Author Topic: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia  (Read 11466 times)

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Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2014, 08:17:20 PM »

Offline 35Lewis

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I think Philly has the potential to have one of the best young core in the league but it's a LOT of if's. Too much risk with their roster but I would've taken that risk if I were them.

The greater concern for the fans is the bad habits the GM has developed.  He's done nothing to prove he can creatively add to the roster other than becoming a salary dump for draft picks.  GM's are like basketball players, and they need to refine their skills.  Look at how Danny experimented with several trades and then he found a few that worked and got lucky with some free agents.  He tried mimicking that and failed and then he went the other direction and had a little success with an aging roster.  His revamp thus far has been creative and has shown that he has the ability to make something from nothing.  His drafting has been touch and go but you can see learning a little from that while sticking with his proven tactic of taking experienced college players in the second round.

So, I think Philly has a little chance to be good but it's not a guarantee that they'll be the next Thunder like they want. 

Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2014, 08:24:05 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Anyone who wouldnt trade the celtics roster for the sixers roster is on crack. Their players are more valuable and they have the ammo to load up quick or continue to stockpile talent and become the next OKC. Idk I guess you guys are all cool with mediocrity and trying to be the atlanta hawks this year. This is boston, and it's championship or bust. If you arent a legit contender get out.

Yeah, you beat me to it.  Who wouldn't want a core of MCW, Embiid, and Noel moving forward, in addition to having Tony Wroten, KJ McDaniels (a personal favorite of mine), and even Henry Sims, who's proven to be more than capable?  They also aren't saddled with any horrible contracts like we are, so, what's not to like?

We'll see about all that. Embiid and Noel have been plagued by injuries, MCW is old considering that he's only in his 2nd season and they were trying to trade him for a top 10 pick (according to reports) with no takers, Wroten and Sims look like career journeymen, and McDaniels signed a 1 year deal.

What "horrible" contracts are we saddled with? The salary cap is rising, so theoretically we could stretch Wallace out during the off-season with very little consequence, percentage wise, to our cap. Other than that one, which again isn't horrible as I've explained, which other one are you referring to?

Sorry, I was only referring to Wallace's contract, but what do you mean by stretching out his deal in the offseason?  At least the 76ers have a general direction, while we seem to be torn between blowing it up and packaging guys for proven players.  Plus, if Embiid can play, he could be amazing, and Noel is no slouch, either.  That's 2/3 of an awesome front line down the road already, and getting big guys like them is extremely difficult because of how rare such players like Embiid are.

Using the stretch provision.

We do have a general direction, which is player development/collecting assets (don't forget the haul of picks we have including the Sixers 2nd rd pick the next 2 seasons). Plus, you're failing to account for our coach, GM, and ownership group all of which taken as a whole make me take the C's over the Sixers.

Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2014, 09:42:24 PM »

Offline colincb

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Hinkie, their GM, will be out of the NBA in 5 years never to return.

Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2014, 11:08:50 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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There's no real reason to stretch Wallace's contract.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2014, 12:46:44 AM »

Offline chambers

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The system is made to be exploited.

In a league where superstars and HOF players lead you to titles and finals appearances, the majority of hall of fame or franchise level players are selected with top 5 picks.
It's logic.
I'm a fan of it because Hinkie is trying to build a championship team from the ground up ala OKC and he believes that he's good enough to pick the right guys to have a good shot at acquiring a franchise guy.
All these stars teaming together are basically leaving teams no option.
We are just lucky we already have Rondo.
We did the same thing last season - obviously not in such an extreme fashion but I have my doubts that without junk contracts left over from the last 'big 3' run like Jeff Green, Bass etc that we wouldn't take an identical route.
 Danny's biggest flaw, if I had to point out one- is handing out multiple year contracts to mediocre players. I understand he was trying to extend the life of the big 3 and milk it for all it's worth while the East was weak- but these guys like Evan Turner just hurt us in my opinion.
Yes the aim is to build their value , but how much value are you really building in a 2 year deal from Evan Turner?
 What's the point of having him on this roster?
It's like Crawford last season- he was great, exceeded everyone's expectations and fun to watch- but his play probably win us 2 or 3 games that were simply pointless and we got what...two first round picks? Now he's gone.
 What will we get for Evan Turner ultimately? Maybe a late first round pick if we are really lucky?
He's going to take time from Avery and Smart (and Young), and he'll be gone next season's end regardless of what happens- he's also going to help us win a few more games before he flees. I just don't see the point.

We were incredibly lucky to get Smart at #6, but even this season having these chumps is only hurting us when they aren't part of the long term picture.

Hinkie isn't messing around- he hosed the pelicans and scored Noël, and now has gained Saric and Embid.
Yeah injuries are a concern for their bigs and tanking is a gamble- but they could be the best front court duo in the NBA in 5 years and competing for championships as Lebron starts to hit serious decline.

We currently only have one player in the NBA 's top 100 players being Rondo- who we also risk losing next offseason. We've tried to get Love but we were beaten by the team with the top 3 draft picks.

Championships are won by franchise guys, and that first franchise guy on your team is usually acquired via the draft. Philly didn't have anything close to that first franchise guy, so they've decided to try and beat the system.



« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 03:20:30 AM by chambers »
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2014, 12:46:57 AM »

Offline loco_91

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Philly is going to be good. The only question is how good.

Hinkie is absolutely killing it. He got the best prospect in last year's draft (Noel), the best prospect in this year's draft by far (Embiid), he reamed the Magic trading down two spots for a first and a second round pick (!), and oh, he managed to snag KJ McDaniels in round two. MCW was also a great pick.

Make no doubt about it, Hinkie is building a championship contender. I think Embiid could easily be a top-10 player in the NBA. Add Noel and you have the best frontcourt in the NBA, maybe by far. You can also imagine seeing the #1 NBA defense as they've been drafting defensive-minded wing prospects and guards, too (MCW, KJ, Jerami Grant).

The scariest thing is the tankfest isn't even done. They will be awful again this year without Embiid. Is this the year that Hinkie decides to end the rebuild and deal his potential #1 pick for a superstar?

To me, the real test for Hinkie will come in a few years as these guys' rookie contracts expire. He'll have several potential max contracts on board if all goes well, so cap space will suddenly become a precious commodity. If he can keep his core together and add a couple good cheap complementary  pieces, watch out.

Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2014, 12:49:40 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Anyone who wouldnt trade the celtics roster for the sixers roster is on crack. Their players are more valuable and they have the ammo to load up quick or continue to stockpile talent and become the next OKC. Idk I guess you guys are all cool with mediocrity and trying to be the atlanta hawks this year. This is boston, and it's championship or bust. If you arent a legit contender get out.

Yeah, you beat me to it.  Who wouldn't want a core of MCW, Embiid, and Noel moving forward, in addition to having Tony Wroten, KJ McDaniels (a personal favorite of mine), and even Henry Sims, who's proven to be more than capable?  They also aren't saddled with any horrible contracts like we are, so, what's not to like?

We'll see about all that. Embiid and Noel have been plagued by injuries, MCW is old considering that he's only in his 2nd season and they were trying to trade him for a top 10 pick (according to reports) with no takers, Wroten and Sims look like career journeymen, and McDaniels signed a 1 year deal.

What "horrible" contracts are we saddled with? The salary cap is rising, so theoretically we could stretch Wallace out during the off-season with very little consequence, percentage wise, to our cap. Other than that one, which again isn't horrible as I've explained, which other one are you referring to?

Sorry, I was only referring to Wallace's contract, but what do you mean by stretching out his deal in the offseason?  At least the 76ers have a general direction, while we seem to be torn between blowing it up and packaging guys for proven players.  Plus, if Embiid can play, he could be amazing, and Noel is no slouch, either.  That's 2/3 of an awesome front line down the road already, and getting big guys like them is extremely difficult because of how rare such players like Embiid are.

Using the stretch provision.

We do have a general direction, which is player development/collecting assets (don't forget the haul of picks we have including the Sixers 2nd rd pick the next 2 seasons). Plus, you're failing to account for our coach, GM, and ownership group all of which taken as a whole make me take the C's over the Sixers.

While I do think that our ownership group is fine, I can honestly say that I don't know where I stand on Stevens.  There are things to like about him, like his use of the trap, and certainly we don't have a great deal of talent right now, but our offense is still non-existent unless we're making a ton of 3s, which seems to be more of a college approach than anything else, so it's tough to really see a day down the road where that strategy will pay off, unfortunately, but, again, that's just me.  As for Ainge, I don't have enough time to explain why I don't like him lol, but, for once, I did agree with his draft choices lol.  Now, you can point to his assembling of our championship team, but that was, imo, more due to a once in a lifetime situation where all of the stars perfectly aligned at precisely the right time, not to mention his friendship with McHale.  I just get the sense that he really has no idea what he's doing.  The only thing predicable about Danny is that he will trade Rondo at some point :'(, and that he continuously shops his guys around, no matter who they are, as if they are chess pieces, and I've always found that characteristic of his very bothersome and deeply disturbing.

Btw, I know that I'm going to lose a lot of points from you by asking this, but, since I'm not familiar with it, what is the, "stretch provision?"  Does it allow the team to change a contract of, say, $4 million dollars over 2 years to $4 million dollars over 3 or 4 seasons?  Sorry.

Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2014, 01:15:17 AM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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Boston didn't get two first rounders for Crawford.  They got a heavily protected first rounder that will likely turn into a pair of second rounders over the next two years and another second rounder largely for taking on Joel Anthony's contract.

Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2014, 01:23:33 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Btw, I know that I'm going to lose a lot of points from you by asking this, but, since I'm not familiar with it, what is the, "stretch provision?"  Does it allow the team to change a contract of, say, $4 million dollars over 2 years to $4 million dollars over 3 or 4 seasons?  Sorry.

Yes but you have to waive the player in order to use it.

specifically:
Quote

    If the player is waived from July 1 to August 31, then his remaining salary is paid over twice the number of years remaining on his contract, plus one. For example, if the player is waived on August 1 with two seasons remaining on his contract at $10.2 million and $10.3 million, respectively, then his remaining salary is paid over five years (two seasons times two, plus one), in even amounts of $4.1 million per year.


    If the player is waived from September 1 to June 30, then the current season is paid per the normal payment schedule, and any remaining years are stretched over twice the number of years remaining plus one as described above. For example, if the player is waived on December 1 with two seasons remaining on his contract at $10.2 million and $10.5 million, respectively, then the current season (at $10.2 million) is paid normally, and the final season (at $10.5 million) is stretched over three years (one season times two, plus one) and paid in even amounts of $3.5 million per year3.

From the FAQ
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Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2014, 05:31:07 AM »

Offline get_banners

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I'll say that Philly fully embraced the idea of sucking to get good (which is probably the way to do it...though not necessarily by putting a D-League team out there, which risks your young talent developing terrible habits, as MCW might already be experiencing). And, on their own, each of their picks were probably the right picks. But all this together bodes for a potentially toxic mix. Your young guys might develop terrible (cough Antoine cough) habits as you don't even bother trying to playing winning basketball. And almost every one of their high ceiling picks carries huge risks. Plus, they might not have that long to really evaluate them properly (a huge potential issue with Embiid and Noel, both of whom have/might miss an entire season, both of whom have concerning injuries for big men, and both of whom are really raw) before having to pay them or let them walk. Philly is walking a dangerous path. If all breaks right, they have themselves a perennial contender in the East in 3 years. But its just as easy to assume Noel and Embiid are either busts and Saric takes forever to come over and isn't that good, and MCW continues to regress.

Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2014, 07:23:17 AM »

Offline greece66

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The system is made to be exploited.

In a league where superstars and HOF players lead you to titles and finals appearances, the majority of hall of fame or franchise level players are selected with top 5 picks.
It's logic.
I'm a fan of it because Hinkie is trying to build a championship team from the ground up ala OKC and he believes that he's good enough to pick the right guys to have a good shot at acquiring a franchise guy.
All these stars teaming together are basically leaving teams no option.
We are just lucky we already have Rondo.
We did the same thing last season - obviously not in such an extreme fashion but I have my doubts that without junk contracts left over from the last 'big 3' run like Jeff Green, Bass etc that we wouldn't take an identical route.
 Danny's biggest flaw, if I had to point out one- is handing out multiple year contracts to mediocre players. I understand he was trying to extend the life of the big 3 and milk it for all it's worth while the East was weak- but these guys like Evan Turner just hurt us in my opinion.
Yes the aim is to build their value , but how much value are you really building in a 2 year deal from Evan Turner?
 What's the point of having him on this roster?
It's like Crawford last season- he was great, exceeded everyone's expectations and fun to watch- but his play probably win us 2 or 3 games that were simply pointless and we got what...two first round picks? Now he's gone.
 What will we get for Evan Turner ultimately? Maybe a late first round pick if we are really lucky?
He's going to take time from Avery and Smart (and Young), and he'll be gone next season's end regardless of what happens- he's also going to help us win a few more games before he flees. I just don't see the point.

We were incredibly lucky to get Smart at #6, but even this season having these chumps is only hurting us when they aren't part of the long term picture.

Hinkie isn't messing around- he hosed the pelicans and scored Noël, and now has gained Saric and Embid.
Yeah injuries are a concern for their bigs and tanking is a gamble- but they could be the best front court duo in the NBA in 5 years and competing for championships as Lebron starts to hit serious decline.

We currently only have one player in the NBA 's top 100 players being Rondo- who we also risk losing next offseason. We've tried to get Love but we were beaten by the team with the top 3 draft picks.

Championships are won by franchise guys, and that first franchise guy on your team is usually acquired via the draft. Philly didn't have anything close to that first franchise guy, so they've decided to try and beat the system.
I would not be surprised if ET was traded soon enough a la Crawford.

Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2014, 08:53:41 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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The Evan Turner signing makes a lot more sense if you view him as a cheap short-term replacement for Green leaving.

Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2014, 09:05:30 AM »

Offline greece66

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The Evan Turner signing makes a lot more sense if you view him as a cheap short-term replacement for Green leaving.
Good point.

Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2014, 10:14:04 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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Hinkie is absolutely killing it. He got the best prospect in last year's draft (Noel), the best prospect in this year's draft by far (Embiid), he reamed the Magic trading down two spots for a first and a second round pick (!), and oh, he managed to snag KJ McDaniels in round two. MCW was also a great pick.
See my post from page 1 to know why Hinkie is NOT "killing it".  he's been lucky that the 2 players that are so highly prized fell into his lap

I would add that they lucked in to Noel and Embiid, both of which would have been gone by the time Philly picked if they were healthy.  In 2013, they'd likely end up with either Bennett or Len --> either is much less impressive than Noel as a prospect -- to pair with a mediocre PG in MCW who happened to win ROY in a weak rookie class.   in 2014, they likely get Parker, which was nothing to sneeze at.

but a haul of Len/MCW/Parker would change a number of perspectives on Philly's outlook for the future.   a longshot center prospect, a mediocre PG and a SF that can score but not defend looks a lot less impressive in terms of rebuilding.

Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2014, 10:16:40 AM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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To be fair, you can't assume that Philly would've executed the trade for the sixth pick if Noel weren't on the board.  They specifically targeted Noel -- and reportedly, they would've done the deal if either Bennett or Oladipo were still on the board.

The jury's still out on Bennett, but Oladipo looks to have a promising future.  And I'm not sure where you get the idea that they would've ended up drafting Parker, since it was pretty clear ahead of the draft that Milwaukee coveted Parker and was leaning towards drafting him.  Philly truly wanted Wiggins all along and likely would've been able to draft him had Embiid not slipped.  That would leave them with a core of MCW/Oladipo or Bennett/Wiggins.  That's not too terrible and probably better than what they currently have, due to the uncertainty surrounding the health of both Noel and Embiid.

And even if they ended up drafting Parker, that's still not too bad.  MCW/Oladipo/Parker and then a number of big men prospects projected as top picks in the 2015 draft?  Could've been really interesting.  Scoring and perimeter defense would've already been taken care of, so they would've had their pick of the litter as far as interior presence.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 10:23:42 AM by Endless Paradise »