Author Topic: T-Mac tells LeBron to "get Rondo;" radical three-team ideas  (Read 17297 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: T-Mac tells LeBron to "get Rondo;" radical three-team ideas
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2014, 03:07:07 PM »

Offline TheFlex

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2791
  • Tommy Points: 367
I don't like Kyrie a) next to Smart and b) in Stevens' system. I'd rather continue asset collection, hope one of the picks turns into Okafor or Towns and either keep Greek Freak or get value for MCW depending on which completely improbable trade happened in this fantasy world.
Right, because how well he'll play next to Marcus Smart is the most important consideration when acquiring a 22-year-old all-star player  ::)

Even if you're purely interested in asset collection, adding Irving is about your best move, if at all possible.

The idea of value is purely subjective and it's ridiculous to suggest that there's one factual way to building a basketball team. If that was the case then Milwaukee wouldn't be this bad for this long and San Antonio wouldn't be this good for this long.

It's funny how in other proposed Rondo deals where we recieve Ty Lawson or Bledsoe it's perfectly legitimate for posters to say they want Smart to be our PG and don't want to trade Rondo for a PG and yet such a thought is illegitimate here. I understand the idea of acquiring stars at all costs regardless of position, but it's not like the scenario I proposed restricted us to acquiring Irving or not getting anything for Rondo at all. We'd get equal value for Rondo and the LAC 1st (or Irving depending on how you want to look at it) in either a player with superstar potential (Greek Freak) and a top 7 pick or a player with star potential (MCW) and a top 3 pick. Hardly a scenario in which the absolute best option is to take Irving and run.

the original deal is a no-go.  horrible return for Rondo.

as far as Kyrie goes, I'm not as keen on him as some here are.  looking at his abysmal assist performance so far this season calls into question his ability to sublimate his game for his teammates.  I'm seeing a me-first player developing right before our eyes while he teams up with the league's prima donna

Seriously? That's a great offer for Rondo. Greek Freak has superstar potential and we get a lotto pick (likely top 7 at least).

We're not getting a Love-esque offer for Rondo. I'd love to pick up a prospect with the potential of Giannis and a high lotto pick. You might not like the deal,  but labeling it "horrible" is just stubborn and reveals serious bias against considering Rondo deals.

Edit: Picking up Knight isn't too shabby either. I would argue that he's at least as good as Bradley right now.


Draft: 8 first rounders in next 5 years.

Cap space: $24 mil.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dkcleague/

Re: T-Mac tells LeBron to "get Rondo;" radical three-team ideas
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2014, 03:23:05 PM »

Offline acieEarl

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1087
  • Tommy Points: 47
While I don't see Cleveland making this trade, they really should. Rondo would be perfect on that team and just what Lebron and Love need. From the Cs standpoint it would be getting back a high value asset. Personally I rather just resign Rondo, but if he's out the door next year this would be a great asset for losing Rondo.

Re: T-Mac tells LeBron to "get Rondo;" radical three-team ideas
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2014, 03:27:15 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • NCE
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17914
  • Tommy Points: 1294
It's funny how in other proposed Rondo deals where we recieve Ty Lawson or Bledsoe it's perfectly legitimate for posters to say they want Smart to be our PG and don't want to trade Rondo for a PG and yet such a thought is illegitimate here.
It just so happens that Kyrie Irving is supremely more talented than either Lawson or Bledsoe. Which makes the notion completely legitimate.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: T-Mac tells LeBron to "get Rondo;" radical three-team ideas
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2014, 03:30:10 PM »

Offline TheFlex

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2791
  • Tommy Points: 367
It's funny how in other proposed Rondo deals where we recieve Ty Lawson or Bledsoe it's perfectly legitimate for posters to say they want Smart to be our PG and don't want to trade Rondo for a PG and yet such a thought is illegitimate here.
It just so happens that Kyrie Irving is supremely more talented than either Lawson or Bledsoe. Which makes the notion completely legitimate.

You forgot the rest of my quote:

Quote
I understand the idea of acquiring stars at all costs regardless of position, but it's not like the scenario I proposed restricted us to acquiring Irving or not getting anything for Rondo at all. We'd get equal value for Rondo and the LAC 1st (or Irving depending on how you want to look at it) in either a player with superstar potential (Greek Freak) and a top 7 pick or a player with star potential (MCW) and a top 3 pick. Hardly a scenario in which the absolute best option is to take Irving and run.


Draft: 8 first rounders in next 5 years.

Cap space: $24 mil.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dkcleague/

Re: T-Mac tells LeBron to "get Rondo;" radical three-team ideas
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2014, 03:33:01 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • NCE
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17914
  • Tommy Points: 1294
No, we won't. Irving is established NBA talent that is still young. Picks and prospects are... picks and prospects. On average, you may or may not end up with someone as good as Irving -- with "may not" being the more probably outcome. That's what you don't seem to understand.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: T-Mac tells LeBron to "get Rondo;" radical three-team ideas
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2014, 03:34:18 PM »

Offline Nerf DPOY

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2509
  • Tommy Points: 377
The question I ask is if Irving is available, what besides Rondo would we be willing to give up? I'd personally offer our best '15 or '16 pick, their choice.

Re: T-Mac tells LeBron to "get Rondo;" radical three-team ideas
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2014, 03:35:53 PM »

Offline TheFlex

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2791
  • Tommy Points: 367
No, we won't. Irving is established NBA talent that is still young. Picks and prospects are... picks and prospects. On average, you may or may not end up with someone as good as Irving -- with "may not" being the more probably outcome. That's what you don't seem to understand.

Those picks and prospects can be used to acquire a star that Stevens feels fits his system more adequately.


Draft: 8 first rounders in next 5 years.

Cap space: $24 mil.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dkcleague/

Re: T-Mac tells LeBron to "get Rondo;" radical three-team ideas
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2014, 03:40:57 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • NCE
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17914
  • Tommy Points: 1294
No, we won't. Irving is established NBA talent that is still young. Picks and prospects are... picks and prospects. On average, you may or may not end up with someone as good as Irving -- with "may not" being the more probably outcome. That's what you don't seem to understand.

Those picks and prospects can be used to acquire a star that Stevens feels fits his system more adequately.
Right, let's just spin our wheels and refuse to pick top talent that's available because, God forbid, Brad Stevens may have to change his system.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: T-Mac tells LeBron to "get Rondo;" radical three-team ideas
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2014, 03:41:09 PM »

Offline TheFlex

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2791
  • Tommy Points: 367
To clarify, I'm not arguing that Irving isn't a fair return for Rondo, more contending the idea that such a return definitively crushes a Giannis/Knight/lotto pick return.


Draft: 8 first rounders in next 5 years.

Cap space: $24 mil.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dkcleague/

Re: T-Mac tells LeBron to "get Rondo;" radical three-team ideas
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2014, 03:42:48 PM »

Offline slamtheking

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31869
  • Tommy Points: 10047
the original deal is a no-go.  horrible return for Rondo.

as far as Kyrie goes, I'm not as keen on him as some here are.  looking at his abysmal assist performance so far this season calls into question his ability to sublimate his game for his teammates.  I'm seeing a me-first player developing right before our eyes while he teams up with the league's prima donna

Seriously? That's a great offer for Rondo. Greek Freak has superstar potential and we get a lotto pick (likely top 7 at least).

We're not getting a Love-esque offer for Rondo. I'd love to pick up a prospect with the potential of Giannis and a high lotto pick. You might not like the deal,  but labeling it "horrible" is just stubborn and reveals serious bias against considering Rondo deals.

Edit: Picking up Knight isn't too shabby either. I would argue that he's at least as good as Bradley right now.
Seriously, it's not that great a deal.
Rondo - One of the best PGs in the game.

Ilyasova/Knight/Hayward - journeymen at best.  I'm no AB fan but I'd take him over Knight without hesitation. 
Giannis - all hype right now.  athletic sure.  so were JR Giddens, Gerald Green and JJJ.  how'd they pan out?  The kid's not a natural scorer which we could really use.  He's as you stated - an athletic freak.  sorry, I need to see some actual basketball skills to begin to get excited about a prospect.

As for guessing about that pick being a top 7, here's my take on it.  Milwaukee's roster drastically underperformed last year.  badly.  no way they were the worst team in the league on paper.  Now this team has added prime Rondo in place of Knight (drastic upgrade), dumped 2 underwhelming role players and a prospect that didn't do anything much last year except look athletic AND they added Parker who can fill it up.  Those 2 additions along with getting Sanders back is going to have that team/roster chasing a playoff spot if not in the playoffs.
Rondo feeding Sanders, Parker, Henson, Mayo, Zaza, Bayless, Dudley and Middleton?  that's a team that's going to score.  look at what Rondo has done with the C's roster and that's without someone who can fill it up like Parker and Mayo when they're on or get good looks.

Re: T-Mac tells LeBron to "get Rondo;" radical three-team ideas
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2014, 03:44:03 PM »

Offline TheFlex

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2791
  • Tommy Points: 367
No, we won't. Irving is established NBA talent that is still young. Picks and prospects are... picks and prospects. On average, you may or may not end up with someone as good as Irving -- with "may not" being the more probably outcome. That's what you don't seem to understand.

Those picks and prospects can be used to acquire a star that Stevens feels fits his system more adequately.
Right, let's just spin our wheels and refuse to pick top talent that's available because, God forbid, Brad Stevens may have to change his system.

We're not "spinning our wheels." In all likelihood Rondo leaves us this offseason. Netting Giannis and a pick that gets us closer to Okafor/Towns immediately improves our team next year and affords us the flexibility of either assembling a homegrown power or trading the pieces if a star more suitable for this team than Irving comes on the market.


Draft: 8 first rounders in next 5 years.

Cap space: $24 mil.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dkcleague/

Re: T-Mac tells LeBron to "get Rondo;" radical three-team ideas
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2014, 03:50:59 PM »

Offline TheFlex

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2791
  • Tommy Points: 367
the original deal is a no-go.  horrible return for Rondo.

as far as Kyrie goes, I'm not as keen on him as some here are.  looking at his abysmal assist performance so far this season calls into question his ability to sublimate his game for his teammates.  I'm seeing a me-first player developing right before our eyes while he teams up with the league's prima donna

Seriously? That's a great offer for Rondo. Greek Freak has superstar potential and we get a lotto pick (likely top 7 at least).

We're not getting a Love-esque offer for Rondo. I'd love to pick up a prospect with the potential of Giannis and a high lotto pick. You might not like the deal,  but labeling it "horrible" is just stubborn and reveals serious bias against considering Rondo deals.

Edit: Picking up Knight isn't too shabby either. I would argue that he's at least as good as Bradley right now.
Seriously, it's not that great a deal.
Rondo - One of the best PGs in the game.

Ilyasova/Knight/Hayward - journeymen at best.  I'm no AB fan but I'd take him over Knight without hesitation. 
Giannis - all hype right now.  athletic sure.  so were JR Giddens, Gerald Green and JJJ.  how'd they pan out?  The kid's not a natural scorer which we could really use.  He's as you stated - an athletic freak.  sorry, I need to see some actual basketball skills to begin to get excited about a prospect.

As for guessing about that pick being a top 7, here's my take on it.  Milwaukee's roster drastically underperformed last year.  badly.  no way they were the worst team in the league on paper.  Now this team has added prime Rondo in place of Knight (drastic upgrade), dumped 2 underwhelming role players and a prospect that didn't do anything much last year except look athletic AND they added Parker who can fill it up.  Those 2 additions along with getting Sanders back is going to have that team/roster chasing a playoff spot if not in the playoffs.
Rondo feeding Sanders, Parker, Henson, Mayo, Zaza, Bayless, Dudley and Middleton?  that's a team that's going to score.  look at what Rondo has done with the C's roster and that's without someone who can fill it up like Parker and Mayo when they're on or get good looks.

Hyperbolic statement of the year: Giannis=JR Giddens.

What you just said is equivalent to "Sure, Nerlens Noel can block shots at the collegiate level, but so could Fab Melo."

Giannis is a superior passer to all of the players you just mentioned. He also has elite court vision for his age and is about 6'11", I think. He has serious potential in transition, where he could be devastating as a player that can rebound the ball, bring it up the floor and utilize either his passing ability to find the easy basket or his speed and body control to finish at the rim (ironically, very similar to Rondo, only 6'11").

Also, Cleveland gets Rondo in that deal, not Milwaukee. They'd get Irving.


Draft: 8 first rounders in next 5 years.

Cap space: $24 mil.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dkcleague/

Re: T-Mac tells LeBron to "get Rondo;" radical three-team ideas
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2014, 03:56:49 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • NCE
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17914
  • Tommy Points: 1294
No, we won't. Irving is established NBA talent that is still young. Picks and prospects are... picks and prospects. On average, you may or may not end up with someone as good as Irving -- with "may not" being the more probably outcome. That's what you don't seem to understand.

Those picks and prospects can be used to acquire a star that Stevens feels fits his system more adequately.
Right, let's just spin our wheels and refuse to pick top talent that's available because, God forbid, Brad Stevens may have to change his system.

We're not "spinning our wheels." In all likelihood Rondo leaves us this offseason. Netting Giannis and a pick that gets us closer to Okafor/Towns immediately improves our team next year and affords us the flexibility of either assembling a homegrown power or trading the pieces if a star more suitable for this team than Irving comes on the market.
We all understand Rondo may be leaving in the offseason. The discussion here is about where to pick up a top tier player in Irving, or to instead deal him for a bag of spare parts, picks and future maybes with the intention to resell them for a hypothetically available hypothetically better fitting player who may hypothetically be as talented as Irving.

Of course, this is all presuming that Irving may be available. As far as I am concerned, in the current NBA where talent is at a premium, it's completely insane to pass on a known commodity of Irving's caliber. And especially not for the reasons you're pointing out.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: T-Mac tells LeBron to "get Rondo;" radical three-team ideas
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2014, 04:15:53 PM »

Offline hpantazo

  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24883
  • Tommy Points: 2700
I'd only do it if we get Kyrie, and I'd give up the Clippers pick to get it done

Re: T-Mac tells LeBron to "get Rondo;" radical three-team ideas
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2014, 04:35:44 PM »

Offline gpap

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8224
  • Tommy Points: 417
I'd only do it if we get Kyrie, and I'd give up the Clippers pick to get it done
                    
                                                                                                                                                             
I second this. Not sure why anyone would want to send Rondo to Cleveland
not receive Kyrie in return.