Author Topic: We are going to be better than people think  (Read 30736 times)

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Re: We are going to be better than people think
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2014, 11:08:22 PM »

Offline Chris22

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We are making the playoffs.  This is a diff team than last seasons.

Only player that can mess things up is Rondo.   

If Rondo adapts, we could be better than just the 8th seed. If Rondo pounds the ball and gambles on defense , we are doomed.

+1

Re: We are going to be better than people think
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2014, 11:11:45 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I have ingested things that have substantially changed the way I view reality in not insignificant proportions on a not irregular basis at certain points in my life, but I have never been so loaded that I would agree with the above.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: We are going to be better than people think
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2014, 11:38:04 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I have ingested things that have substantially changed the way I view reality in not insignificant proportions on a not irregular basis at certain points in my life, but I have never been so loaded that I would agree with the above.

Then don't.   You don't always have to have a Durant, Westbrook, Paul, Griffin to be a good team.  That is how most ppl think that you have a chance in the world in this league.

Look at what BS is trying to do with this team. Have as many ppl good at shooting the threes (even PFs like KO, SUlly, Bass).  Pull their man away from the basket and open things up underneath the basket.  There can be damage done

On the defensive end bc our perimeter defenders are our strongest, have them press sooner and harder , kill time on the clock. Not get beat on the PNR.   If there is an elite Big man working the post, double team as soon as it becomes an issue.  Utilize your strength and be consistent about it

Worse case we got a deep bench. If AB is struggling, Thornton could step up and give you 18 pts. If Sully is struggling, Zeller could step up and give you 15.  We have the tools and a bright coach to be better than avg imo. 

Re: We are going to be better than people think
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2014, 11:43:10 PM »

Offline vinnie

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I have ingested things that have substantially changed the way I view reality in not insignificant proportions on a not irregular basis at certain points in my life, but I have never been so loaded that I would agree with the above.

Ditto

Re: We are going to be better than people think
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2014, 11:45:43 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I have ingested things that have substantially changed the way I view reality in not insignificant proportions on a not irregular basis at certain points in my life, but I have never been so loaded that I would agree with the above.

Ditto

well luckily for us, we are not playing against west conf teams. Outside of 4 or 5 teams, we shouldn't be scared and have a chance to beat anyone from the east.

You guys should be a little more optimistic. For me this is going to be an exciting up coming season bc we should be a better team vs last seasons version. As long as we keep progressing, i'm a happy camper

Re: We are going to be better than people think
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2014, 11:55:42 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Seems reasonable to debate whether or not we will sneak into the playoffs. I honestly think we will, though I admit to being persuaded by bias.

I like BS's mentality and approach to the game. Whether we are "successful" or not, I do think he is capable of getting the most out of what we have. With regard to Sully, as others have mentioned, I do think (and said 2 years ago) that he will perform at a borderline all-star level.
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Re: We are going to be better than people think
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2014, 11:59:06 PM »

Offline NYDan

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I'm pretty impressed that this year's team has already established a strong identity. Disruptive defensive guard play, ball movement, Jared Sullinger, 3 pointers. Hard to predict, but if everyone stays healthy and Rondo can take the team to another level it could be a fun season ahead. Even if some moves are made, the core system seems to be in place.

Re: We are going to be better than people think
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2014, 06:38:49 AM »

Offline greece66

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I'm pretty impressed that this year's team has already established a strong identity. Disruptive defensive guard play, ball movement, Jared Sullinger, 3 pointers. Hard to predict, but if everyone stays healthy and Rondo can take the team to another level it could be a fun season ahead. Even if some moves are made, the core system seems to be in place.
TP
I very much agree with the spirit of this spot. This is the direction we are moving to. A team with a defined identity and a core of players. It will take some years for everything to be in place, but we are  at last moving in a direction (unlike last year, which was a real mess).
Having said this, finding a team identity does not directly translate into more wins, so I would not get over-excited on this front.

Re: We are going to be better than people think
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2014, 07:14:46 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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I do think this team will be better then expected. I think this team would have been fringe playoff team LAST YEAR. This year the easy has improved and I expect this team to be around +/- 35 wins. Ten more then last year and 3 short of the 38 that got the hawks the 8th seed. I think the east shakes out as follows:

1. Bulls       
2. Cavs       
3. Wiz         
4. Raptors   
5. Heat       
6. Bobcats 
7. Hawks   
8. Pacers   
------------
9. Pistons
10. Nets
11. Celtics
12. Knicks
13. Magic
14. Bucks
15. 76ers

I could flip 9-12 in any order with the Pacers barely holding onto the 8th seed. I wouldn't be shocked to see the Hawks go after Jeff Green at the trade deadline to solidify themselves for the playoffs. Either way ATL makes for a tough first round for the Cavs. This trade will likely take away any chance of a surprise Cs playoff push.

The Cs hole at center defensively is what separates them from the 7th and 8th seeds but their perimeter defense and depth will win them games.     
Mavs
Wiz
Hornet

Re: We are going to be better than people think
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2014, 07:26:18 AM »

Offline greece66

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I do think this team will be better then expected. I think this team would have been fringe playoff team LAST YEAR. This year the easy has improved and I expect this team to be around +/- 35 wins. Ten more then last year and 3 short of the 38 that got the hawks the 8th seed. I think the east shakes out as follows:

1. Bulls       
2. Cavs       
3. Wiz         
4. Raptors   
5. Heat       
6. Bobcats 
7. Hawks   
8. Pacers   
------------
9. Pistons
10. Nets
11. Celtics
12. Knicks
13. Magic
14. Bucks
15. 76ers

I could flip 9-12 in any order with the Pacers barely holding onto the 8th seed. I wouldn't be shocked to see the Hawks go after Jeff Green at the trade deadline to solidify themselves for the playoffs. Either way ATL makes for a tough first round for the Cavs. This trade will likely take away any chance of a surprise Cs playoff push.

The Cs hole at center defensively is what separates them from the 7th and 8th seeds but their perimeter defense and depth will win them games.     
Lots of good points in your post. I understand this is not your main point, but IMHO you really overestimate Indiana's chances of entering the playoffs. Nets, Pistons and NYK (in this order) have better chances.

Re: We are going to be better than people think
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2014, 07:58:58 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I do think this team will be better then expected. I think this team would have been fringe playoff team LAST YEAR. This year the easy has improved and I expect this team to be around +/- 35 wins. Ten more then last year and 3 short of the 38 that got the hawks the 8th seed. I think the east shakes out as follows:

1. Bulls       
2. Cavs       
3. Wiz         
4. Raptors   
5. Heat      
6. Bobcats 
7. Hawks   
8. Pacers    
------------
9. Pistons
10. Nets
11. Celtics
12. Knicks
13. Magic
14. Bucks
15. 76ers

I could flip 9-12 in any order with the Pacers barely holding onto the 8th seed. I wouldn't be shocked to see the Hawks go after Jeff Green at the trade deadline to solidify themselves for the playoffs. Either way ATL makes for a tough first round for the Cavs. This trade will likely take away any chance of a surprise Cs playoff push.

The Cs hole at center defensively is what separates them from the 7th and 8th seeds but their perimeter defense and depth will win them games.     

There are no guarantee these two teams will make the playoffs, due to health reasons.

For the past what, 3 season, how many games has Dwade and also Bosh missed?  Bc lebron is not there, and these guys will have to do even more, its unlikely this trend will change. It may get worse actually

The Pacers won't have George prob until the all star break?  That was a devastating injury.  They also lost one of their best ball handlers in Lance Stephenson.   Roy Hibbert has buckled under pressure even with a stacked team.  Alot of other things will have to go right, for the Pacers to make it into the playoffs

Lebron leaving and PGs injury will give other teams a better chance to fight for a playoff spot this season

Re: We are going to be better than people think
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2014, 08:18:29 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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I do think this team will be better then expected. I think this team would have been fringe playoff team LAST YEAR. This year the easy has improved and I expect this team to be around +/- 35 wins. Ten more then last year and 3 short of the 38 that got the hawks the 8th seed. I think the east shakes out as follows:

1. Bulls       
2. Cavs       
3. Wiz         
4. Raptors   
5. Heat      
6. Bobcats 
7. Hawks   
8. Pacers    
------------
9. Pistons
10. Nets
11. Celtics
12. Knicks
13. Magic
14. Bucks
15. 76ers

I could flip 9-12 in any order with the Pacers barely holding onto the 8th seed. I wouldn't be shocked to see the Hawks go after Jeff Green at the trade deadline to solidify themselves for the playoffs. Either way ATL makes for a tough first round for the Cavs. This trade will likely take away any chance of a surprise Cs playoff push.

The Cs hole at center defensively is what separates them from the 7th and 8th seeds but their perimeter defense and depth will win them games.     

There are no guarantee these two teams will make the playoffs, due to health reasons.

For the past what, 3 season, how many games has Dwade and also Bosh missed?  Bc lebron is not there, and these guys will have to do even more, its unlikely this trend will change. It may get worse actually

The Pacers won't have George prob until the all star break?  That was a devastating injury.  They also lost one of their best ball handlers in Lance Stephenson.   Roy Hibbert has buckled under pressure even with a stacked team.  Alot of other things will have to go right, for the Pacers to make it into the playoffs

Lebron leaving and PGs injury will give other teams a better chance to fight for a playoff spot this season

The Heat should have no problem fighting for home court advantage even if Wade and Bosh rest 20 games each. Once they get into the playoffs they might be the toughest East team to beat due to their experience.

Like I mentioned in another thread yesterday... Yeah Wade is getting old and has been plauged by injury. He also consistently has averaged 19-20 points, 4.5+ rebounds, and 4.5+ assists with 1.5+steals every year of his career despite the injuries and age.

Re: We are going to be better than people think
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2014, 08:42:16 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I think it can be difficult to compare this year to last year.  On Dec 31 last year, we were on pace to win 36 games without Rondo but we had Jordan Crawford playing at an exceptional level along with some other players who performed well.  Crawford's run did not last and he was traded and we went on to win only 25 games total with Rondo on the court for many of the remaining games.

The break down this year seems to have the same groupings as last year as I recall (east conf).  There is the top tier (Cle, Chi, and maybe Tor, Wash,) then a much bigger middle tier this year (Mia, Atl, Bkn, Nyk, and Cha) and then there is the bottom tier which unfortunately, I believe the Celtics will be in again (Bos, Phi, Mil, Orl).

The remaining teams (Det, Ind) harder to peg.  They will probably be middle teams but they also could easily be lower tier.  Some of my assumptions:
  • I think Bkn will be good enough to be mid pack with Williams, Johnson, Lopez, and KG.  Injuries could derail that but there is a lot more talent there than the Celtics have
  • I think the knicks will be good.  They have Carmelo and enough of a supporting cast to be out of the bottom tier
  • Ind lost their two top players (arguably).  Very hard to gauge how they will do
  • Detroit has the talent and a new coach so they could make the leap but we have been saying that for a few years

So I am at 25 to 30 wins, in the bottom 4 or 5 teams, but lots of exciting games and individual player development.
[/list]

Re: We are going to be better than people think
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2014, 09:20:33 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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We are making the playoffs.  This is a diff team than last seasons.

Only player that can mess things up is Rondo.   

If Rondo adapts, we could be better than just the 8th seed. If Rondo pounds the ball and gambles on defense , we are doomed.

+1
There is a paradox with Rondo though (or maybe a Catch 22 of sorts).  If Rondo "adapts" and plays the ball movement game, he negates what is his primary contribution to the offense.  Once he doesn't have the ball anymore, what does he add to the offense?

When Rondo is pounding the ball and trying to make flashy passes, he is at HIS best but the team is not at their best.  If Rondo passes the ball just to keep the ball moving, which is better for the team, then he just goes and stands in the corner or under the basket.  He then just watches because he can't catch and shoot, can't draw defenders, can't really do anything unless he has the ball.

Doc tried everything (I believe) but then finally conceded that if he was going to have Rondo on the court, you may as well let him pound.  It is part attitude but also part ability.  It will be interesting to see what Stevens comes up with but I think it will take more than Rondo adapting to make this team good.

Re: We are going to be better than people think
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2014, 09:23:02 AM »

Offline greece66

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We are making the playoffs.  This is a diff team than last seasons.

Only player that can mess things up is Rondo.   

If Rondo adapts, we could be better than just the 8th seed. If Rondo pounds the ball and gambles on defense , we are doomed.

+1
There is a paradox with Rondo though (or maybe a Catch 22 of sorts).  If Rondo "adapts" and plays the ball movement game, he negates what is his primary contribution to the offense.  Once he doesn't have the ball anymore, what does he add to the offense?

When Rondo is pounding the ball and trying to make flashy passes, he is at HIS best but the team is not at their best.  If Rondo passes the ball just to keep the ball moving, which is better for the team, then he just goes and stands in the corner or under the basket.  He then just watches because he can't catch and shoot, can't draw defenders, can't really do anything unless he has the ball.

Doc tried everything (I believe) but then finally conceded that if he was going to have Rondo on the court, you may as well let him pound.  It is part attitude but also part ability.  It will be interesting to see what Stevens comes up with but I think it will take more than Rondo adapting to make this team good.
TP
IMHO you nailed the issue between Rondo and Stevens' system.