Author Topic: The only fair system for the draft  (Read 4264 times)

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Re: The only fair system for the draft
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2014, 11:34:54 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I like what Scal said and it was my idea before

The 9th teams from each conferences that don't make the playoffs get one of the best chances to win the lottery

- 9th in each conferences + top 8 worse record teams get equal best chance to win the lotto
-  Then the same as usual from 5th worse to 13th (chances best to worse)

Some people here have said , well once you get to 9th you will just forget it. Well it doesn't work like that.  The fans want you to win and make the playoffs.   The 10th team is on your butt wanting to get 9th. The 11th team is on your butt etc.

It would make the league more competitive instead of the BS the 76ers is going to pull again this season.  The league has to change from "player means all" to "team/fans mean more".

Re: The only fair system for the draft
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2014, 11:37:13 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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How about this one...teams are only allowed to protect say 7 players.  Everyone else goes into a draft - along with all rookies coming into the league.  That way all teams need to use the draft as a key tool for building their rosters and there's less pressure to get the top pick.

It would take some tinkering - for example what do you do about players on multi year deals who get cut?  But I think its workable and reduces the need to tank.
Contracts are a major problem with that, as they are with what I had mentioned. Neither would pass the players' association.

Also, allowing 7 players to be protected -- is that with contracts like how we do them now? What if a player's contract is up? Back to the draft? Obviously we can't let teams determine unilaterally what players will stay (or Lebron would have been stuck in Miami this season). So you still have Milwaukee losing any star player they might acquire as they would just return to the draft figuring they couldn't end up anywhere worse.

What is the draft order if a team has no one left under contract? Do they fill all their other roster spots at the end of the draft or at the front of the draft?

Re: The only fair system for the draft
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2014, 11:40:39 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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I like what Scal said and it was my idea before

The 9th teams from each conferences that don't make the playoffs get one of the best chances to win the lottery

- 9th in each conferences + top 8 worse record teams get equal best chance to win the lotto
-  Then the same as usual from 5th worse to 13th (chances best to worse)

Some people here have said , well once you get to 9th you will just forget it. Well it doesn't work like that.  The fans want you to win and make the playoffs.   The 10th team is on your butt wanting to get 9th. The 11th team is on your butt etc.

It would make the league more competitive instead of the BS the 76ers is going to pull again this season.  The league has to change from "player means all" to "team/fans mean more".
There is no system that is going to fix this problem. How does Scal's suggestion have any bearing on the Sixers? Even if they went all out, they won't win that many. The same for Milwaukee and Orlando. The problem with his suggestion is that it is completely arbitrary.

Fans want good teams. You get good teams by getting good players. Trying hard doesn't make your team good. They all try hard until they realize that they are garbage and are getting walked over by opponents.

Perhaps the misunderstanding that 'trying harder' is enough is a major part of the problem.

It isn't the Philly fans that are complaining. It is the fans of other teams. The analysis is mistaken.

Re: The only fair system for the draft
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2014, 11:50:58 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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This draft talk all boils down to one question: Do we care if bad teams have a means to improve?

If we do, how is that done? It seems to me the only way to do that is to get better players. How can they get better players?

Trade - if they are bad, they don't have assets that can get back good assets
Free agents - a bad team in a bad market isn't going to attract many noteworthy free agents unless they grossly overpay
Draft - since every team gets a draft pick, even the good ones, the only way for the draft on average to help the bad teams get better is to give them on average better draft position than better teams.

Now people want to take away the draft?

Re: The only fair system for the draft
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2014, 11:55:22 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I like what Scal said and it was my idea before

The 9th teams from each conferences that don't make the playoffs get one of the best chances to win the lottery

- 9th in each conferences + top 8 worse record teams get equal best chance to win the lotto
-  Then the same as usual from 5th worse to 13th (chances best to worse)

Some people here have said , well once you get to 9th you will just forget it. Well it doesn't work like that.  The fans want you to win and make the playoffs.   The 10th team is on your butt wanting to get 9th. The 11th team is on your butt etc.

It would make the league more competitive instead of the BS the 76ers is going to pull again this season.  The league has to change from "player means all" to "team/fans mean more".
There is no system that is going to fix this problem. How does Scal's suggestion have any bearing on the Sixers? Even if they went all out, they won't win that many. The same for Milwaukee and Orlando. The problem with his suggestion is that it is completely arbitrary.

Fans want good teams. You get good teams by getting good players. Trying hard doesn't make your team good. They all try hard until they realize that they are garbage and are getting walked over by opponents.

Perhaps the misunderstanding that 'trying harder' is enough is a major part of the problem.

It isn't the Philly fans that are complaining. It is the fans of other teams. The analysis is mistaken.

yeah but thats whats wrong.   Its either win a championship or win the "player".   From like 10th to worse teams, there is no effort  at times.  There is no strategy to win. Sometimes its a strategy to lose. That is pathetic.

Maybe in like they do in soccer, the worse couple of teams should get sent down to the dleague when the season is over and the 2 dleague finalists get sent up to the nba.  (i know this won't fly but the way it is its pathetic).

You got to play to win and do your best to do that. If you don't have the talent fine. But don't throw away games for other purposes

Re: The only fair system for the draft
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2014, 11:55:44 PM »

Offline loco_91

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A couple months ago I proposed a system to prevent tanking without changing lotto odds, called Pick-Swap. It's based on the idea that if you trade your draft pick away, you're no longer incentivized to tank.

Here's how it works. Before the season begins, teams are heavily incentivized to swap draft picks with each other. Teams who don't swap could be prevented from getting a top-3 pick. Bad teams will swap with other bad teams, of course, so there is still an incentive for the front office to tank in the preseason, so that you can swap picks with another bad team. But once the swap is completed, all tanking incentive is eliminated. No longer will you have to root for the C's to lose; you'll be rooting against the Magic instead, or the Lakers. Moreover, games between teams that swap picks will take on special importance. By beating that team, you can actually improve your lotto standing!

Re: The only fair system for the draft
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2014, 12:14:00 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Most exciting draft since that one Chappelle did.

Haha, TP.  That was a great skit ;D.  As for fixing the draft, how about we start with getting rid of, "protected picks?"

Re: The only fair system for the draft
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2014, 12:23:35 AM »

Offline Kuberski33

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How about this one...teams are only allowed to protect say 7 players.  Everyone else goes into a draft - along with all rookies coming into the league.  That way all teams need to use the draft as a key tool for building their rosters and there's less pressure to get the top pick.

It would take some tinkering - for example what do you do about players on multi year deals who get cut?  But I think its workable and reduces the need to tank.
Contracts are a major problem with that, as they are with what I had mentioned. Neither would pass the players' association.

Also, allowing 7 players to be protected -- is that with contracts like how we do them now? What if a player's contract is up? Back to the draft? Obviously we can't let teams determine unilaterally what players will stay (or Lebron would have been stuck in Miami this season). So you still have Milwaukee losing any star player they might acquire as they would just return to the draft figuring they couldn't end up anywhere worse.

What is the draft order if a team has no one left under contract? Do they fill all their other roster spots at the end of the draft or at the front of the draft?
Remember...I just tossed this out there...its not well thought out...but...maybe you negotiate with the players association so that players with 3 years or less in the league can be cut at the end of any of their first 3 seasons - so control over them is entirely with the team.  Veterans with 3 years with the same team or over say 5 years in the league aren't eligible for the draft... and you limit the draft to say 4 rounds.  Players with more than 3 years who are on multi year deals have to be protected.

The thing is you introduce other good players into the pool - guys with league experience, guys with specific skill sets that certain teams may need, and a decent amount of guys who came in with big reputations who haven't panned out for one reason for another.  They'll still be wanted by GM's who loved them coming out of school. 

What you're trying to do is create an environment where any team can gain a valuable player and there's less benefit to tanking for a star than is currently the case.  With the goal being to make those first few picks less valuable.

Anyone who's draft eligible, but not drafted goes to free agency. 

Re: The only fair system for the draft
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2014, 10:02:42 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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or, another idea i saw on another site does not prohibit a team from winning the lottery multiple times, but rewards winning...somewhat.

draft ranking is determined by the number of WINS teams have AFTER they are eliminated from getting into the playoffs. the team with the most wins AFTER their elimination gets the first choice, second most wins the second choice, etc.

bad teams get good picks, but philly style tanking is punished. a really bad team would be eliminated from getting into the playoffs earlier than other teams, thereby it would have a longer chance to accumulate wins. but it would have to win games to win the top lottery pick.

any thoughts on this approach?
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