Author Topic: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia  (Read 11463 times)

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Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« on: October 23, 2014, 01:31:25 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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The pro- tanking crowd speaks in great admiration of what Philly is doing pointing to embiid, Noel, MCW, Saric and the possibility of another top lottery pick after this coming season.

Here are a few things to consider - There are two big issues with drafting rookies that are out for the entire season.

1) You lose a year a of their services on a cheap contract and possibly part of a second as they regain their form. At most the 76ers would get 2.5 healthy years out of Noel before they A) Have to make a decision on extension after having very limited development time B) Risk losing him as a restricted free agent or paying him a max salary because of the exploding Salary cap. To a lesser extent these are concerns with Embiid

2) Will they be the same after injury? Big guys with injuries have a scarier history with injuries than guards. We don't need to go back very far to see this with Oden (the last franchise center drafted). Heck we could even argue, while not a star, Perkins Knee injury robbed him of his very limited lateral quickness changing him from a serviceable starting center to one of the worst bigs in the league by age 30.

In addition to these issues, it seems like Saric's will not play for them for two more years. We have seen guys in European contracts repeatedly postpone their appearance in the NBA (Rubio and Mirotic, who is making his debut in what would be his 4th season). Maybe Noel and Embiid are either busts or on their way out by then.

How impressed are people with MCW. It has been rumored the 76ers are already trying to trade him, and all of his statistics indicate empty stats on a poor team. Even if he is highly skilled, surrounding him with D-league talent and giving him the green light on a horrible team can start habits that can ruin his career (walker, antoine: see ml carr and Pitino)

Bottom line obviously all this stuff could work out for them, but rebuilding is very difficult in the NBA. For every team like OKC that successfully bottoms out there is a team like Sacramento or the Bulls pre-rose that stunk year after year despite seemingly unlimited high draft picks. You add into the equation removing any NBA veteran players and drafting injured players with more risks associated and it is an extremely large gamble. I personally don't see it working out and am Glad the celtics have not done this.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 02:08:26 PM by celticsclay »

Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2014, 01:34:42 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I agree with you, but there are people who believe that the best way to become good in the NBA as quickly as possible is to be as bad as possible first. If that was your opinion, wouldn't you be impressed by how quickly Philly dismantled a team that was one win away from the ECF?


(Obviously that team has a huge asterisk next to it because of the Derrick Rose injury)
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Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2014, 01:45:33 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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A lot of fans like heavily reactionary moves - radical solutions to typical problems.  A smaller version is the "bench/trade/waive Player X" any time they have a couple bad games.  This tends to go hand in hand with overvaluing potential results and undervaluing actual results. 

Combine that with ignoring any red flags, like Philly being so enamored with their ROY point guard that they've been trying to trade him all off-season, and you've got a perfect storm for a lot of people gushing over a terrible team that hasn't shown any ability to get better yet.

Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2014, 01:53:03 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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(Obviously that team has a huge asterisk next to it because of the Derrick Rose injury)
Took such an epic meltdown for Iggy to get the walk off fast break foul.

I really think the Bulls would have won that series anyways if they got G7 at home.

Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2014, 01:57:00 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Well, they have GREAT fans ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHaOj64sHds

At least they have SOMETHING to look forward to. It will be a LONG time before my man here gets to dance in the post-season in PHI like this, again.

BOS will definitely be back in the playoffs before they will. They can have their blatant tanking.

Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2014, 01:58:34 PM »

Online Donoghus

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The allure of potential.

The idea that what someone might be able to do holds more value that what is actually going on. 


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Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2014, 03:10:36 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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lots of good reasons posted.

I would add that they lucked in to Noel and Embiid, both of which would have been gone by the time Philly picked if they were healthy.  In 2013, they'd likely end up with either Bennett or Len --> either is much less impressive than Noel as a prospect -- to pair with a mediocre PG in MCW who happened to win ROY in a weak rookie class.   in 2014, they likely get Parker, which was nothing to sneeze at.

but a haul of Len/MCW/Parker would change a number of perspectives on Philly's outlook for the future.   a longshot center prospect, a mediocre PG and a SF that can score but not defend looks a lot less impressive in terms of rebuilding.

Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2014, 03:11:25 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Well, they have GREAT fans ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHaOj64sHds

At least they have SOMETHING to look forward to. It will be a LONG time before my man here gets to dance in the post-season in PHI like this, again.

BOS will definitely be back in the playoffs before they will. They can have their blatant tanking.
anyone with that body has a lot of GUTS to do that :D

Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2014, 03:59:06 PM »

Offline Sketch5

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One thing is they have drafted 3 bigs the last two seasons and have a PG that may or may not be as good as his ROY trophy says he is. Two of the bigs have had some serious injury issues that could kill a big mans career. And the other wont see an NBA court in 2 years. This has all been pointed out.

The big issue is they have drafted 3 bigs, heading into a season to tank again for a draft that is heavy in bigs. Five out of the first ten picks projected are bigs. Thats poor planning. They could have went with Exum or Gordon. Exum if pans out could be a nice combo guard, making MCW expendable and move him later. Gordon if pans out might be able to play the 3 or 4 if he gets some muscle on that frame. Tank hard this year and get a big that may be healthy in next years draft that could be as good as Embiid.

But now they might have 2 Bigs with injury issues, one over seas, and after next years draft an other. What are they going to do with them all? Even if they want to move them, how many teams are going to pay full price or even over pay when they know Philly will need to dump two of them with fear of them leaving at the end of their contracts.

DA has gotten two PF's that also can play the center position in the right set up. A wing in case Bradley can't stay on the floor, or a team wants him in part of a trade. And a bulldog of a PG incase Rondo bolts or can't play in Stevens system and is an upgrade over Pressy. While the players aren't as sexy as Philly's, I really like these pics.

Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2014, 03:59:33 PM »

Offline Fred Roberts

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I think people are impressed because Philly is tanking with total disregard for the spirit of the rules, and tanking hard.

They did great getting Noel & Saric for Jrue. They did well in nabbing Embiid. All 3 are very high ceiling prospects. MCW is meh, but for a bad draft he was a good pick (ROY) and projects as a solid player going forward.

I question their moves to fully gut the rest of the roster, giving away the likes of Evan Turner, Thaddeus Young, Hawes, etc. But after that Iggy for Bynum trade exploded in their face, it really was time to burn the house to the ground and start a completely new foundation from scratch.

Just remember, big men are the toughest guys to find in the NBA. Good ones are a rare breed. Embiid and Noel could both become serious players. That's a major asset to have and a great thing to build a franchise around.

I'd never have traded Noel and a 1st rounder for Jrue. Pluh-eeeeze!!

After this next lotto in 2015 they can start going for wins. They may get Karl Towns or another big and be able to make some trades.

Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2014, 05:46:40 PM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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I agree with you, but there are people who believe that the best way to become good in the NBA as quickly as possible is to be as bad as possible first. If that was your opinion, wouldn't you be impressed by how quickly Philly dismantled a team that was one win away from the ECF?


(Obviously that team has a huge asterisk next to it because of the Derrick Rose injury)

anyone who thinks being in the lottery for 3 straight yrs. is getting good as quick as possible they're mistaken. that's the long way, if they plan on growing with those players. if a team can trade those picks for great players ready to win now? then that's a way of "getting good quick".

I wouldn't classify myself as a "pro-tanker". I do however believe in being bad at the right time like the Spurs.


Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2014, 05:51:30 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I think people are impressed because Philly is tanking with total disregard for the spirit of the rules, and tanking hard.

They did great getting Noel & Saric for Jrue. They did well in nabbing Embiid. All 3 are very high ceiling prospects. MCW is meh, but for a bad draft he was a good pick (ROY) and projects as a solid player going forward.

I question their moves to fully gut the rest of the roster, giving away the likes of Evan Turner, Thaddeus Young, Hawes, etc. But after that Iggy for Bynum trade exploded in their face, it really was time to burn the house to the ground and start a completely new foundation from scratch.

Just remember, big men are the toughest guys to find in the NBA. Good ones are a rare breed. Embiid and Noel could both become serious players. That's a major asset to have and a great thing to build a franchise around.

I'd never have traded Noel and a 1st rounder for Jrue. Pluh-eeeeze!!

After this next lotto in 2015 they can start going for wins. They may get Karl Towns or another big and be able to make some trades.

I particularly question the wisdom of giving away thaddeus young. He is still young, still developing and the consummate professional. Having no veterans on your roster and playing with a bunch of d-leaguers is uncharted waters in terms of how it impacts a player's development. I was looking back at Durant's first year because that was a team that was pretty torn down, but they at least had some guys that had reasonable nba careers around in Kurt Thomas, Donyell Marshall, Luke Ridnour and Adrian Griffin. I know those guys are far from hall of famers but they were veterans that carved out 10 year careers in the league. By comparison,  the 76ers have 2 players over 24 on their team and the only one that has ever been a consistent starter (Richardson hasn't really played in a year and a half). Maybe this is an old fashioned view, but who is going to teach these guys how to play in the league? Who is going to even keep them in line on an NBA road trip. It really seems like a recipe for disaster!

Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2014, 06:15:28 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2014, 06:29:36 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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I agree with you, but there are people who believe that the best way to become good in the NBA as quickly as possible is to be as bad as possible first. If that was your opinion, wouldn't you be impressed by how quickly Philly dismantled a team that was one win away from the ECF?


(Obviously that team has a huge asterisk next to it because of the Derrick Rose injury)

anyone who thinks being in the lottery for 3 straight yrs. is getting good as quick as possible they're mistaken. that's the long way, if they plan on growing with those players. if a team can trade those picks for great players ready to win now? then that's a way of "getting good quick".

I wouldn't classify myself as a "pro-tanker". I do however believe in being bad at the right time like the Spurs.

Yeah, obviously the Spurs are the special case of, "fake bad".   They were a consistent 55-60+ win team for most of the prior seasons before that fateful year when Robinson got injured.   They still maintained most of the key parts of the strong roster going into the following year.  So once they were all healthy, Duncan was basically joining an already pretty buff roster.

That's pretty much the only proven formula for taking a top draft pick and then running to the title.  The other case where a top 5 pick won a title with his drafting team was DWade - where in that case Riley bought/traded for a ton of talented and experienced veterans to surround his star rookie with (Shaq, The Glove, Mourning, Antoine, etc.).

What Philly is doing is different.  They ostensibly are following the OKC model which has (after several years of sucking and high draft picks) resulted in several deep playoff runs, one finals appearance and as yet no title.

My preferred model is what Red would do (and Danny seems to be trying to do):  Acquire other team's picks and hope one of them ends up sucking their way to a top pick FOR you.   Man, if Bias had only NOT gone to celebrate that fateful night... digress.  The point is, ideally, you focus your own team on just winning.  Let other teams suck their way into good picks that you own.  Heck, it helps if your team beats them in those situations.
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Re: Why are people impressed by Philadelphia
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2014, 06:35:04 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

I thought the joke was that the grass is always greener over the septic tank ;D