Author Topic: Kevin Love says he needs more touches in the paint to return to form  (Read 5375 times)

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Re: Kevin Love says he needs more touches in the paint to return to form
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2014, 01:27:12 PM »

Offline MBunge

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Hello, rookie coach.

As a long time fan of David Blatt - I can tell you he is more than capable of handling Love and his issues.

Also, Lebron (as much as I hate to say this) is very unselfish and will have no problem giving up shots to get the wins. As good as he is scoring, he likes to dish even more.

And yet, a 20-point-a-game guy like Chris Bosh was reduced to an afterthought when he played with LeBron, especially in the playoffs.  Maybe Blatt's international background will immunize him from the "superstar and supporting cast" mindset.

If the Cavs can actually figure out a way to play with Kyrie and Love taking the lead on offense, they could be what Miami was supposed to be.

Mike

Re: Kevin Love says he needs more touches in the paint to return to form
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2014, 01:27:55 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I think they will be fine but they are far from a perfect team.   I didn't Love because he is horrible defender and I think the Cavs will find that out.   Waiters is not a good defender either nor is Irving.   Offensively, they should be lights out.

Re: Kevin Love says he needs more touches in the paint to return to form
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2014, 01:36:10 PM »

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I really don't think the Cavs will win the East this year..Chicago is the favorites I think..and don't count out the Heat if they can stay healthy

Is this some sort of way of saying losing Lebron will make them better? They replaced Lebron with Deng who has kind of stabilized as a plus starter, but not really an all star in his career. They also lost Ray Allen and Battier, who while clearly in decline, did play significant roles with them. Signing McRoberts and Granger (who couldn't get off the bench last season) at best offsets those losses. You then have another year added to Wade's collapsing knees that only made it through 60 games last season despite letting Lebron shoulder the load. How in the world do they not drop back?

Re: Kevin Love says he needs more touches in the paint to return to form
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2014, 01:50:01 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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I really don't think the Cavs will win the East this year..Chicago is the favorites I think..and don't count out the Heat if they can stay healthy

Is this some sort of way of saying losing Lebron will make them better? They replaced Lebron with Deng who has kind of stabilized as a plus starter, but not really an all star in his career. They also lost Ray Allen and Battier, who while clearly in decline, did play significant roles with them. Signing McRoberts and Granger (who couldn't get off the bench last season) at best offsets those losses. You then have another year added to Wade's collapsing knees that only made it through 60 games last season despite letting Lebron shoulder the load. How in the world do they not drop back?

It's amazing how people are really underrating the Heat. Yes Wade is older, yes they downgraded from Lebron to Deng, but its not like Deng is a shmuck off the street. He averaged 16 and 6 last year and is a stellar defender and stellar team player. They may have lost Lebron but people forget how well Bosh played when he was the leader of his team. He's a guy who before coming to the Heat was a 24 and 11 guy while playing above average defense. I don't expect him to replicate those numbers but with a larger role and being the focal point of the Heat I also expect him to improve upon his 16 and 7 of last year even though his PER was still 19+.

Sure Wade is another year older but he is only 32 and he's coming off a season where he averaged 19, 5 and 5 shooting 55% and netting a PER of 22. If you round his 4.6's and 4.7's up he has averaged 20+ points 5 rebounds and 5 assists every year of his career except his rookie season, 08 where he averaged 4.2 rebounds, and last year when he missed 20 ppg. His game has slowed and he'll always be an injury risk but being the second banana to Lebron he still averaged 20, 5 and 5 consistently. It's like people think Wade has fallen off the face of the earth when he is still capable of putting up good numbers and proves it by doing it.

A Bosh, Wade, Deng trio might not be number one in the east but there is no reason to think they won't be fighting for home court advantage come playoff time. And with their playoff experience they could easily be a ECF contender.

Re: Kevin Love says he needs more touches in the paint to return to form
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2014, 01:50:52 PM »

Offline ballin

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Hello, rookie coach.

As a long time fan of David Blatt - I can tell you he is more than capable of handling Love and his issues.

Also, Lebron (as much as I hate to say this) is very unselfish and will have no problem giving up shots to get the wins. As good as he is scoring, he likes to dish even more.

I'm sure Blatt is a great coach, but the thing about rookie coaches is that they don't want to step on anybody's toes. They realize they need to earn the respect of the players before they can be hard on them. For example, Popovich didn't come into the league yelling at his superstars - that had to be earned.

The issue is when you're a rookie coach and you're thrown into an interesting situation like the one brewing in Cleveland. They need somebody to take the reins, and it's probably gonna have to be Lebron because it aint gonna be Blatt.

Re: Kevin Love says he needs more touches in the paint to return to form
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2014, 02:03:57 PM »

Offline MBunge

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Sure Wade is another year older but he is only 32 and he's coming off a season where he averaged 19, 5 and 5 shooting 55% and netting a PER of 22. If you round his 4.6's and 4.7's up he has averaged 20+ points 5 rebounds and 5 assists every year of his career except his rookie season, 08 where he averaged 4.2 rebounds, and last year when he missed 20 ppg. His game has slowed and he'll always be an injury risk but being the second banana to Lebron he still averaged 20, 5 and 5 consistently. It's like people think Wade has fallen off the face of the earth when he is still capable of putting up good numbers and proves it by doing it.

A Bosh, Wade, Deng trio might not be number one in the east but there is no reason to think they won't be fighting for home court advantage come playoff time. And with their playoff experience they could easily be a ECF contender.

Wade played 49, 69 and 54 games the last 3 seasons, averaging 3 to 5 minutes less than he usually had before that, and he STILL looked physically shot at times over the last two years.  That, and the fact that they lost their team leader in points, rebounds, assists and steals, is why folks doubt the heat.

Mike

Re: Kevin Love says he needs more touches in the paint to return to form
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2014, 02:10:42 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Yeah I'm not sure any team could survive losing the best player in the league, but Miami's going to have to adjust themselves to be based around Bosh fairly quickly if they want to even aim for the top half of the playoff seeding.
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Re: Kevin Love says he needs more touches in the paint to return to form
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2014, 02:13:04 PM »

Online Donoghus

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I really don't think the Cavs will win the East this year..Chicago is the favorites I think..and don't count out the Heat if they can stay healthy

Is this some sort of way of saying losing Lebron will make them better? They replaced Lebron with Deng who has kind of stabilized as a plus starter, but not really an all star in his career. They also lost Ray Allen and Battier, who while clearly in decline, did play significant roles with them. Signing McRoberts and Granger (who couldn't get off the bench last season) at best offsets those losses. You then have another year added to Wade's collapsing knees that only made it through 60 games last season despite letting Lebron shoulder the load. How in the world do they not drop back?

It's amazing how people are really underrating the Heat. Yes Wade is older, yes they downgraded from Lebron to Deng, but its not like Deng is a shmuck off the street. He averaged 16 and 6 last year and is a stellar defender and stellar team player. They may have lost Lebron but people forget how well Bosh played when he was the leader of his team. He's a guy who before coming to the Heat was a 24 and 11 guy while playing above average defense. I don't expect him to replicate those numbers but with a larger role and being the focal point of the Heat I also expect him to improve upon his 16 and 7 of last year even though his PER was still 19+.

Sure Wade is another year older but he is only 32 and he's coming off a season where he averaged 19, 5 and 5 shooting 55% and netting a PER of 22. If you round his 4.6's and 4.7's up he has averaged 20+ points 5 rebounds and 5 assists every year of his career except his rookie season, 08 where he averaged 4.2 rebounds, and last year when he missed 20 ppg. His game has slowed and he'll always be an injury risk but being the second banana to Lebron he still averaged 20, 5 and 5 consistently. It's like people think Wade has fallen off the face of the earth when he is still capable of putting up good numbers and proves it by doing it.

A Bosh, Wade, Deng trio might not be number one in the east but there is no reason to think they won't be fighting for home court advantage come playoff time. And with their playoff experience they could easily be a ECF contender.

I see them as a team that will coast during the regular (much like our C's in the earlier part of the decade) with the sole intention of being ready for the playoffs.  Probably end up without homecourt in the first round but will be an absolute pain in the butt to whoever they play in the first round.  Like a 3-6 or 4-5 matchup.  I have 3-7 in the East as interchangeable at the moment. I just don't think MIA will put much stock or effort into the regular season other than regulate minutes and give the old guys rest. 


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Re: Kevin Love says he needs more touches in the paint to return to form
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2014, 02:21:33 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I really don't think the Cavs will win the East this year..Chicago is the favorites I think..and don't count out the Heat if they can stay healthy

Is this some sort of way of saying losing Lebron will make them better? They replaced Lebron with Deng who has kind of stabilized as a plus starter, but not really an all star in his career. They also lost Ray Allen and Battier, who while clearly in decline, did play significant roles with them. Signing McRoberts and Granger (who couldn't get off the bench last season) at best offsets those losses. You then have another year added to Wade's collapsing knees that only made it through 60 games last season despite letting Lebron shoulder the load. How in the world do they not drop back?

It's amazing how people are really underrating the Heat. Yes Wade is older, yes they downgraded from Lebron to Deng, but its not like Deng is a shmuck off the street. He averaged 16 and 6 last year and is a stellar defender and stellar team player. They may have lost Lebron but people forget how well Bosh played when he was the leader of his team. He's a guy who before coming to the Heat was a 24 and 11 guy while playing above average defense. I don't expect him to replicate those numbers but with a larger role and being the focal point of the Heat I also expect him to improve upon his 16 and 7 of last year even though his PER was still 19+.

Sure Wade is another year older but he is only 32 and he's coming off a season where he averaged 19, 5 and 5 shooting 55% and netting a PER of 22. If you round his 4.6's and 4.7's up he has averaged 20+ points 5 rebounds and 5 assists every year of his career except his rookie season, 08 where he averaged 4.2 rebounds, and last year when he missed 20 ppg. His game has slowed and he'll always be an injury risk but being the second banana to Lebron he still averaged 20, 5 and 5 consistently. It's like people think Wade has fallen off the face of the earth when he is still capable of putting up good numbers and proves it by doing it.

A Bosh, Wade, Deng trio might not be number one in the east but there is no reason to think they won't be fighting for home court advantage come playoff time. And with their playoff experience they could easily be a ECF contender.

I see them as a team that will coast during the regular (much like our C's in the earlier part of the decade) with the sole intention of being ready for the playoffs.  Probably end up without homecourt in the first round but will be an absolute pain in the butt to whoever they play in the first round.  Like a 3-6 or 4-5 matchup.  I have 3-7 in the East as interchangeable at the moment. I just don't think MIA will put much stock or effort into the regular season other than regulate minutes and give the old guys rest.
Riley did a really nice job salvaging that situation.  Bosh is still an impact player.  Healthy Wade is dangerous.  Deng was a solid addition.  That team can still be good.  Probably better than the Pre-LeBron Heat, right?

Re: Kevin Love says he needs more touches in the paint to return to form
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2014, 02:23:46 PM »

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Sure Wade is another year older but he is only 32 and he's coming off a season where he averaged 19, 5 and 5 shooting 55% and netting a PER of 22. If you round his 4.6's and 4.7's up he has averaged 20+ points 5 rebounds and 5 assists every year of his career except his rookie season, 08 where he averaged 4.2 rebounds, and last year when he missed 20 ppg. His game has slowed and he'll always be an injury risk but being the second banana to Lebron he still averaged 20, 5 and 5 consistently. It's like people think Wade has fallen off the face of the earth when he is still capable of putting up good numbers and proves it by doing it.

A Bosh, Wade, Deng trio might not be number one in the east but there is no reason to think they won't be fighting for home court advantage come playoff time. And with their playoff experience they could easily be a ECF contender.

Wade played 49, 69 and 54 games the last 3 seasons, averaging 3 to 5 minutes less than he usually had before that, and he STILL looked physically shot at times over the last two years.  That, and the fact that they lost their team leader in points, rebounds, assists and steals, is why folks doubt the heat.

Mike

Yea also "only 32" , for players with a history of injuries that are missing 15-30 games a year 32 can be a lot closer to role player than people would think. If you look at the recent history of all nba guards (last ten seasons) a lot of them really fell off a cliff around 30-32, particularly ones with injury histories. In the first group you will notice players that never really had any injuries until very late in their career (eg nash and kobe were injured at 38). The second group were players that had nagging or serious injuries, and sadly many of them knee injuries like Wade. Which group does it seem like he is going to end up in? That 4 year contract could be horrible for them.

Recent all NBA guards that aged really well  from last 8 seasons(effective past 32)

Kobe
Nash
Chauncey Billups
Ray Allen
Kidd
 
Burnt out of the league
Tmac (last all star level season 29)
Iverson (Last all star level season 33)
Arenas (Only 32 now!)
Brandon Roy (obviously severe injuries)
Baron Davis (last all star level season 28)
Steve Francis
Michael Redd (Last all star level season 29)

Too early to tell:
Deron Williams (certainly seems like on the back night at age 30)
Chris Paul (aged 29 no sign of slowing down)


Re: Kevin Love says he needs more touches in the paint to return to form
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2014, 02:25:41 PM »

Online Donoghus

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I really don't think the Cavs will win the East this year..Chicago is the favorites I think..and don't count out the Heat if they can stay healthy

Is this some sort of way of saying losing Lebron will make them better? They replaced Lebron with Deng who has kind of stabilized as a plus starter, but not really an all star in his career. They also lost Ray Allen and Battier, who while clearly in decline, did play significant roles with them. Signing McRoberts and Granger (who couldn't get off the bench last season) at best offsets those losses. You then have another year added to Wade's collapsing knees that only made it through 60 games last season despite letting Lebron shoulder the load. How in the world do they not drop back?

It's amazing how people are really underrating the Heat. Yes Wade is older, yes they downgraded from Lebron to Deng, but its not like Deng is a shmuck off the street. He averaged 16 and 6 last year and is a stellar defender and stellar team player. They may have lost Lebron but people forget how well Bosh played when he was the leader of his team. He's a guy who before coming to the Heat was a 24 and 11 guy while playing above average defense. I don't expect him to replicate those numbers but with a larger role and being the focal point of the Heat I also expect him to improve upon his 16 and 7 of last year even though his PER was still 19+.

Sure Wade is another year older but he is only 32 and he's coming off a season where he averaged 19, 5 and 5 shooting 55% and netting a PER of 22. If you round his 4.6's and 4.7's up he has averaged 20+ points 5 rebounds and 5 assists every year of his career except his rookie season, 08 where he averaged 4.2 rebounds, and last year when he missed 20 ppg. His game has slowed and he'll always be an injury risk but being the second banana to Lebron he still averaged 20, 5 and 5 consistently. It's like people think Wade has fallen off the face of the earth when he is still capable of putting up good numbers and proves it by doing it.

A Bosh, Wade, Deng trio might not be number one in the east but there is no reason to think they won't be fighting for home court advantage come playoff time. And with their playoff experience they could easily be a ECF contender.

I see them as a team that will coast during the regular (much like our C's in the earlier part of the decade) with the sole intention of being ready for the playoffs.  Probably end up without homecourt in the first round but will be an absolute pain in the butt to whoever they play in the first round.  Like a 3-6 or 4-5 matchup.  I have 3-7 in the East as interchangeable at the moment. I just don't think MIA will put much stock or effort into the regular season other than regulate minutes and give the old guys rest.
Riley did a really nice job salvaging that situation.  Bosh is still an impact player.  Healthy Wade is dangerous.  Deng was a solid addition.  That team can still be good.  Probably better than the Pre-LeBron Heat, right?

Yeah, I'd say they're better than '09-10.  I just looked at that roster.  They won 47 games.  That's more than I thought they did.   Wade, Anthony (with a pulse), Haslem, Beasley, Q, James Jones, the corpse of Jamaal Magloire, Chalmers....

And they still won 47.  Wow.


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Re: Kevin Love says he needs more touches in the paint to return to form
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2014, 02:34:00 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Sure Wade is another year older but he is only 32 and he's coming off a season where he averaged 19, 5 and 5 shooting 55% and netting a PER of 22. If you round his 4.6's and 4.7's up he has averaged 20+ points 5 rebounds and 5 assists every year of his career except his rookie season, 08 where he averaged 4.2 rebounds, and last year when he missed 20 ppg. His game has slowed and he'll always be an injury risk but being the second banana to Lebron he still averaged 20, 5 and 5 consistently. It's like people think Wade has fallen off the face of the earth when he is still capable of putting up good numbers and proves it by doing it.

A Bosh, Wade, Deng trio might not be number one in the east but there is no reason to think they won't be fighting for home court advantage come playoff time. And with their playoff experience they could easily be a ECF contender.

Wade played 49, 69 and 54 games the last 3 seasons, averaging 3 to 5 minutes less than he usually had before that, and he STILL looked physically shot at times over the last two years.  That, and the fact that they lost their team leader in points, rebounds, assists and steals, is why folks doubt the heat.

Mike

Yea also "only 32" , for players with a history of injuries that are missing 15-30 games a year 32 can be a lot closer to role player than people would think. If you look at the recent history of all nba guards (last ten seasons) a lot of them really fell off a cliff around 30-32, particularly ones with injury histories. In the first group you will notice players that never really had any injuries until very late in their career (eg nash and kobe were injured at 38). The second group were players that had nagging or serious injuries, and sadly many of them knee injuries like Wade. Which group does it seem like he is going to end up in? That 4 year contract could be horrible for them.

Recent all NBA guards that aged really well  from last 8 seasons(effective past 32)

Kobe
Nash
Chauncey Billups
Ray Allen
Kidd
 
Burnt out of the league
Tmac (last all star level season 29)
Iverson (Last all star level season 33)
Arenas (Only 32 now!)
Brandon Roy (obviously severe injuries)
Baron Davis (last all star level season 28)
Steve Francis
Michael Redd (Last all star level season 29)


Too early to tell:
Deron Williams (certainly seems like on the back night at age 30)
Chris Paul (aged 29 no sign of slowing down)

1. Kobe Bryant is currently only 36.

2. As you mention these guys all had serious injuries that derailed them from being able to play the game. I don't think its fair to say their games fell off a cliff due to age as opposed to not being able to perform due to injuries. I'm sure plenty of healthy guards continued to have success past the age of 30-32.

Re: Kevin Love says he needs more touches in the paint to return to form
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2014, 02:37:52 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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I really don't think the Cavs will win the East this year..Chicago is the favorites I think..and don't count out the Heat if they can stay healthy

Is this some sort of way of saying losing Lebron will make them better? They replaced Lebron with Deng who has kind of stabilized as a plus starter, but not really an all star in his career. They also lost Ray Allen and Battier, who while clearly in decline, did play significant roles with them. Signing McRoberts and Granger (who couldn't get off the bench last season) at best offsets those losses. You then have another year added to Wade's collapsing knees that only made it through 60 games last season despite letting Lebron shoulder the load. How in the world do they not drop back?

It's amazing how people are really underrating the Heat. Yes Wade is older, yes they downgraded from Lebron to Deng, but its not like Deng is a shmuck off the street. He averaged 16 and 6 last year and is a stellar defender and stellar team player. They may have lost Lebron but people forget how well Bosh played when he was the leader of his team. He's a guy who before coming to the Heat was a 24 and 11 guy while playing above average defense. I don't expect him to replicate those numbers but with a larger role and being the focal point of the Heat I also expect him to improve upon his 16 and 7 of last year even though his PER was still 19+.

Sure Wade is another year older but he is only 32 and he's coming off a season where he averaged 19, 5 and 5 shooting 55% and netting a PER of 22. If you round his 4.6's and 4.7's up he has averaged 20+ points 5 rebounds and 5 assists every year of his career except his rookie season, 08 where he averaged 4.2 rebounds, and last year when he missed 20 ppg. His game has slowed and he'll always be an injury risk but being the second banana to Lebron he still averaged 20, 5 and 5 consistently. It's like people think Wade has fallen off the face of the earth when he is still capable of putting up good numbers and proves it by doing it.

A Bosh, Wade, Deng trio might not be number one in the east but there is no reason to think they won't be fighting for home court advantage come playoff time. And with their playoff experience they could easily be a ECF contender.

I see them as a team that will coast during the regular (much like our C's in the earlier part of the decade) with the sole intention of being ready for the playoffs.  Probably end up without homecourt in the first round but will be an absolute pain in the butt to whoever they play in the first round.  Like a 3-6 or 4-5 matchup.  I have 3-7 in the East as interchangeable at the moment. I just don't think MIA will put much stock or effort into the regular season other than regulate minutes and give the old guys rest.
Riley did a really nice job salvaging that situation.  Bosh is still an impact player.  Healthy Wade is dangerous.  Deng was a solid addition.  That team can still be good.  Probably better than the Pre-LeBron Heat, right?

Yeah, I'd say they're better than '09-10.  I just looked at that roster.  They won 47 games.  That's more than I thought they did.   Wade, Anthony (with a pulse), Haslem, Beasley, Q, James Jones, the corpse of Jamaal Magloire, Chalmers....

And they still won 47.  Wow.

This is kind of what I was getting at here. Of course losing LeBron is a huge hit to the Heat. Obviously when you lose the games best player you aren't going to get better. But they still have Wade and Bosh as legit super stars and Deng as their third option. They are surrounded by veterans who just want to win and more importantly know how to win. That trio is still better than a lot of what the East has and without Lebron to defer to those guys should have pretty great seasons (barring injury).

I see them not really caring about their playoff seeding either, but they'll still be in contention for the 4th seed with this line up and then be a complete nuisance come playoff time.

If that Heat team can win 47 games with just Wade. You add the presence of Bosh and Deng and there's no reason why they can't improve upon 47 wins.

Re: Kevin Love says he needs more touches in the paint to return to form
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2014, 03:00:05 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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and we are already seeing that he is less effective as Lebron/Kyrie are the top 2 options and Love is relegated to the 3rd option.

Lol i think this was always pretty obvious.  At least it was to me!

Love scored a lot because he chucked a billion shots a day.  He was never really an efficient, high percentage scorer. 

Re: Kevin Love says he needs more touches in the paint to return to form
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2014, 03:25:07 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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Yeah, I'd say they're better than '09-10.  I just looked at that roster.  They won 47 games.  That's more than I thought they did.   Wade, Anthony (with a pulse), Haslem, Beasley, Q, James Jones, the corpse of Jamaal Magloire, Chalmers....

And they still won 47.  Wow.

To be fair, that was with a Wade who was coming off an MVP-caliber season the year before.