Author Topic: Sullinger 2014-2015 Statistics  (Read 11766 times)

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Re: Sullinger 2014-2015 Statistics
« Reply #75 on: October 24, 2014, 02:11:11 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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You made a mistake based on second hand information posted by somebody else.  I corrected you.  You got in a tizzy about it.

And I'm the sensitive one?
No he didn't. Hptanzo suggested the line that D.O.S. examined. If you're going to accuse people of factual incorrectness you should be sure of your own point. Hptanzo isn't "nobody", nor did he suggest 18-12 it was 18-12-3 see below. D.O.S search does show that 8 players have achieved that based on his BBallRef search.

I'm going with 18 points, 12 rebounds, 3 assists. Points may be an overestimate, but the way he's rebounding, I think 12 a game is spot on, 10 is an underestimate.

Will he be an all-star? No, our team will still suck and there are too many PFs with more fan appeal and more established amongst coaches.


Since "1980" is missing from that. If you go further back you'll find a plethora of players who did do it. Not sure at the level of relevance though.

The funny thing though is that most players I saw on the link provided were players who scored 20+ points. So not only did they reach the stat line, but obliterated it from a points per game stand point. The suggestion of Sully getting there would put him on the floor of points per game against those and with some appreciated margin.

The funny thing is that the biggest contention to those stats are focused on rebounding and points, you remove the assists from the equation and you'll see a lot more players that reached the 18-12 level.

I do think that it'll be hard to get there, but it isn't an absurd goal for a player like Sullinger, particularly when you consider that the player he's most compared to from a skills standpoint is Kevin Love who is featured in that list.

Sullinger is a talented player, whether he makes it or not will be a combination of executing and playing time, but from a skill level standpoint it's certainly an attainable goal as "rare" as it is.

Re: Sullinger 2014-2015 Statistics
« Reply #76 on: October 24, 2014, 02:11:27 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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You made a mistake based on second hand information posted by somebody else.  I corrected you.  You got in a tizzy about it.

And I'm the sensitive one?
No he didn't. Hptanzo suggested the line that D.O.S. examined. If you're going to accuse people of factual incorrectness you should be sure of your own point. Hptanzo isn't "nobody", nor did he suggest 18-12 it was 18-12-3 see below. D.O.S search does show that 8 players have achieved that based on his BBallRef search.

I'm going with 18 points, 12 rebounds, 3 assists. Points may be an overestimate, but the way he's rebounding, I think 12 a game is spot on, 10 is an underestimate.

Will he be an all-star? No, our team will still suck and there are too many PFs with more fan appeal and more established amongst coaches.

A bit of clarification: that BasketRef search only went back to the three point era, since I figured anything piror to that wouldn't be fair to Sullinger's game, which seems to be based at least in some part on scoring the three ball.

Also worth noting: Taking the assists out of the equation completely changes the point of the line, IMO, since then you're basically going off of the assumption that Sullinger could be roughly a 20-10 guy. Those are good numbers, to be sure, but it's the difference between being a Shaq or a Chris Webber and being a David Lee.
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Re: Sullinger 2014-2015 Statistics
« Reply #77 on: October 24, 2014, 02:18:26 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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You made a mistake based on second hand information posted by somebody else.  I corrected you.  You got in a tizzy about it.

And I'm the sensitive one?
No he didn't. Hptanzo suggested the line that D.O.S. examined. If you're going to accuse people of factual incorrectness you should be sure of your own point. Hptanzo isn't "nobody", nor did he suggest 18-12 it was 18-12-3 see below. D.O.S search does show that 8 players have achieved that based on his BBallRef search.

I'm going with 18 points, 12 rebounds, 3 assists. Points may be an overestimate, but the way he's rebounding, I think 12 a game is spot on, 10 is an underestimate.

Will he be an all-star? No, our team will still suck and there are too many PFs with more fan appeal and more established amongst coaches.

A bit of clarification: that BasketRef search only went back to the three point era, since I figured anything piror to that wouldn't be fair to Sullinger's game, which seems to be based at least in some part on scoring the three ball.

Also worth noting: Taking the assists out of the equation completely changes the point of the line, IMO, since then you're basically going off of the assumption that Sullinger could be roughly a 20-10 guy. Those are good numbers, to be sure, but it's the difference between being a Shaq or a Chris Webber and being a David Lee.

Thanks for the clarification.  I was focused more on the rarity of the stat line accomplishment rather than the date range.  Just assumed it was history.  Still, we're talking almost half the history of the NBA and the more recent aspect of the game.

And thanks to Faf for correctly understanding and interpreting my comments.  I might be too sensitive here by saying thank you, though.   ;)


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Re: Sullinger 2014-2015 Statistics
« Reply #78 on: October 24, 2014, 02:37:41 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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You just need to grow a thicker skin when it comes to pointing out things that are true on the internet, obviously.  ;D
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Re: Sullinger 2014-2015 Statistics
« Reply #79 on: October 25, 2014, 04:03:08 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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You made a mistake based on second hand information posted by somebody else.  I corrected you.  You got in a tizzy about it.

And I'm the sensitive one?
No he didn't. Hptanzo suggested the line that D.O.S. examined. If you're going to accuse people of factual incorrectness you should be sure of your own point. Hptanzo isn't "nobody", nor did he suggest 18-12 it was 18-12-3 see below. D.O.S search does show that 8 players have achieved that based on his BBallRef search.

I'm going with 18 points, 12 rebounds, 3 assists. Points may be an overestimate, but the way he's rebounding, I think 12 a game is spot on, 10 is an underestimate.

Will he be an all-star? No, our team will still suck and there are too many PFs with more fan appeal and more established amongst coaches.

24 players going back to 1971 have had a season of at least 18, 12, and 3.   That's not something like eight.  I saw the link to basketball reference that D.o.s. posted, and it definitely did not include all NBA players of all time who have accomplished that feat.

Sorry, that's a fact.  It's also a fact that my initial search was only for players who put up 18 and 12, omitting the 3.  That was my mistake.

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Re: Sullinger 2014-2015 Statistics
« Reply #80 on: October 25, 2014, 04:20:50 AM »

Offline LatterDayCelticsfan

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I'm surprised there have not been so many predictions/projections on Sully's foul rate.
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Re: Sullinger 2014-2015 Statistics
« Reply #81 on: October 25, 2014, 09:13:43 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
I'm surprised there have not been so many predictions/projections on Sully's foul rate.

Key Element to boosting his projected stats, the reality will be somewhat different, though I am hoping that a year of experience, the refs will go easier on him.

Re: Sullinger 2014-2015 Statistics
« Reply #82 on: October 25, 2014, 09:34:57 AM »

Offline BballTim

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You made a mistake based on second hand information posted by somebody else.  I corrected you.  You got in a tizzy about it.

And I'm the sensitive one?
No he didn't. Hptanzo suggested the line that D.O.S. examined. If you're going to accuse people of factual incorrectness you should be sure of your own point. Hptanzo isn't "nobody", nor did he suggest 18-12 it was 18-12-3 see below. D.O.S search does show that 8 players have achieved that based on his BBallRef search.

I'm going with 18 points, 12 rebounds, 3 assists. Points may be an overestimate, but the way he's rebounding, I think 12 a game is spot on, 10 is an underestimate.

Will he be an all-star? No, our team will still suck and there are too many PFs with more fan appeal and more established amongst coaches.

A bit of clarification: that BasketRef search only went back to the three point era, since I figured anything piror to that wouldn't be fair to Sullinger's game, which seems to be based at least in some part on scoring the three ball.

Also worth noting: Taking the assists out of the equation completely changes the point of the line, IMO, since then you're basically going off of the assumption that Sullinger could be roughly a 20-10 guy. Those are good numbers, to be sure, but it's the difference between being a Shaq or a Chris Webber and being a David Lee.

Thanks for the clarification.  I was focused more on the rarity of the stat line accomplishment rather than the date range.  Just assumed it was history.  Still, we're talking almost half the history of the NBA and the more recent aspect of the game.


  No offense to D.o.s., who certainly isn't the first of the posters here to make the type of post that he did, but I really don't like the "only X players in nba history have..." posts. They're extremely picky and frequently lack context. 11 players have averaged at least 18/12/3 since 1980, and they've done it a total of 35 times. That's true. But those numbers triple if you look at 17+ points, 11+ rebounds and 2+ assists, and they come close to doubling again if you go down to 10+ rebounds. That's nowhere near as rare, and if Sully averaged (for instance) 17.4/10.7/2.5 you'd be hard pressed to say that 18/12/3 was an outlandish prediction.

Re: Sullinger 2014-2015 Statistics
« Reply #83 on: October 25, 2014, 04:07:52 PM »

Offline mbsnmisc

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I'm going with 18 points, 12 rebounds, 3 assists. Points may be an overestimate, but the way he's rebounding, I think 12 a game is spot on, 10 is an underestimate.

Will he be an all-star? No, our team will still suck and there are too many PFs with more fan appeal and more established amongst coaches.

If Sully averages 18, 12, and 3, it seems to me that there's a fairly good chance that our team won't suck.

We'd have one of the top point guards in the league, one of the top power forwards in the league, some good role players, great depth, and a smart, hungry young coach.  We look like we'll be a good three point shooting team, with a more than respectable defense.

No, if Sully can reach those heights this year, there would be absolutely no reason for us to suck.

Not to mention averaging 18-12-3 is impressively hard to do:
http://bkref.com/tiny/2tMgo

So, yeah, I'm with you -- if Sullinger starts playing at that level, our team probably won't suck. OTOH, I think that's more evidence to the unlikelihood of those numbers than a vote of confidence in Sully's development.

I thought the 18/12/3 stat line was a reach, but [dang], that list is dominated by HOF type players. I think a realistic stat line of 15/10+/2 would be a tremendous season for Sully.

Re: Sullinger 2014-2015 Statistics
« Reply #84 on: October 25, 2014, 04:43:17 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Quote
I'm surprised there have not been so many predictions/projections on Sully's foul rate.

Key Element to boosting his projected stats, the reality will be somewhat different, though I am hoping that a year of experience, the refs will go easier on him.
The reality is that the majority of his foul issues last issues weren't because of the refs.
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Re: Sullinger 2014-2015 Statistics
« Reply #85 on: October 25, 2014, 04:46:59 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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You made a mistake based on second hand information posted by somebody else.  I corrected you.  You got in a tizzy about it.

And I'm the sensitive one?
No he didn't. Hptanzo suggested the line that D.O.S. examined. If you're going to accuse people of factual incorrectness you should be sure of your own point. Hptanzo isn't "nobody", nor did he suggest 18-12 it was 18-12-3 see below. D.O.S search does show that 8 players have achieved that based on his BBallRef search.

I'm going with 18 points, 12 rebounds, 3 assists. Points may be an overestimate, but the way he's rebounding, I think 12 a game is spot on, 10 is an underestimate.

Will he be an all-star? No, our team will still suck and there are too many PFs with more fan appeal and more established amongst coaches.

A bit of clarification: that BasketRef search only went back to the three point era, since I figured anything piror to that wouldn't be fair to Sullinger's game, which seems to be based at least in some part on scoring the three ball.

Also worth noting: Taking the assists out of the equation completely changes the point of the line, IMO, since then you're basically going off of the assumption that Sullinger could be roughly a 20-10 guy. Those are good numbers, to be sure, but it's the difference between being a Shaq or a Chris Webber and being a David Lee.

Thanks for the clarification.  I was focused more on the rarity of the stat line accomplishment rather than the date range.  Just assumed it was history.  Still, we're talking almost half the history of the NBA and the more recent aspect of the game.


  No offense to D.o.s., who certainly isn't the first of the posters here to make the type of post that he did, but I really don't like the "only X players in nba history have..." posts. They're extremely picky and frequently lack context. 11 players have averaged at least 18/12/3 since 1980, and they've done it a total of 35 times. That's true. But those numbers triple if you look at 17+ points, 11+ rebounds and 2+ assists, and they come close to doubling again if you go down to 10+ rebounds. That's nowhere near as rare, and if Sully averaged (for instance) 17.4/10.7/2.5 you'd be hard pressed to say that 18/12/3 was an outlandish prediction.

It's nowhere near as rare but it's still far from common.

Again, sticking with the introduction of the three:
http://bkref.com/tiny/Untee

Also, I'd like to point out (again) that taking the passing out of the equation really does change the point of the argument for me.
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Re: Sullinger 2014-2015 Statistics
« Reply #86 on: October 25, 2014, 08:07:58 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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15 and 9 maybe if he can stay on the court and get consistent starter minutes.  Have we officially given up on getting value for Bass?  Moving Bass to the bench and letting him expire (or buying him out mid-season) would give SUlly plenty of playing time this year.   I'd like to see Sully improve on his 43% shooting.  Would be cool to see him up it to 45%.  That would be respectable numbers.