Scal and Tanguay on Toucher and Rich, discuss Rondo

[Fafnir]

The 2014 Celtics probably aren't as good as the 2013 Celtics, who were not a very good basketball team.

Why would we be worse?  We only really lost Humphries over the offseason, and our core is at the point where they should be improving or at worst plateauing.  Is it the lack of Jordan Crawford?

If you follow one of the two advanced stats cults Humprhies was a our best player, so of course we'll be worse without him!

[greece66]

Otherwise, all you shown here is that you can 'read between the lines' to make up whatever narrative you want.

I am here to have meaningful debates and a bit of fun.
I actually like it when people disagree with me.
What I do not like is when people deliberately misconstrue what I say (you did it more than once) or start personal attacks.
Have a nice day.

[fairweatherfan]

The 2014 Celtics probably aren't as good as the 2013 Celtics, who were not a very good basketball team.

Why would we be worse?  We only really lost Humphries over the offseason, and our core is at the point where they should be improving or at worst plateauing.  Is it the lack of Jordan Crawford?

If you follow one of the two advanced stats cults Humprhies was a our best player, so of course we'll be worse without him!

Hump really was a solid player for us, but didn't fit with the team's direction of course.  But I hear a lot of people saying we'll be worse than last year and can't for the life of me figure out how that's likely, unless it's taken for granted that we'll gut the team via trade.

[Fafnir]

The 2014 Celtics probably aren't as good as the 2013 Celtics, who were not a very good basketball team.

Why would we be worse?  We only really lost Humphries over the offseason, and our core is at the point where they should be improving or at worst plateauing.  Is it the lack of Jordan Crawford?

If you follow one of the two advanced stats cults Humprhies was a our best player, so of course we'll be worse without him!

Hump really was a solid player for us, but didn't fit with the team's direction of course.  But I hear a lot of people saying we'll be worse than last year and can't for the life of me figure out how that's likely, unless it's taken for granted that we'll gut the team via trade.

I really think those people assume Rondo isn't good anymore or will be traded.

[greece66]

Well done, Greece,

I've had my tea and my (really long) walk, and I have some counterarguments for your position on the whole Rondo question.  As you are probably aware, I think there are some fairly compelling reasons for Danny Ainge to prefer keeping Rajon Rondo for the long-term.

For starters, I don't buy the opinion that Rondo won't fit in with Stevens' read and react system.  If the "read and react" system means that the ball primarily moves around the perimeter or through the high post or whatever while all the players move around, set picks, and attempt to get open for cutting layups or open threes with a limited amount of dribble penetration, then I don't think Rondo would fit in very well in such a system.  Rondo's best skills are dribble penetration and passing off that penetration. 

I hope that coach Stevens is smart enough to realize that trying to build a winning NBA franchise without an elite dribble penetrator is not likely to yield championship level results. I think he is smart enough to realize that, and I think that if his inaugural Celtics season looked like one that eschewed dribble penetration as a strategy, that it is because he didn't have any elite dribble penetrators on the team (he did have Jordan Crawford, who was definitely fun to watch at times--but, "elite," let's not anyone kid ourselves about that one--is he in the league this year?)

If Brad Stevens is not smart enough to realize that any NBA team that wants to be in title contention needs an elite dribble penetrator, then I don't want him as coach of the Boston Celtics for the next six seasons.  Let's hope he realizes that the best quality an NBA coach can have is to maximize the talent he has on his roster, and when given a player of the abilities of Rajon Rondo to use his elite strengths to his team's advantage.

So, I'm not worried about Rondo fitting into coach Stevens' system.  I'm more worried about coach Stevens being able to fit his system to utilize the strength of his best player.  By all accounts, Brad Stevens is a really smart guy.  I think he'll figure it out. 

You might argue that what Danny and Brad really need to make it work is a player who brings the ability to create offense off the bounce like Rondo (it would be nice if he was also a top five defender and rebounder at his position) and is also an elite level catch and shoot perimeter player. 

To that, all I have to say is that Brad Stevens' contract could well be up before Danny finds him that player. 

Good luck!

Now, if Marcus Smart shows that he is almost a sure thing to bring all the things that Rondo brings at as high a level within the next four or five years, then maybe that changes matters.  Then, Danny would probably be tempted to see what he could get for either one of them. 

In that case, it might actually be Marcus Smart that it would make more sense to trade away.  But, that's a matter for another post. 

To sum it up, I'm guessing that Danny Ainge is aware that the skills that a healthy Rajon Rondo brings to the table at the level that he brings them will be very difficult to replace.  If Rondo (and I grant that it is an "if") can return to his best basketball form when he returns, the rebuild will most likely be much faster than if he is traded away for players who may one day down the road pan out as NBA stars. 

This is the Boston Celtics we are talking about, here, the most storied franchise--or, at the very least, one of the top two--in NBA history.  Do we really think Danny and Brad will be able to survive through a five or six (or seven . . . ) year rebuilding program?

I don't.

Thank you for your thoughts Celtics 18 (Are you a Dave Cowens fan?)
I agree that Stevens is smart enough to make up a system that would include Rondo.
I also agree that Rondo would be an asset rather than a drawback for the C's.
My impression however, is that Stevens is preparing the C's to play without Rondo. Either bcs they feel RR is not worth a max contract or bcs RR wants to go, I feel the C's are preparing for the next day. You are right, I have no hard evidence, call me a conspiratorial mind, I'm fine with it 
if I have one serious counter-argument it is this: elite dribble penetrators are not so hard to find these days. And if I am right, and we are going for the long term overhaul rather than try to trade our way back to contention in a year or two, then we are not in much of a hurry to get one either. Even if Smart turns out not to be the right guy, we have almost 10 first round picks in the next three years.
Anyway, this is the best answer I can come up with one, let's see if another cup of tea helps more.

[Celtics18]

I know C's are a better team this year but besides Philly, Miami and Pacers rest of the entire East got better.

Did Atlanta, Detroit, New York, Brooklyn get better?  Did Orlando and Milwaukee get significantly better?

Personally, I think we are going to be more better than many of those teams.

My opinion is yes they all got better.  Now would I say they are all making big jumps in talent or play,  no. My point is that the improvement by C's in comparison to last year's team isn't everything.  You have to look at what all the teams have done when predicting season outlook.

I'm not necessarily saying all those teams didn't improve, and I'm also not necessarily saying we'll be better than all those teams, what I am saying is that I think we improved more than the teams that I mentioned who are ahead of us.  Thus, the use of the grammatically awkward phrase "more better."

[Celtics18]

Well done, Greece,

I've had my tea and my (really long) walk, and I have some counterarguments for your position on the whole Rondo question.  As you are probably aware, I think there are some fairly compelling reasons for Danny Ainge to prefer keeping Rajon Rondo for the long-term.

For starters, I don't buy the opinion that Rondo won't fit in with Stevens' read and react system.  If the "read and react" system means that the ball primarily moves around the perimeter or through the high post or whatever while all the players move around, set picks, and attempt to get open for cutting layups or open threes with a limited amount of dribble penetration, then I don't think Rondo would fit in very well in such a system.  Rondo's best skills are dribble penetration and passing off that penetration. 

I hope that coach Stevens is smart enough to realize that trying to build a winning NBA franchise without an elite dribble penetrator is not likely to yield championship level results. I think he is smart enough to realize that, and I think that if his inaugural Celtics season looked like one that eschewed dribble penetration as a strategy, that it is because he didn't have any elite dribble penetrators on the team (he did have Jordan Crawford, who was definitely fun to watch at times--but, "elite," let's not anyone kid ourselves about that one--is he in the league this year?)

If Brad Stevens is not smart enough to realize that any NBA team that wants to be in title contention needs an elite dribble penetrator, then I don't want him as coach of the Boston Celtics for the next six seasons.  Let's hope he realizes that the best quality an NBA coach can have is to maximize the talent he has on his roster, and when given a player of the abilities of Rajon Rondo to use his elite strengths to his team's advantage.

So, I'm not worried about Rondo fitting into coach Stevens' system.  I'm more worried about coach Stevens being able to fit his system to utilize the strength of his best player.  By all accounts, Brad Stevens is a really smart guy.  I think he'll figure it out. 

You might argue that what Danny and Brad really need to make it work is a player who brings the ability to create offense off the bounce like Rondo (it would be nice if he was also a top five defender and rebounder at his position) and is also an elite level catch and shoot perimeter player. 

To that, all I have to say is that Brad Stevens' contract could well be up before Danny finds him that player. 

Good luck!

Now, if Marcus Smart shows that he is almost a sure thing to bring all the things that Rondo brings at as high a level within the next four or five years, then maybe that changes matters.  Then, Danny would probably be tempted to see what he could get for either one of them. 

In that case, it might actually be Marcus Smart that it would make more sense to trade away.  But, that's a matter for another post. 

To sum it up, I'm guessing that Danny Ainge is aware that the skills that a healthy Rajon Rondo brings to the table at the level that he brings them will be very difficult to replace.  If Rondo (and I grant that it is an "if") can return to his best basketball form when he returns, the rebuild will most likely be much faster than if he is traded away for players who may one day down the road pan out as NBA stars. 

This is the Boston Celtics we are talking about, here, the most storied franchise--or, at the very least, one of the top two--in NBA history.  Do we really think Danny and Brad will be able to survive through a five or six (or seven . . . ) year rebuilding program?

I don't.

Thank you for your thoughts Celtics 18 (Are you a Dave Cowens fan?)
I agree that Stevens is smart enough to make up a system that would include Rondo.
I also agree that Rondo would be an asset rather than a drawback for the C's.
My impression however, is that Stevens is preparing the C's to play without Rondo. Either bcs they feel RR is not worth a max contract or bcs RR wants to go, I feel the C's are preparing for the next day. You are right, I have no hard evidence, call me a conspiratorial mind, I'm fine with it 
if I have one serious counter-argument it is this: elite dribble penetrators are not so hard to find these days. And if I am right, and we are going for the long term overhaul rather than try to trade our way back to contention in a year or two, then we are not in much of a hurry to get one either. Even if Smart turns out not to be the right guy, we have almost 10 first round picks in the next three years.
Anyway, this is the best answer I can come up with one, let's see if another cup of tea helps more.

The 18 is for the next banner we are going to win.  I'm not old enough to have watched Cowens play. 

As to your one main counterargument, of course, elite dribble penetrators are hard to find.  That's why I use the adjective elite.  Ones who can do what Rondo does, and be able to make a positive play after breaking down the defense at the level that Rondo does, are rare indeed.

[greece66]

Well done, Greece,

I've had my tea and my (really long) walk, and I have some counterarguments for your position on the whole Rondo question.  As you are probably aware, I think there are some fairly compelling reasons for Danny Ainge to prefer keeping Rajon Rondo for the long-term.

For starters, I don't buy the opinion that Rondo won't fit in with Stevens' read and react system.  If the "read and react" system means that the ball primarily moves around the perimeter or through the high post or whatever while all the players move around, set picks, and attempt to get open for cutting layups or open threes with a limited amount of dribble penetration, then I don't think Rondo would fit in very well in such a system.  Rondo's best skills are dribble penetration and passing off that penetration. 

I hope that coach Stevens is smart enough to realize that trying to build a winning NBA franchise without an elite dribble penetrator is not likely to yield championship level results. I think he is smart enough to realize that, and I think that if his inaugural Celtics season looked like one that eschewed dribble penetration as a strategy, that it is because he didn't have any elite dribble penetrators on the team (he did have Jordan Crawford, who was definitely fun to watch at times--but, "elite," let's not anyone kid ourselves about that one--is he in the league this year?)

If Brad Stevens is not smart enough to realize that any NBA team that wants to be in title contention needs an elite dribble penetrator, then I don't want him as coach of the Boston Celtics for the next six seasons.  Let's hope he realizes that the best quality an NBA coach can have is to maximize the talent he has on his roster, and when given a player of the abilities of Rajon Rondo to use his elite strengths to his team's advantage.

So, I'm not worried about Rondo fitting into coach Stevens' system.  I'm more worried about coach Stevens being able to fit his system to utilize the strength of his best player.  By all accounts, Brad Stevens is a really smart guy.  I think he'll figure it out. 

You might argue that what Danny and Brad really need to make it work is a player who brings the ability to create offense off the bounce like Rondo (it would be nice if he was also a top five defender and rebounder at his position) and is also an elite level catch and shoot perimeter player. 

To that, all I have to say is that Brad Stevens' contract could well be up before Danny finds him that player. 

Good luck!

Now, if Marcus Smart shows that he is almost a sure thing to bring all the things that Rondo brings at as high a level within the next four or five years, then maybe that changes matters.  Then, Danny would probably be tempted to see what he could get for either one of them. 

In that case, it might actually be Marcus Smart that it would make more sense to trade away.  But, that's a matter for another post. 

To sum it up, I'm guessing that Danny Ainge is aware that the skills that a healthy Rajon Rondo brings to the table at the level that he brings them will be very difficult to replace.  If Rondo (and I grant that it is an "if") can return to his best basketball form when he returns, the rebuild will most likely be much faster than if he is traded away for players who may one day down the road pan out as NBA stars. 

This is the Boston Celtics we are talking about, here, the most storied franchise--or, at the very least, one of the top two--in NBA history.  Do we really think Danny and Brad will be able to survive through a five or six (or seven . . . ) year rebuilding program?

I don't.

Thank you for your thoughts Celtics 18 (Are you a Dave Cowens fan?)
I agree that Stevens is smart enough to make up a system that would include Rondo.
I also agree that Rondo would be an asset rather than a drawback for the C's.
My impression however, is that Stevens is preparing the C's to play without Rondo. Either bcs they feel RR is not worth a max contract or bcs RR wants to go, I feel the C's are preparing for the next day. You are right, I have no hard evidence, call me a conspiratorial mind, I'm fine with it 
if I have one serious counter-argument it is this: elite dribble penetrators are not so hard to find these days. And if I am right, and we are going for the long term overhaul rather than try to trade our way back to contention in a year or two, then we are not in much of a hurry to get one either. Even if Smart turns out not to be the right guy, we have almost 10 first round picks in the next three years.
Anyway, this is the best answer I can come up with one, let's see if another cup of tea helps more.

The 18 is for the next banner we are going to win.  I'm not old enough to have watched Cowens play. 

As to your one main counterargument, of course, elite dribble penetrators are hard to find.  That's why I use the adjective elite.  Ones who can do what Rondo does, and be able to make a positive play after breaking down the defense at the level that Rondo does, are rare indeed.

In that case, by the time your name becomes relevant, Eric Cartman will be at college 
Personally, I do not think it is crucial to have an "elite" PG/dribble penetrator to become a contender. There are plenty of very good guys available at really reasonable prices. (Let alone the cheap young talent we amass through the draft).

[D.o.s.]

The 2014 Celtics probably aren't as good as the 2013 Celtics, who were not a very good basketball team.

Why would we be worse?  We only really lost Humphries over the offseason, and our core is at the point where they should be improving or at worst plateauing.  Is it the lack of Jordan Crawford?

The lack of Jordan Crawford just hurts me emotionally, not intellectually. 

We had a better backcourt, a better frontcourt, better rotations... Healthy Rondo's a definite plus but only if he actually sees the floor.

[Celtics18]

Well done, Greece,

I've had my tea and my (really long) walk, and I have some counterarguments for your position on the whole Rondo question.  As you are probably aware, I think there are some fairly compelling reasons for Danny Ainge to prefer keeping Rajon Rondo for the long-term.

For starters, I don't buy the opinion that Rondo won't fit in with Stevens' read and react system.  If the "read and react" system means that the ball primarily moves around the perimeter or through the high post or whatever while all the players move around, set picks, and attempt to get open for cutting layups or open threes with a limited amount of dribble penetration, then I don't think Rondo would fit in very well in such a system.  Rondo's best skills are dribble penetration and passing off that penetration. 

I hope that coach Stevens is smart enough to realize that trying to build a winning NBA franchise without an elite dribble penetrator is not likely to yield championship level results. I think he is smart enough to realize that, and I think that if his inaugural Celtics season looked like one that eschewed dribble penetration as a strategy, that it is because he didn't have any elite dribble penetrators on the team (he did have Jordan Crawford, who was definitely fun to watch at times--but, "elite," let's not anyone kid ourselves about that one--is he in the league this year?)

If Brad Stevens is not smart enough to realize that any NBA team that wants to be in title contention needs an elite dribble penetrator, then I don't want him as coach of the Boston Celtics for the next six seasons.  Let's hope he realizes that the best quality an NBA coach can have is to maximize the talent he has on his roster, and when given a player of the abilities of Rajon Rondo to use his elite strengths to his team's advantage.

So, I'm not worried about Rondo fitting into coach Stevens' system.  I'm more worried about coach Stevens being able to fit his system to utilize the strength of his best player.  By all accounts, Brad Stevens is a really smart guy.  I think he'll figure it out. 

You might argue that what Danny and Brad really need to make it work is a player who brings the ability to create offense off the bounce like Rondo (it would be nice if he was also a top five defender and rebounder at his position) and is also an elite level catch and shoot perimeter player. 

To that, all I have to say is that Brad Stevens' contract could well be up before Danny finds him that player. 

Good luck!

Now, if Marcus Smart shows that he is almost a sure thing to bring all the things that Rondo brings at as high a level within the next four or five years, then maybe that changes matters.  Then, Danny would probably be tempted to see what he could get for either one of them. 

In that case, it might actually be Marcus Smart that it would make more sense to trade away.  But, that's a matter for another post. 

To sum it up, I'm guessing that Danny Ainge is aware that the skills that a healthy Rajon Rondo brings to the table at the level that he brings them will be very difficult to replace.  If Rondo (and I grant that it is an "if") can return to his best basketball form when he returns, the rebuild will most likely be much faster than if he is traded away for players who may one day down the road pan out as NBA stars. 

This is the Boston Celtics we are talking about, here, the most storied franchise--or, at the very least, one of the top two--in NBA history.  Do we really think Danny and Brad will be able to survive through a five or six (or seven . . . ) year rebuilding program?

I don't.

Thank you for your thoughts Celtics 18 (Are you a Dave Cowens fan?)
I agree that Stevens is smart enough to make up a system that would include Rondo.
I also agree that Rondo would be an asset rather than a drawback for the C's.
My impression however, is that Stevens is preparing the C's to play without Rondo. Either bcs they feel RR is not worth a max contract or bcs RR wants to go, I feel the C's are preparing for the next day. You are right, I have no hard evidence, call me a conspiratorial mind, I'm fine with it 
if I have one serious counter-argument it is this: elite dribble penetrators are not so hard to find these days. And if I am right, and we are going for the long term overhaul rather than try to trade our way back to contention in a year or two, then we are not in much of a hurry to get one either. Even if Smart turns out not to be the right guy, we have almost 10 first round picks in the next three years.
Anyway, this is the best answer I can come up with one, let's see if another cup of tea helps more.

The 18 is for the next banner we are going to win.  I'm not old enough to have watched Cowens play. 

As to your one main counterargument, of course, elite dribble penetrators are hard to find.  That's why I use the adjective elite.  Ones who can do what Rondo does, and be able to make a positive play after breaking down the defense at the level that Rondo does, are rare indeed.

In that case, by the time your name becomes relevant, Eric Cartman will be at college 
Personally, I do not think it is crucial to have an "elite" PG/dribble penetrator to become a contender. There are plenty of very good guys available at really reasonable prices. (Let alone the cheap young talent we amass through the draft).

That's where we differ.  I think you--and you are certainly not alone--underestimate how good a healthy Rajon Rondo really is. 

[aingeforthree]

The 2014 Celtics probably aren't as good as the 2013 Celtics, who were not a very good basketball team.

Why would we be worse?  We only really lost Humphries over the offseason, and our core is at the point where they should be improving or at worst plateauing.  Is it the lack of Jordan Crawford?

If you follow one of the two advanced stats cults Humprhies was a our best player, so of course we'll be worse without him!

What do your advance stats say about our Coach having another year and some experience under his belt ?

[greece66]

Well done, Greece,

I've had my tea and my (really long) walk, and I have some counterarguments for your position on the whole Rondo question.  As you are probably aware, I think there are some fairly compelling reasons for Danny Ainge to prefer keeping Rajon Rondo for the long-term.

For starters, I don't buy the opinion that Rondo won't fit in with Stevens' read and react system.  If the "read and react" system means that the ball primarily moves around the perimeter or through the high post or whatever while all the players move around, set picks, and attempt to get open for cutting layups or open threes with a limited amount of dribble penetration, then I don't think Rondo would fit in very well in such a system.  Rondo's best skills are dribble penetration and passing off that penetration. 

I hope that coach Stevens is smart enough to realize that trying to build a winning NBA franchise without an elite dribble penetrator is not likely to yield championship level results. I think he is smart enough to realize that, and I think that if his inaugural Celtics season looked like one that eschewed dribble penetration as a strategy, that it is because he didn't have any elite dribble penetrators on the team (he did have Jordan Crawford, who was definitely fun to watch at times--but, "elite," let's not anyone kid ourselves about that one--is he in the league this year?)

If Brad Stevens is not smart enough to realize that any NBA team that wants to be in title contention needs an elite dribble penetrator, then I don't want him as coach of the Boston Celtics for the next six seasons.  Let's hope he realizes that the best quality an NBA coach can have is to maximize the talent he has on his roster, and when given a player of the abilities of Rajon Rondo to use his elite strengths to his team's advantage.

So, I'm not worried about Rondo fitting into coach Stevens' system.  I'm more worried about coach Stevens being able to fit his system to utilize the strength of his best player.  By all accounts, Brad Stevens is a really smart guy.  I think he'll figure it out. 

You might argue that what Danny and Brad really need to make it work is a player who brings the ability to create offense off the bounce like Rondo (it would be nice if he was also a top five defender and rebounder at his position) and is also an elite level catch and shoot perimeter player. 

To that, all I have to say is that Brad Stevens' contract could well be up before Danny finds him that player. 

Good luck!

Now, if Marcus Smart shows that he is almost a sure thing to bring all the things that Rondo brings at as high a level within the next four or five years, then maybe that changes matters.  Then, Danny would probably be tempted to see what he could get for either one of them. 

In that case, it might actually be Marcus Smart that it would make more sense to trade away.  But, that's a matter for another post. 

To sum it up, I'm guessing that Danny Ainge is aware that the skills that a healthy Rajon Rondo brings to the table at the level that he brings them will be very difficult to replace.  If Rondo (and I grant that it is an "if") can return to his best basketball form when he returns, the rebuild will most likely be much faster than if he is traded away for players who may one day down the road pan out as NBA stars. 

This is the Boston Celtics we are talking about, here, the most storied franchise--or, at the very least, one of the top two--in NBA history.  Do we really think Danny and Brad will be able to survive through a five or six (or seven . . . ) year rebuilding program?

I don't.

Thank you for your thoughts Celtics 18 (Are you a Dave Cowens fan?)
I agree that Stevens is smart enough to make up a system that would include Rondo.
I also agree that Rondo would be an asset rather than a drawback for the C's.
My impression however, is that Stevens is preparing the C's to play without Rondo. Either bcs they feel RR is not worth a max contract or bcs RR wants to go, I feel the C's are preparing for the next day. You are right, I have no hard evidence, call me a conspiratorial mind, I'm fine with it 
if I have one serious counter-argument it is this: elite dribble penetrators are not so hard to find these days. And if I am right, and we are going for the long term overhaul rather than try to trade our way back to contention in a year or two, then we are not in much of a hurry to get one either. Even if Smart turns out not to be the right guy, we have almost 10 first round picks in the next three years.
Anyway, this is the best answer I can come up with one, let's see if another cup of tea helps more.

The 18 is for the next banner we are going to win.  I'm not old enough to have watched Cowens play. 

As to your one main counterargument, of course, elite dribble penetrators are hard to find.  That's why I use the adjective elite.  Ones who can do what Rondo does, and be able to make a positive play after breaking down the defense at the level that Rondo does, are rare indeed.

In that case, by the time your name becomes relevant, Eric Cartman will be at college 
Personally, I do not think it is crucial to have an "elite" PG/dribble penetrator to become a contender. There are plenty of very good guys available at really reasonable prices. (Let alone the cheap young talent we amass through the draft).

That's where we differ.  I think you--and you are certainly not alone--underestimate how good a healthy Rajon Rondo really is.

TP for the conversation. It will take some time to find out whether he is getting traded or not, in the meantime I hope he recovers soon enough, so we can enjoy watching him play.

[Celtics18]

Well done, Greece,

I've had my tea and my (really long) walk, and I have some counterarguments for your position on the whole Rondo question.  As you are probably aware, I think there are some fairly compelling reasons for Danny Ainge to prefer keeping Rajon Rondo for the long-term.

For starters, I don't buy the opinion that Rondo won't fit in with Stevens' read and react system.  If the "read and react" system means that the ball primarily moves around the perimeter or through the high post or whatever while all the players move around, set picks, and attempt to get open for cutting layups or open threes with a limited amount of dribble penetration, then I don't think Rondo would fit in very well in such a system.  Rondo's best skills are dribble penetration and passing off that penetration. 

I hope that coach Stevens is smart enough to realize that trying to build a winning NBA franchise without an elite dribble penetrator is not likely to yield championship level results. I think he is smart enough to realize that, and I think that if his inaugural Celtics season looked like one that eschewed dribble penetration as a strategy, that it is because he didn't have any elite dribble penetrators on the team (he did have Jordan Crawford, who was definitely fun to watch at times--but, "elite," let's not anyone kid ourselves about that one--is he in the league this year?)

If Brad Stevens is not smart enough to realize that any NBA team that wants to be in title contention needs an elite dribble penetrator, then I don't want him as coach of the Boston Celtics for the next six seasons.  Let's hope he realizes that the best quality an NBA coach can have is to maximize the talent he has on his roster, and when given a player of the abilities of Rajon Rondo to use his elite strengths to his team's advantage.

So, I'm not worried about Rondo fitting into coach Stevens' system.  I'm more worried about coach Stevens being able to fit his system to utilize the strength of his best player.  By all accounts, Brad Stevens is a really smart guy.  I think he'll figure it out. 

You might argue that what Danny and Brad really need to make it work is a player who brings the ability to create offense off the bounce like Rondo (it would be nice if he was also a top five defender and rebounder at his position) and is also an elite level catch and shoot perimeter player. 

To that, all I have to say is that Brad Stevens' contract could well be up before Danny finds him that player. 

Good luck!

Now, if Marcus Smart shows that he is almost a sure thing to bring all the things that Rondo brings at as high a level within the next four or five years, then maybe that changes matters.  Then, Danny would probably be tempted to see what he could get for either one of them. 

In that case, it might actually be Marcus Smart that it would make more sense to trade away.  But, that's a matter for another post. 

To sum it up, I'm guessing that Danny Ainge is aware that the skills that a healthy Rajon Rondo brings to the table at the level that he brings them will be very difficult to replace.  If Rondo (and I grant that it is an "if") can return to his best basketball form when he returns, the rebuild will most likely be much faster than if he is traded away for players who may one day down the road pan out as NBA stars. 

This is the Boston Celtics we are talking about, here, the most storied franchise--or, at the very least, one of the top two--in NBA history.  Do we really think Danny and Brad will be able to survive through a five or six (or seven . . . ) year rebuilding program?

I don't.

Thank you for your thoughts Celtics 18 (Are you a Dave Cowens fan?)
I agree that Stevens is smart enough to make up a system that would include Rondo.
I also agree that Rondo would be an asset rather than a drawback for the C's.
My impression however, is that Stevens is preparing the C's to play without Rondo. Either bcs they feel RR is not worth a max contract or bcs RR wants to go, I feel the C's are preparing for the next day. You are right, I have no hard evidence, call me a conspiratorial mind, I'm fine with it 
if I have one serious counter-argument it is this: elite dribble penetrators are not so hard to find these days. And if I am right, and we are going for the long term overhaul rather than try to trade our way back to contention in a year or two, then we are not in much of a hurry to get one either. Even if Smart turns out not to be the right guy, we have almost 10 first round picks in the next three years.
Anyway, this is the best answer I can come up with one, let's see if another cup of tea helps more.

The 18 is for the next banner we are going to win.  I'm not old enough to have watched Cowens play. 

As to your one main counterargument, of course, elite dribble penetrators are hard to find.  That's why I use the adjective elite.  Ones who can do what Rondo does, and be able to make a positive play after breaking down the defense at the level that Rondo does, are rare indeed.

In that case, by the time your name becomes relevant, Eric Cartman will be at college 
Personally, I do not think it is crucial to have an "elite" PG/dribble penetrator to become a contender. There are plenty of very good guys available at really reasonable prices. (Let alone the cheap young talent we amass through the draft).

That's where we differ.  I think you--and you are certainly not alone--underestimate how good a healthy Rajon Rondo really is.

TP for the conversation. It will take some time to find out whether he is getting traded or not, in the meantime I hope he recovers soon enough, so we can enjoy watching him play.

Cheers. 

[fairweatherfan]

The 2014 Celtics probably aren't as good as the 2013 Celtics, who were not a very good basketball team.

Why would we be worse?  We only really lost Humphries over the offseason, and our core is at the point where they should be improving or at worst plateauing.  Is it the lack of Jordan Crawford?

The lack of Jordan Crawford just hurts me emotionally, not intellectually. 

We had a better backcourt, a better frontcourt, better rotations... Healthy Rondo's a definite plus but only if he actually sees the floor.

Since the start of last season, the backcourt really only lost Crawford and Lee as players of note, and added Smart, Thornton, and a healthier Rondo.  Frontcourt just lost Hump, and  added Zeller and Turner (could be backcourt depending where he plays).   Plus whatever Young and Bynum give us (probably not much this year).  And guys like Sully/Oly/Bradley are likely to improve.   I don't see it.

Tell you what, I'll bet you a TP our record is better this season than last.  I'll even give it to you if we tie last season's record.

[D.o.s.]

Deal done.