We are going to be better than people think

[Kadin]

We are making the playoffs.  This is a diff team than last seasons.

Only player that can mess things up is Rondo.   

If Rondo adapts, we could be better than just the 8th seed. If Rondo pounds the ball and gambles on defense , we are doomed.

+1

There is a paradox with Rondo though (or maybe a Catch 22 of sorts).  If Rondo "adapts" and plays the ball movement game, he negates what is his primary contribution to the offense.  Once he doesn't have the ball anymore, what does he add to the offense?

Rondo just needs to have the ball in his hands for the last 6 to 8 seconds of the shot clock.

Mike

To do what? dance around? He is the last person right now i want the ball with less than 8 seconds

Do you even WATCH basketball?

Mike

Yes. But i dont think you do.

When has Rondo been known as a clutch scorer with the clock running out??

I guess next you will say is he will find someone.  But then if he does they will have what 3 sec to score?

You dont give the ball to someone with time running out hoping he makes the clutch pass

Game 7 in the playoffs against Philly a few years ago. Pierce fouled out, Rondo took over and lead us to the next round with some clutch scoring. I realize you don't like Rondo, but to pretend that he hasn't come through for us in big moments is just wrong.

Edit: Here's the game I was talking about. http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=320526002

Read it and weep, hater.

[cb8883]

We are making the playoffs.  This is a diff team than last seasons.

Only player that can mess things up is Rondo.   

If Rondo adapts, we could be better than just the 8th seed. If Rondo pounds the ball and gambles on defense , we are doomed.

+1

There is a paradox with Rondo though (or maybe a Catch 22 of sorts).  If Rondo "adapts" and plays the ball movement game, he negates what is his primary contribution to the offense.  Once he doesn't have the ball anymore, what does he add to the offense?

Rondo just needs to have the ball in his hands for the last 6 to 8 seconds of the shot clock.

Mike

To do what? dance around? He is the last person right now i want the ball with less than 8 seconds

Do you even WATCH basketball?

Mike

Yes. But i dont think you do.

When has Rondo been known as a clutch scorer with the clock running out??

I guess next you will say is he will find someone.  But then if he does they will have what 3 sec to score?

You dont give the ball to someone with time running out hoping he makes the clutch pass

Game 7 in the playoffs against Philly a few years ago. Pierce fouled out, Rondo took over and lead us to the next round with some clutch scoring. I realize you don't like Rondo, but to pretend that he hasn't come through for us in big moments is just wrong.

Edit: Here's the game I was talking about. http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=320526002

Read it and weep, hater.

This is the problem I have with the Rondo is a superstar crowd. Generally superstars have big moments every year. However, this series is always the crutch for the Rondo is a star argument. The Celtics were supposed to win that series and almost blew it. Yes for one game Rondo played like a star when it mattered. I remember when Mike Bibby was with Sacremento and played well for the entire playoffs. So is Rondo equal to Bibby in his prime? I don't know. I do know that he is not a star player but is probably a valuable role player as a 4th option on an actual contender.

You cannot win with Rajon Rondo as your best player. Just cannot do it.

[wdleehi]

We are making the playoffs.  This is a diff team than last seasons.

Only player that can mess things up is Rondo.   

If Rondo adapts, we could be better than just the 8th seed. If Rondo pounds the ball and gambles on defense , we are doomed.

+1

There is a paradox with Rondo though (or maybe a Catch 22 of sorts).  If Rondo "adapts" and plays the ball movement game, he negates what is his primary contribution to the offense.  Once he doesn't have the ball anymore, what does he add to the offense?

Rondo just needs to have the ball in his hands for the last 6 to 8 seconds of the shot clock.

Mike

To do what? dance around? He is the last person right now i want the ball with less than 8 seconds

Do you even WATCH basketball?

Mike

Yes. But i dont think you do.

When has Rondo been known as a clutch scorer with the clock running out??

I guess next you will say is he will find someone.  But then if he does they will have what 3 sec to score?

You dont give the ball to someone with time running out hoping he makes the clutch pass

Game 7 in the playoffs against Philly a few years ago. Pierce fouled out, Rondo took over and lead us to the next round with some clutch scoring. I realize you don't like Rondo, but to pretend that he hasn't come through for us in big moments is just wrong.

Edit: Here's the game I was talking about. http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=320526002

Read it and weep, hater.

This is the problem I have with the Rondo is a superstar crowd. Generally superstars have big moments every year. However, this series is always the crutch for the Rondo is a star argument. The Celtics were supposed to win that series and almost blew it. Yes for one game Rondo played like a star when it mattered. I remember when Mike Bibby was with Sacremento and played well for the entire playoffs. So is Rondo equal to Bibby in his prime? I don't know. I do know that he is not a star player but is probably a valuable role player as a 4th option on an actual contender.

You cannot win with Rajon Rondo as your best player. Just cannot do it.

Then what is the point of this thread since Rondo is clearly the best player on the Celtics.




But of course you can win with Rondo as your best player.  We have seen success the Celtics have had at times when Rondo was the best player in the series. 


No, the issue is that the rest of the teams talent level is not at a playoff level.  Some of it can grow to that level.  Some of it could be support players at that level.  But none of them are part of the centerpiece of such a team.


I do believe this team will be better this year, but I don't necessarily believe we will be able to see that improvement in the record.

[playdream]

I will surely say the playoff Rondo was a star, even a top level player
but i don't know if he can still do that after those injuries

On the other hand regular season Rondo was not even at the all-star level
maybe still the best player on the team now, just maybe

He still has to prove that he can adjust to BS's up-tempo and ball-moving style
and the team is better with him then without him
otherwise i'm afraid he will soon to be shipped out of town

[2short]

I will surely say the playoff Rondo was a star, even a top level player
but i don't know if he can still do that after those injuries

On the other hand regular season Rondo was not even at the all-star level
maybe still the best player on the team now, just maybe

He still has to prove that he can adjust to BS's up-tempo and ball-moving style
and the team is better with him then without him
otherwise i'm afraid he will soon to be shipped out of town

I think people really forget that rondo came to the celtics a fast break point guard and he altered HIS game to fit doc and the vets.  I cannot count the times he ran a one man fast break with that group.

[D.o.s.]

We are making the playoffs.  This is a diff team than last seasons.

Only player that can mess things up is Rondo.   

If Rondo adapts, we could be better than just the 8th seed. If Rondo pounds the ball and gambles on defense , we are doomed.

+1

There is a paradox with Rondo though (or maybe a Catch 22 of sorts).  If Rondo "adapts" and plays the ball movement game, he negates what is his primary contribution to the offense.  Once he doesn't have the ball anymore, what does he add to the offense?

Rondo just needs to have the ball in his hands for the last 6 to 8 seconds of the shot clock.

Mike

To do what? dance around? He is the last person right now i want the ball with less than 8 seconds

Do you even WATCH basketball?

Mike

Yes. But i dont think you do.

When has Rondo been known as a clutch scorer with the clock running out??

I guess next you will say is he will find someone.  But then if he does they will have what 3 sec to score?

You dont give the ball to someone with time running out hoping he makes the clutch pass

Game 7 in the playoffs against Philly a few years ago. Pierce fouled out, Rondo took over and lead us to the next round with some clutch scoring. I realize you don't like Rondo, but to pretend that he hasn't come through for us in big moments is just wrong.

Edit: Here's the game I was talking about. http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=320526002

Read it and weep, hater.

I don't know if I would use a series against a mediocre Philly team as an example of Rondo's superstar play.

[Celtics18]

Rondo had a fantastic 4th quarter of game seven against the Sixers in that playoff series, but overall that series was by no means his most his most impressive.

2009 against the Bulls
2010 against the Cavs
2011 against the Knicks
2012 against the Heat

Were all better overall performances by Rondo than the Sixers series in question.  The above playoff performances are largely responsible for cementing his place as a star in this league.

The assertion that Rondo's play against the Sixers in 2012 represents his "one shining playoff moment" is completely divorced from reality.   

[D.o.s.]

Agreed, although I'm not sure anyone is saying that.

It does seem like the Rondo arguments do devolve into, basically, identity politics for Celtics fans on here.

[Celtics18]

Agreed, although I'm not sure anyone is saying that.

It does seem like the Rondo arguments do devolve into, basically, identity politics for Celtics fans on here.

There's only one poster who's been making that claim over and over again.  Other than cb8883, you're right, no one else is really saying that. 

As far as the "identity politics" go, I can speak for myself and say that I do identify myself as a Rondo fan. 

I feel no shame about that. 

[Vermont Green]

ESPN has weighted in FWIW.  Below is the east order with overall rank in ( ) and the ---- being the playoffs cutoff.

1. Cle (2)
2. Chi (3)

3. Tor (9)
4. Wash (11)

5. Cha (13)
6. Atl (15)
7. Mia (16)
8. Bkn (19)
----------------------------------------
9. Det (20)
10. Nyk (21)
11. Ind (22)

12. Mil (26)
13. Bos (27)
14. Orl (29)
15. Phi (30)

I agree completely with the top 4 and the bottom 4, the middle 7 could go a lot of different ways.

[Rondo9]

ESPN has weighted in FWIW.  Below is the east order with overall rank in ( ) and the ---- being the playoffs cutoff.

1. Cle (2)
2. Chi (3)

3. Tor (9)
4. Wash (11)

5. Cha (13)
6. Atl (15)
7. Mia (16)
8. Bkn (19)
----------------------------------------
9. Det (20)
10. Nyk (21)
11. Ind (22)

12. Mil (26)
13. Bos (27)
14. Orl (29)
15. Phi (30)

I agree completely with the top 4 and the bottom 4, the middle 7 could go a lot of different ways.

Boston worse than the Bucks?

[BballTim]

We are making the playoffs.  This is a diff team than last seasons.

Only player that can mess things up is Rondo.   

If Rondo adapts, we could be better than just the 8th seed. If Rondo pounds the ball and gambles on defense , we are doomed.

+1

There is a paradox with Rondo though (or maybe a Catch 22 of sorts).  If Rondo "adapts" and plays the ball movement game, he negates what is his primary contribution to the offense.  Once he doesn't have the ball anymore, what does he add to the offense?

Rondo just needs to have the ball in his hands for the last 6 to 8 seconds of the shot clock.

Mike

To do what? dance around? He is the last person right now i want the ball with less than 8 seconds

Do you even WATCH basketball?

Mike

Yes. But i dont think you do.

When has Rondo been known as a clutch scorer with the clock running out??

I guess next you will say is he will find someone.  But then if he does they will have what 3 sec to score?

You dont give the ball to someone with time running out hoping he makes the clutch pass

Game 7 in the playoffs against Philly a few years ago. Pierce fouled out, Rondo took over and lead us to the next round with some clutch scoring. I realize you don't like Rondo, but to pretend that he hasn't come through for us in big moments is just wrong.

Edit: Here's the game I was talking about. http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=320526002

Read it and weep, hater.

I don't know if I would use a series against a mediocre Philly team as an example of Rondo's superstar play.

  They were the 3rd rated defense in the league that year. Rondo was terrific in all three playoff series that year, and the opponents were 3rd, 4th and 6th in the league in defense.

[Vermont Green]

ESPN has weighted in FWIW.  Below is the east order with overall rank in ( ) and the ---- being the playoffs cutoff.

1. Cle (2)
2. Chi (3)

3. Tor (9)
4. Wash (11)

5. Cha (13)
6. Atl (15)
7. Mia (16)
8. Bkn (19)
----------------------------------------
9. Det (20)
10. Nyk (21)
11. Ind (22)

12. Mil (26)
13. Bos (27)
14. Orl (29)
15. Phi (30)

I agree completely with the top 4 and the bottom 4, the middle 7 could go a lot of different ways.

Boston worse than the Bucks?

I think they are banking on Jabari Parker being good.

[nickagneta]

Interesting that the crowd of bloggers that put tremendous stock in youth are the ones in this thread suggesting a playoff berth for the Celtics. Many of those same bloggers are the same ones that call for Rondo to be gone at any cost and feel his input to this team will hinder it from winning.

I have been watching NBA basketball religiously since 1974 and my experience is that young teams lose and lose a lot. Experienced players with talent win in this league. This team winning more than say, 32-35 games just goes against everything I have seen in the NBA over the last 40 years with the exception of one team, the 2009-10 and 2010-11 OKC Thunder.

[Rondo9]

ESPN has weighted in FWIW.  Below is the east order with overall rank in ( ) and the ---- being the playoffs cutoff.

1. Cle (2)
2. Chi (3)

3. Tor (9)
4. Wash (11)

5. Cha (13)
6. Atl (15)
7. Mia (16)
8. Bkn (19)
----------------------------------------
9. Det (20)
10. Nyk (21)
11. Ind (22)

12. Mil (26)
13. Bos (27)
14. Orl (29)
15. Phi (30)

I agree completely with the top 4 and the bottom 4, the middle 7 could go a lot of different ways.

Boston worse than the Bucks?

I think they are banking on Jabari Parker being good.

I doubt Jabari is going to be Carmelo Anthony good in his rookie year and his defense is atrocious.