough. If those issues are not yet fixed then all will probably gamble is a veteran minimum contract.

There's still a ton of defensive upside on this kid to not get an NBA shot. Might as well be us giving it.

At this point, I am convinced that there is more to be gained by passing over athletically gifted guys who didn't succeed in the NBA because of work ethic and inability to learn how to play at the higher levels in favor of skilled players who work hard but have only average NBA athleticism. 

Jay Bilas pegged Whiteside right when he said, "He could be Patrick O'Bryant".  Unless there is evidence of an improvement in attitude and maturity, I'd rather find the next guy who went undrafted like Greg Smith or Greg Stiemsma.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2014, 06:08:54 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I'd like to give Dakari Johnson a shot in next year's draft.

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2014, 07:38:39 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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If a roster spot and a chance at minutes become available via a multi player trade then why not. Bigs usually take a while to develop maybe this kid has developed into a bench NBA player.
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Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2014, 08:51:55 AM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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He dropped from a projected lottery pick to a second-rounder because of concerns about his work ethic and BBIQ, concerns which seemed to prove true.  Has playing pro ball in China and Lebanon fixed his attitude?  Some rumors say that his draft stock slid because of a severe case of ADD which he stopped taking medication for halfway through his freshman year in college.  Is this really a problem and, if so, has it been addressed?

If I were a GM, his athletic ability and D-League stats would not interest me in taking a shot on Whiteside unless I thought the mental aspects of his game have been fixed.

I understand this, but we're not going to invest a ton on him as a flier, "see what we can get" type of signing, and we can get a diamond in the rough. If those issues are not yet fixed then all will probably gamble is a veteran minimum contract.

There's still a ton of defensive upside on this kid to not get an NBA shot. Might as well be us giving it.

At this point, I am convinced that there is more to be gained by passing over athletically gifted guys who didn't succeed in the NBA because of work ethic and inability to learn how to play at the higher levels in favor of skilled players who work hard but have only average NBA athleticism. 

Jay Bilas pegged Whiteside right when he said, "He could be Patrick O'Bryant".  Unless there is evidence of an improvement in attitude and maturity, I'd rather find the next guy who went undrafted like Greg Smith or Greg Stiemsma.

More to gain by not giving a flier on him in what way?

Just look at this scenario for a while. Lets say we offer him a 2 year minimum deal with the next being unguaranteed. Let's call it a "trial" offer. At worst we trade someone we dont really use to open up a roster room for him.

If he is a failed experiment because of his work ethic , all we'll do is give him a 1 year minimum. We'd still be losing games and still get a high draft pick. We'd open a roster spot by cutting him before his 2nd year is guaranteed. We lose nothing except what, $700k, which in the NBA is NOTHING.

If the experiment works. We get a young big, a rim protector and a guy who can clean the boards that could either help us moving forward or be another trade chip to land as a better player.

This is why it's called a gamble. But this is a gamble in which we're not investing a lot, and could gain a lot. If his work ethic sucks, then we stop. But what if he changed? What if he turned out to be Greg Steimsma, or better?

We only need a minimum offer (or a roster spot). That's all we're gambling on him.
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Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2014, 10:25:47 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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More to gain by not giving a flier on him in what way?

I'd rather take a flier on whoever is the best D-League center who has never been in the NBA, even if he is not particularly athletic.
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Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2014, 10:48:29 AM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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More to gain by not giving a flier on him in what way?

I'd rather take a flier on whoever is the best D-League center who has never been in the NBA, even if he is not particularly athletic.

And if he becomes the best D-League Center prospect, what then?

I know its two games, but he's been putting up great defensive numbers.
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PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
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SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: Can this kid be a plug in our defensive hole?
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2014, 11:18:26 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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More to gain by not giving a flier on him in what way?

I'd rather take a flier on whoever is the best D-League center who has never been in the NBA, even if he is not particularly athletic.

interesting thread. i am sure ainge is aware of this guy. the question for ainge is more complicated than "should I add this guy." someone else has to be cut from the celtics, yes?

so the secondary question is obviously....who goes? the top two candidates, barring trades, would be pressey or fav.
And if he becomes the best D-League Center prospect, what then?

I know its two games, but he's been putting up great defensive numbers.
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