Author Topic: Did Belichick win all his Super Bowls with Parcells guys?  (Read 4036 times)

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Did Belichick win all his Super Bowls with Parcells guys?
« on: October 21, 2014, 04:48:51 PM »

Offline Eja117

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I was listening to the radio today and a caller seemed to lead me to this point. Is it fair?  I guess it mostly isn't, but it's worth noting once Parcell's guys (and to a lesser extent Carrol's) were gone Belichik seemed done.

Troy Brown
Ted Johnson
Viniateri
Ty Law
McGinest
Bruschi
Bledsoe
Kevin Faulk..Carrol guy
Damien Woody..also Carrol guy
Marty Moore...but he went to IR
Chris Sullivan
Tebucky Jones....not on the 1999 roster...a Carrol guy. BB must have brought him back

The theory doesn't seem to hold up. Several of the guys were the heart of the team, but BB went back to the Super Bowl recently with none of these guys. Plus there's this Brady guy...

But it does seem without some help BB may have a hard time getting back and winning. There are just so many guys that haven't been replaced effectively. The linebackers and defensive backs and OLine are a particular disappointment. Just so many wasted 2nd rounders

I'm nervous if BB were still here and Brady wasn't that with just a decent or above average QB like say Flaco we'd stand no chance.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 04:54:50 PM by eja117 »

Re: Did Belichick win all his Super Bowls with Parcells guys?
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2014, 04:54:54 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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If going to and losing two close SBs is "done", with continuous playoff appearances, can I sign my Chicago Bears to be "done"?

Re: Did Belichick win all his Super Bowls with Parcells guys?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2014, 04:56:48 PM »

Offline Eja117

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I just don't see the Pats as Super Bowl contenders any more. And I don't think they have been since Gronk started getting hurt.

Re: Did Belichick win all his Super Bowls with Parcells guys?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2014, 04:56:50 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Several of the core guys were carryovers from the Parcells days, even with the latter two Super Bowl titles but there were plenty of key guys, even in the first title year, that were brought in by Belichick. Won't even mention the QB.

Bryan Cox
David Patten
Marc Edwards
Mike Vrabel
Richard Seymour

Then you had guys like Daniel Graham, Deion Branch, Rodney Harrison, Rosie Colvin, Corey Dillon, Ted Washington, Vince Wilfork, Stephen Neal, Dan Koppen, Ty Warren, Asante Samuel, Eugene Wilson, etc.... that were all brought in by Belichick one way or another.

If you wanna talk coordinators, then, yeah, BB won with Parcells guys in Crennel & Weis. 


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Re: Did Belichick win all his Super Bowls with Parcells guys?
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2014, 04:57:32 PM »

Offline Redz

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Seymour was a pretty key piece - and a BB pick. 

What was he supposed to can all of Parcells' guys, just so his supremacy would be pure? 

Did John Farrell win with Bobby Valentine's guys  :D
Yup

Re: Did Belichick win all his Super Bowls with Parcells guys?
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2014, 05:01:21 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Several of the core guys were carryovers from the Parcells days, even with the latter two Super Bowl titles but there were plenty of key guys, even in the first title year, that were brought in by Belichick. Won't even mention the QB.

Bryan Cox
David Patten
Marc Edwards
Mike Vrabel
Richard Seymour

Then you had guys like Daniel Graham, Deion Branch, Rodney Harrison, Rosie Colvin, Corey Dillon, Ted Washington, Vince Wilfork, Stephen Neal, Dan Koppen, Ty Warren, Asante Samuel, Eugene Wilson, etc.... that were all brought in by Belichick one way or another.

If you wanna talk coordinators, then, yeah, BB won with Parcells guys in Crennel & Weis.
I totally agree.

In fact he's done an oookkaayy job replacing coordinators at least at times. Bill O'Brien comes to mind.

I do think though, that these guys were just never replaced....

Brushi, McGinist, Ty Law, and to a lesser extent Troy Brown.

Some guys sorta replaced others that he did a great job of going out to get...Gronk basically replaced Moss.  Koppen in the 5th round replaced Damien Woody right out of the gate and for less money.


But then what has been holding BB back? What is the difference between now and then?

Re: Did Belichick win all his Super Bowls with Parcells guys?
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2014, 05:08:29 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Several of the core guys were carryovers from the Parcells days, even with the latter two Super Bowl titles but there were plenty of key guys, even in the first title year, that were brought in by Belichick. Won't even mention the QB.

Bryan Cox
David Patten
Marc Edwards
Mike Vrabel
Richard Seymour

Then you had guys like Daniel Graham, Deion Branch, Rodney Harrison, Rosie Colvin, Corey Dillon, Ted Washington, Vince Wilfork, Stephen Neal, Dan Koppen, Ty Warren, Asante Samuel, Eugene Wilson, etc.... that were all brought in by Belichick one way or another.

If you wanna talk coordinators, then, yeah, BB won with Parcells guys in Crennel & Weis.
I totally agree.

In fact he's done an oookkaayy job replacing coordinators at least at times. Bill O'Brien comes to mind.

I do think though, that these guys were just never replaced....

Brushi, McGinist, Ty Law, and to a lesser extent Troy Brown.

Some guys sorta replaced others that he did a great job of going out to get...Gronk basically replaced Moss.  Koppen in the 5th round replaced Damien Woody right out of the gate and for less money.


But then what has been holding BB back? What is the difference between now and then?

The fact that the NFL can be a bit of a crapshoot and the whole idea of "any given Sunday"?  A team can put together a helluva gameplan for one game and beat anyone.  Belichick did it in Super Bowl 36 and was a victim of it in SB42.  Rex Ryan had a helluva game plan in the '11 divisonal playoff.  It happens.  No team or coaching staff is infallable.

Even despite all the recent criticism of Belichick the GM, that Pats team has gone to 3 straight AFC championship games and is currently at 5-2 this season.  They haven't had a sub .500 football team since 2000 and have only missed the playoffs twice since then with "paltry" records of 9-7 and 11-5. 

Organizations would kill for that recent track record.  In a league governed by a hard salary cap & a helluva lot of parity, the Pats have amazingly been pretty darn consistent.  They just haven't had a Lombardi trophy in a decade to show for it. 


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Re: Did Belichick win all his Super Bowls with Parcells guys?
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2014, 05:08:55 PM »

Offline dreamgreen

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Parcells was not in-charge of picking the players, that's' why he left. Remember the old "if your going to cook the dinner you should at least be able to pick the groceries"?

I do believe that BB the GM has not done BB the coach any favors. IMO Kraft should bring someone in to draft.

Re: Did Belichick win all his Super Bowls with Parcells guys?
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2014, 05:15:01 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Right. Maybe it's more related to the GM that went to Kansas City.

I just think the team has gone from great to good, and virtually its entire Super Bowl aspirations depend on the health of like 3 guys...Gronk, Brady, and for now maybe Edleman or Chandler Jones, and if you lose either of them you're not winning a Super Bowl that year, and I don't know if the contenders can say that in the same way, other than the QB position.

Here's another question....we think of Brady as irreplaceable, but how about Bill? If Bill were gone and Bill Cowher were brought in how much do we slip?

Re: Did Belichick win all his Super Bowls with Parcells guys?
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2014, 05:26:56 PM »

Offline Redz

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Right. Maybe it's more related to the GM that went to Kansas City.

I just think the team has gone from great to good, and virtually its entire Super Bowl aspirations depend on the health of like 3 guys...Gronk, Brady, and for now maybe Edleman or Chandler Jones, and if you lose either of them you're not winning a Super Bowl that year, and I don't know if the contenders can say that in the same way, other than the QB position.

Here's another question....we think of Brady as irreplaceable, but how about Bill? If Bill were gone and Bill Cowher were brought in how much do we slip?

Look at what happened when an unseasoned Pete Carroll came in to take over a loaded Parcells' Pats team.  Then again Switzer won in Dallas after Johnson.  Loads of talent helps.

I'm still tantalized by the thought of a healthy Gronk over the last several seasons.
Yup

Re: Did Belichick win all his Super Bowls with Parcells guys?
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2014, 05:28:43 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Right. Maybe it's more related to the GM that went to Kansas City.

I just think the team has gone from great to good, and virtually its entire Super Bowl aspirations depend on the health of like 3 guys...Gronk, Brady, and for now maybe Edleman or Chandler Jones, and if you lose either of them you're not winning a Super Bowl that year, and I don't know if the contenders can say that in the same way, other than the QB position.

Here's another question....we think of Brady as irreplaceable, but how about Bill? If Bill were gone and Bill Cowher were brought in how much do we slip?

Look at what happened when an unseasoned Pete Carroll came in to take over a loaded Parcells' Pats team.  Then again Switzer won in Dallas after Johnson.  Loads of talent helps.

I'm still tantalized by the thought of a healthy Gronk over the last several seasons.

And having another TE who wasn't out killing people (cough...sorry allegedly).


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Re: Did Belichick win all his Super Bowls with Parcells guys?
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2014, 05:32:05 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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He certainly won them with their camera equipment.  :P
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Did Belichick win all his Super Bowls with Parcells guys?
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2014, 05:33:11 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Right. Maybe it's more related to the GM that went to Kansas City.

I just think the team has gone from great to good, and virtually its entire Super Bowl aspirations depend on the health of like 3 guys...Gronk, Brady, and for now maybe Edleman or Chandler Jones, and if you lose either of them you're not winning a Super Bowl that year, and I don't know if the contenders can say that in the same way, other than the QB position.

Here's another question....we think of Brady as irreplaceable, but how about Bill? If Bill were gone and Bill Cowher were brought in how much do we slip?

Look at what happened when an unseasoned Pete Carroll came in to take over a loaded Parcells' Pats team.  Then again Switzer won in Dallas after Johnson.  Loads of talent helps.

I'm still tantalized by the thought of a healthy Gronk over the last several seasons.

And having another TE who wasn't out killing people (cough...sorry allegedly).
Ok that is a very good point. But this does happen to other teams....Ray Rice..Peterson....but i didn't think of them as contenders either

Re: Did Belichick win all his Super Bowls with Parcells guys?
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2014, 06:18:59 PM »

Offline tstorey_97

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Funny 180 degree observation...lot of folks claim Parcells would never win without BB as D coordinator. I guess it is a team sport, coaches included.

Since first Patriots SB wins game has changed. A. Smith and Corey Dillon played key roles...watch the games again. These "tailbacks" don't seem to exist anymore...certainly not on NE's roster. Each of those guys ripped numerous fourth quarter breakaway runs for TD's that got their team to the Super Bowl.

Another change here in New England. Accent no longer on defense. That ship has sailed league wide with new rules. Parcell's Giants teams were defensive. Those three NE SB teams were about defense.

The last two of NE's Super Bowl appearances they were about offense. "So and so dropped a pass."  I'm old, so I just don't believe in a team's chances for a championship unless they have a great defense. Parcell's and Belicick know this, neither of those guys would be the head coach of a San Diego Chargers type of "offensive" team that wins a bazillion regular season games but, loses in the playoffs ....(cough)...excuse me, I have to go now.

Re: Did Belichick win all his Super Bowls with Parcells guys?
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2014, 07:03:57 PM »

Offline Eja117

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The new emphasis on defensive flags so we can have video game numbers makes me want to puke and has shifted me to college ball