Author Topic: Scal and Tanguay on Toucher and Rich, discuss Rondo  (Read 13287 times)

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Re: Scal and Tanguay on Toucher and Rich, discuss Rondo
« Reply #75 on: October 22, 2014, 05:56:50 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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The 2014 Celtics probably aren't as good as the 2013 Celtics, who were not a very good basketball team.

Why would we be worse?  We only really lost Humphries over the offseason, and our core is at the point where they should be improving or at worst plateauing.  Is it the lack of Jordan Crawford?

The lack of Jordan Crawford just hurts me emotionally, not intellectually.  ;D

We had a better backcourt, a better frontcourt, better rotations... Healthy Rondo's a definite plus but only if he actually sees the floor.

Since the start of last season, the backcourt really only lost Crawford and Lee as players of note, and added Smart, Thornton, and a healthier Rondo.  Frontcourt just lost Hump, and  added Zeller and Turner (could be backcourt depending where he plays).   Plus whatever Young and Bynum give us (probably not much this year).  And guys like Sully/Oly/Bradley are likely to improve.   I don't see it.

Tell you what, I'll bet you a TP our record is better this season than last.  I'll even give it to you if we tie last season's record.

This pretty much sums it up.

I'm not going to assert the C's will go out and tear the league up.  But I have a hard time seeing how this team is worse than last year's team going into the season.

Sheesh - our most used front court pairings last year did not feature a player over 6' 10" -- and a huge amount of the time no player over 6' 9".

This year we have two guys who will likely get large minutes up front who are 7 footers.   I don't care that neither is an elite "rim protector" -- that's going to result in an improved front-court.

As to the 'advanced stats' thing -- Hump posted an inflated PER because when he WAS on the floor we fed him the ball a LOT -- his touches per minute was very high.  PER is normalized against minutes but is known to be inflated by touch rate.   Hump averaged 1.92 per minute.  For comparison, Jeff Green - our supposed 'go to guy' in the minds of some - averaged just 1.49 touches per minute.  Humphries' touch rate was 29% higher!

A cynical mind might suggest that we were 'pumping up' Humphries' stats.   But that's just cynicism, ... right?

At any rate - to return to the point, while I liked Hump and thought he played well for us, I have a hard time seeing how replacing his minutes with more from Zeller and Olynyk is going to make us worse.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Scal and Tanguay on Toucher and Rich, discuss Rondo
« Reply #76 on: October 22, 2014, 06:21:23 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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...
As to the 'advanced stats' thing -- Hump posted an inflated PER because when he WAS on the floor we fed him the ball a LOT -- his touches per minute was very high.  PER is normalized against minutes but is known to be inflated by touch rate.   Hump averaged 1.92 per minute.  For comparison, Jeff Green - our supposed 'go to guy' in the minds of some - averaged just 1.49 touches per minute.  Humphries' touch rate was 29% higher!

A cynical mind might suggest that we were 'pumping up' Humphries' stats.   But that's just cynicism, ... right?

At any rate - to return to the point, while I liked Hump and thought he played well for us, I have a hard time seeing how replacing his minutes with more from Zeller and Olynyk is going to make us worse.
How does rebounding fit into that? Green may be a 'go to guy' for scoring, but PER isn't just scoring. And by touches, are we talking true touches - how many times a player touched the ball - of some sort of computed touches based on other stats? Since per does not include actual touches, I'm not sure your 'touches' point stands.

Still, I think we are better off with the young guys developing.

Re: Scal and Tanguay on Toucher and Rich, discuss Rondo
« Reply #77 on: October 22, 2014, 06:23:00 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Crawford & Lee replaced replaced with Rondo (who missed the first months last year), Turner, Smart, and Thornton.

Re: Scal and Tanguay on Toucher and Rich, discuss Rondo
« Reply #78 on: October 23, 2014, 12:39:16 AM »

Offline mmmmm

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As to the 'advanced stats' thing -- Hump posted an inflated PER because when he WAS on the floor we fed him the ball a LOT -- his touches per minute was very high.  PER is normalized against minutes but is known to be inflated by touch rate.   Hump averaged 1.92 per minute.  For comparison, Jeff Green - our supposed 'go to guy' in the minds of some - averaged just 1.49 touches per minute.  Humphries' touch rate was 29% higher!

A cynical mind might suggest that we were 'pumping up' Humphries' stats.   But that's just cynicism, ... right?

At any rate - to return to the point, while I liked Hump and thought he played well for us, I have a hard time seeing how replacing his minutes with more from Zeller and Olynyk is going to make us worse.
How does rebounding fit into that? Green may be a 'go to guy' for scoring, but PER isn't just scoring. And by touches, are we talking true touches - how many times a player touched the ball - of some sort of computed touches based on other stats? Since per does not include actual touches, I'm not sure your 'touches' point stands.

Still, I think we are better off with the young guys developing.

Actual touches - as tracked by Synergy Player Tracking.

Hump did get more rebounds, but that doesn't come close to accounting for the difference in touch rate.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Scal and Tanguay on Toucher and Rich, discuss Rondo
« Reply #79 on: October 23, 2014, 12:56:54 AM »

Offline MBunge

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And to the extent preseason means anything, Boston was 2-6 last year and 5-3 this year.  And while the level of competition wasn't great, Smart led the way in minutes per game at just 26.4 so it's not like the Celts were "playing to win" when the other teams weren't.

Mike

Re: Scal and Tanguay on Toucher and Rich, discuss Rondo
« Reply #80 on: October 23, 2014, 03:34:12 AM »

Offline chambers

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We've beaten up some D league teams.
Don't get too excited.
Last year was focused on setting up a defensive mindset under the new coach.
This year looks like it will focus on offense and UBER development.
Danny's probably kicking himself that he didn't give Olynyk more time to showcase him last season.

Where we will suffer vs last year is when we face teams with solid post players. It will be even worse when we play teams like the Nets or Grizzlies with two dominant 7 footers. Who guards them? We'll get owned inside or torched from three and second chance points from rebounds will kill us.

Will be fun to watch though- Olynyk in particular is going to either make huge strides defensively and become a legit NBA big man with range, or he's going to be exposed as a poor mans Spencer Hawes with better range. (and Spencer Hawes sucks).

Pre season looks good but keep in mind that Stevens has obviously taken pre-season a little more seriously than most in an effort to set the tone early which is great.
Remember our starting units (minus Rondo) have been beating up on second and third string units for most of these preseason games. All those three's we've taken will be guarded tougher, closer and by bigger, faster athletes.

I'm really liking Stevens' tone with this young core though. Will be much more fun to watch than last season.
We might sniff 30-32 wins if things go better than expected with Sullinger and Smart.

Back to the original topic- Tanguay is an absolute Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. bag. He has no idea. I laughed at how he mocked the Red's Army guys for being fans as if to say 'fans- what would they know compared to me?' He's a hack with a microphone.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.