Author Topic: Would you like to see this happen - McGee, Wallce traded and maybe Josh Smith  (Read 5534 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline cooper_pc

  • Jaden Springer
  • Posts: 7
  • Tommy Points: 1
Trade 1:
Bass, Bynum Cs 1st 2014 (no protection) for McGee (Denver)

Here we clear the logjam at the 4 and it helps get our roster down, McGee is still injured but is a legit 5 and finally gives the Cs a true centre. We are obviously gambling on our first with the assumption we are making the playoffs.

Trade 2:
Wallace, Philly 2nd rounders & Cavs 1st 2016 for Jason Richardson (76ers)

We need the salary off the books, Richardson is out for the year and frees up salary next year. The Cavs pick won't be much lower than 24 and Philly will be happy to get their 2nd rounders back

Optional 3rd trade:
Green for Josh Smith

This is a trade looking to the future, it helps convince Rondo to stay and frees up minutes for Monroe. Turner becomes the starting 3 and probably allows some more game time for young this year. Smith starts in place of Sully and you suddenly have a dominate big rotation with Sully and Olynk off the pine.


PG: Rondo
SG: Bradley
SF: Turner
PF: Smith
C: McGee
6th Sully
Bench: Olynk
Bench: Smart
Bench: Thornton
Bench: Zeller
Bench: Pressey
Bench: Young
Bench: Fav
Bench: Powell
Richardson - (season injury)

They money situation isn't too bad. McGee is on the books for one more year and with Smoove in town Rondo is happy to resign. We still have Clips, Nets and some of our firsts to be used and a deeper bench with some great value rookies.

« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 07:51:56 PM by cooper_pc »

Offline Csfan1984

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8826
  • Tommy Points: 289
First rounders for role players no thanks

Offline gpap

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8224
  • Tommy Points: 417
I would hold off.

Something tells me we'll be able to do better with our trade assets.

McGee has gotten injured a lot the last couple seasons and JRich is toast.

I would rather focus on the following guys, whether it be free agency or trade(s)

-Deandre Jordan
-Marc Gasol
-Rudy Gay
-Al Horford (if he can stay healthy)

Based on feedback I got in the Klay Thompson thread, I would also throw David Lee on that list.

Maybe the Warriors look to move him if they extend Thompson, and personally I've always liked David Lee.



Offline Rick Robeys Return

  • Jrue Holiday
  • Posts: 326
  • Tommy Points: 35
  • The bringer of DJ
With respect, but all three of these are godawful from the Cs perspective. Wait, SVG...is that you?

We are not yet so desperate to dump draft picks or to dump Wallace...And god, why oh why would we want the inefficient Josh Smith on the books for $14 MILLION PER YEAR FOR THE NEXT THREE YEARS! Ugh....

IMHO, other than clearing up the 15th spot, which may just require waiving Bynum, and entertaining offers for Thornton at the trade deadline ( a situation in which we hold the leverage in discussions with playoffs teams who need his shooting....) I think Danny can sit tight until the end of the season. Let's go to battle with the 15 we have, have a stable roster and stable rotations, let Wallace sit on the bench  for the most part, as he is willing to do...And keep building/ developing for the future...at the end of the season Bass, Thornton, Rondo and maybe Green and Fav come off the books and we can make some moves (including re-signing Rondo!)

Offline slamtheking

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31869
  • Tommy Points: 10047
With respect, but all three of these are godawful from the Cs perspective. Wait, SVG...is that you?

We are not yet so desperate to dump draft picks or to dump Wallace...And god, why oh why would we want the inefficient Josh Smith on the books for $14 MILLION PER YEAR FOR THE NEXT THREE YEARS! Ugh....

THIS

3 awful deals.  At one point Green for Smith would have been a good deal but not with the way Smith played last year and for that contract of his. 

Offline Sketch5

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3224
  • Tommy Points: 280
Nope, I actually think this makes us worse.

McGee is one of the lowest BBIQ I've seen. Which really goes away from what DA and Stevens have been trying to build of smart players. Smith is better, but I wouldn't say High BBIQ with him. Plus that kills KO and Sully's minutes, who both are better than McGee and could be better than Smith in Stevens system.

Plus thats a bad shooting team. Bradley isn't good enough to draw players out. neither is Turner. At least if KO and Sully keep on the upwards trend that makes it easier for Rondo and Bradley to work. Or even Smart and Turner.

After this year Wallace's contract might look good to a select few looking to move big pieces. Heck if Smith doesn't work in  Detroit, they could shed two years off with trading for Wallace to get out of Smith contract. Or a team like OKC that may need some vet SF help at the deadline and move Perk and that free's up a year for us.


Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18716
  • Tommy Points: 1818
I'm not giving a 1st rounder straight up for McGee, let alone trade Bass + a pick for him.

Offline Irish Stew

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1080
  • Tommy Points: 56
Trade 1:
Bass, Bynum Cs 1st 2014 (no protection) for McGee (Denver)

Here we clear the logjam at the 4 and it helps get our roster down, McGee is still injured but is a legit 5 and finally gives the Cs a true centre. We are obviously gambling on our first with the assumption we are making the playoffs.

Trade 2:
Wallace, Philly 2nd rounders & Cavs 1st 2016 for Jason Richardson (76ers)

We need the salary off the books, Richardson is out for the year and frees up salary next year. The Cavs pick won't be much lower than 24 and Philly will be happy to get their 2nd rounders back

Optional 3rd trade:
Green for Josh Smith

This is a trade looking to the future, it helps convince Rondo to stay and frees up minutes for Monroe. Turner becomes the starting 3 and probably allows some more game time for young this year. Smith starts in place of Sully and you suddenly have a dominate big rotation with Sully and Olynk off the pine.


PG: Rondo
SG: Bradley
SF: Turner
PF: Smith
C: McGee
6th Sully
Bench: Olynk
Bench: Smart
Bench: Thornton
Bench: Zeller
Bench: Pressey
Bench: Young
Bench: Fav
Bench: Powell
Richardson - (season injury)

They money situation isn't too bad. McGee is on the books for one more year and with Smoove in town Rondo is happy to resign. We still have Clips, Nets and some of our firsts to be used and a deeper bench with some great value rookies.
Trade 1: I assume you mean our 2015 unprotected pick so I say only trade this pick as part of a trade for an exceptional Big like Marc Gasol, a healthy Horford, or maybe Hibbert. Trade 2: I don't see us as a destination site for big time free agents right now so I don't know if we need to move the Wallace contract using picks. Trade 3: People either seem to love or hate Smith on this site. He is an exceptional defensive player and would give us the kind of above the rim player that we lack. Also, when you bring Smith in, you will probably get Rondo to extend, so you may really be getting two players in this deal. For Smith to be effective he has to play the 4 not the 3 which would cut drastically into Sullinger's time. In the end, we would probably use Sullinger as part of a deal for a center to pair with Smith, hopefully not McGee. I think that we would have to sweeten the Green-Smith proposal with at least one first round pick. Trade 3 is the only one that would interest me. Another poster mentioned David Lee who is 31 and plays zero defense. I'd pass on any Lee deal.

Offline Monkhouse

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6932
  • Tommy Points: 814
  • A true Celtic plays with heart.
I would hold off.

Something tells me we'll be able to do better with our trade assets.

McGee has gotten injured a lot the last couple seasons and JRich is toast.

I would rather focus on the following guys, whether it be free agency or trade(s)

-Deandre Jordan
-Marc Gasol
-Rudy Gay
-Al Horford (if he can stay healthy)

Based on feedback I got in the Klay Thompson thread, I would also throw David Lee on that list.

Maybe the Warriors look to move him if they extend Thompson, and personally I've always liked David Lee.

That's funny because I'm pretty sure we can do better than David Lee for sure... Sully is better than him at this point.
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
We're the same and we're not; know what I'm saying? Listen
Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different

Offline crimson_stallion

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5964
  • Tommy Points: 875
We are not yet so desperate to dump draft picks or to dump Wallace...And god, why oh why would we want the inefficient Josh Smith on the books for $14 MILLION PER YEAR FOR THE NEXT THREE YEARS! Ugh....

THIS

3 awful deals.  At one point Green for Smith would have been a good deal but not with the way Smith played last year and for that contract of his.

Because Josh Smith is a lot like Rajon Rondo in that he is an elite athlete and one of the most skilled (and versatile) players in the league at his position.  He can impact gamers in ways that few other players can because he is basically a walking triple double waiting to happen.

But the problem with Smith is that he absolutely must be in the right situation in order for him to excel, and this has led to him struggling in some of his past roles (like last season).   

Here are some reasons why we might want Smith on this team.


1 - Inside scoring
For his career Josh Smith he has shot 67% from within three feet of the basket.  Over his past three seasons he has shot between 70% - 77% from that range. 

That is absolutely elite efficiency around the basket no matter how you look at it, and it explains why Josh Smith has shot a much higher percentage from the field in the seasons where he played PF (as opposed to the seasons where he played SF). 

Smith's worst shooting spots are 10-16 feet, and from three.  When he's playing the SF spot he is naturally going to spend more time on the perimeter, and so it's inevitable that he's going to take more of those shots...and less shots around the basket.  This will impact Josh Smith's game more than most players because there is such an extreme swing between his percentage inside the paint (67%) versus his percentages from the perimeter (~26%). 

It's the reason why Josh Smith played so horribly last season in Detroit - Josh Smith struggles at SF the same way Avery Bradley struggles at PG.  Put him at the PF spot and he's a different beast entirely.


2. Interior Defence
Last season Josh Smith (statistically) ranked among the upper echelon of NBA players in terms of Opponent FG% around the basket.  From what I recall he was top 15 or top 20 in the entire NBA and above guys like Omer Asik, Tyson Chandler, etc. 

Over his career Josh Smith has never averaged less than 1.5 blocks per 36 minutes, and he's average >2.2 blocks per 36 in five of his ten seasons as a pro. 

Josh Smith may only be 6'8" and 225 pounds, but regardless of his size he is absolutely and unquestionable one of the leagues elite rim protector.  This is something that would be very helpful on a Celtics team that currently has absolutely zero rim protection.


3. Perimeter defence
Not only do we struggle with our rim protection right now, but we also struggle with our perimeter defence from out bigs.  Neither Olynyk or Sully is especially mobile physically, and both guys struggle to defend quicker bigs on the perimeter.

Josh Smith has the combination of length, strength and quickness to hold his own against any big man on the perimeter.  Guys like Theddous Young will blow straight by Sully or KO every single time, but he can't do that against Josh Smith.  More importantly, Smith has the combination of strength/quickness/size/length that allows him to switch onto quicker small forwards (like Durant) or stronger SF's (like Lebron / Carmello) if he gets forced to switch on a P&R.  Right now the only guy we have who can do that is Brandon Bass.


4. Transition Game
It is no secret that Brad Steven's game plan today is to run, run and run some more.  If you have both Sully and Olynyk on the court, that's two guys who are going to contribute little in the transition game. 

Josh Smith on the other hand may well be the scariest transition player in the league not called Lebron James.  He's scary fast end-to-end, he can finish above the rim, and he's strong enough that if you try to take that charge...you're going to feel it.   Not only is Josh Smith good at running, he loves to do it.   He's an excellent transition player, and would be a perfect fit alongside the likes of Jeff Green, Evan Turner, Avery Bradley, Marcus Smart and Rajon Rondo.


5. Passing Ability   
Not only has Brad Steven's stressed the desire for the uptempo/transition game this year, he has also openly expressed his desire to focus on ball movement and constant motion/passing.

Only twice in his entire career (his rookie and sophomore seasons) has Josh Smith averaged less than three assists per 36 minutes.  His career average is 3.2 Assists Per 36, and in his best seasons he was averaging just over 4 assists per 36. 

It often goes unnoticed, but Josh Smith is an exceptional passer at the PF spot.  He's up there with guys like Kevin Love and Kelly Olynyk, and basically one rung step below the Pau Gasol / Joakim Noah / Kevin Garnett (i.e. absolute elite) territory. 


6. Rebounding
Not only does Josh Smith defend the rim well, he's also a pretty good rebounder. 

Over 10 NBA seasons he has averaged below 8 rebounds per 36 minutes only three times.  Two out of those three were seasons in which he primary position was SF.  His career average is 8.3 rebounds per 36 minutes which (while not exceptional or elite) is certainly a pretty good number.


7. Keeping Rajon Rondo
So many people here have been pushing for Boston to get another noteworthy player so that we can convince Rajon Rondo to stay in Boston.

It's been well documented in the past that Rajon Rondo and Josh Smith are good personal friends, and that they have (for years) pondered about how much fun it would be to play together.

Josh Smith is also a borderline All-Star calibre player.

If Boston brings in Josh Smith, you can almost guarantee that Rondo re-signs with Boston in the off season. 

Having a team that contains Rondo and Josh Smith also immediately increases our appeal as a free agent destination, increasing the possibility of big name guys (like Marc Gasol) signing here next season, when we have tons of cap space.

Imagine how well Josh Smith and Marc Gasol would fit together in the front court?  They would complement each other almost perfectly, and would be one of the most dominant defensive front-courts in the league.  Add a perimeter rotation of Rondo / Smart / Bradley / Green and you have a defensive lineup that would probably make the 2008 Celtics look merely 'decent'...and a pretty solid offensive lineup too.   


8. Value
One of the really great things with Smith is that his value is at an all-time low.  He's on a relatively pricey contract (that will last the next 3 years) and he's coming off a season where he put up some of the worst numbers of his career (no fault of his own).  Now is a perfect opportunity to buy low.  There is a good chance we could acquire Smih

Also that $14M a year seems like a lot now, but once this new TV deal goes in (and the NBA salary cap jumps through the roof) Josh Smiths' deal has the potential to be one of the league's great bargains.  The fact that he still has three years left is actually a huge appeal, not a concern.   

Right now, I think Boston is absolutely the perfect fit for Josh Smith and his skill set.  Moving forward I think he'd be a huge asset to the team as well in terms of both his talent, and in terms of helping us to attract key free agents.     

I would make this below offer to Detroit absolutely without hesitation:

Detroit Recieves (total $14,8M):
* Jared Sullinger
* Evan Turner
* Gerald Wallace
* 2 x Second Round Picks (from Pilly)
* 1 x First Round Pick (from Cleveland)

Boston Receives (total $16.3M):
* Josh Smith
* Luigi Datome
* Kyle Singler

Notes:
Detroit gets a talented young backup PF on a rookie contract (Sully)
Detroit gets a much needed starting calibre SF (Turner)
Detroit gets two firsts and a late second (to help compensate for taking on Wallace)

Boston gets two expiring contracts (Datome and Singler) worth combined $2.8M
Boston gets a much needed rim protector and star to help draw in free agents
Boston gets to shed the (un-tradeable) contract of Gerald Wallace
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 11:25:01 PM by crimson_stallion »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3097
  • Tommy Points: 191
  • Celtic's only raise championship Banners
These trades make us worse imo

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 36889
  • Tommy Points: 2969
Josh Smith ....got to be kidding.... LOL.....if he was any good Lakers would have been after him.  No future ....he is now an additional bench player for a contender

Sully is worth three of today's Josh Smith....... I would n't trade AB for him....

Offline pearljammer10

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13129
  • Tommy Points: 885
There's so many things wrong with these trades and they make up worse by far.

Trade 1: Bynum can't be traded with anybody else. I assume you're talking about our 2015 first? I wouldn't mind taking a chance on McGee but not at the expense of a first round pick.

Trade 2: Wallace, Philly's 2nds, and a 2016 first for Jason Richardson...Really? That's terrible. I'd rather keep the picks and hang onto Wallace's extra $ rather than save some dough. Plus Wallace makes about 4mil more than Rich so I don't think salaries match up.

Trade 3: Wouldn't happen. One for salary reasons. Two the Pistons would want picks as well as Green for Smith. This is the only trade I could see having some legs as they could then start Green, Monroe, and Drummond an Smith would no longer have to play SF (but he would then have to play small forward for us which just defeats the point).

Offline crimson_stallion

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5964
  • Tommy Points: 875
Josh Smith ....got to be kidding.... LOL.....if he was any good Lakers would have been after him.  No future ....he is now an additional bench player for a contender

Sully is worth three of today's Josh Smith....... I would n't trade AB for him....

That's truly one of the most rediculous comments I've ever seen.

The only things Sully has over Josh Smith are rebounding and free throw shooting.  In absolutely every single other statistical category Josh Smith is a superior player...and in a lot of them its by a long way.

Lets see a list of areas where Josh Smith is better than Sully:

Inside scoring
Passing
Ball handling
Shot blocking and interior defense
Steals and perimeter defense
Transition game
Athleticism
Stamina
Self control (less technicals / flagrants)

Josh Smith has been a starter and borderline all-star for his entire career and has been a top 3 player on multiple playoff teams while Sully struggled to keep a starting spot on a lottery team that just finished with the 5th worst record in the entire NBA.

Need I really say more?

« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 06:59:31 PM by crimson_stallion »

Offline Nerf DPOY

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2509
  • Tommy Points: 377
I don't hate the McGee idea if we can get him at a bargain basement price. We gave up a 2nd to move Lee's deal, and he instantly became a key player on a legit contender; So I guess I'm saying maybe we can benefit from a "reclamation project" type. Given that McGee makes 12 mil next year and has fallen down the depth chart, I can't imagine the price being too steep. I'd move Bass, Vitor, and the Clipps pick.

And he's still just 26.