Author Topic: 4s and 5s Are Interchangeable in the Celtics Offense  (Read 8140 times)

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Re: 4s and 5s Are Interchangeable in the Celtics Offense
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2014, 06:24:57 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Translation....

We are going to continue to get killed in the paint until we find a legitimate big man.

Based on the preseason, I'm not seeing any indication that we are going to get "killed in the paint."
Based on the preseason, it seems that the Celtics front court will be able to hold their own against second- and third-string players.

Like Jonas Valanciunas and Mason Plumlee?

Against 18 minutes of preseason Valanciunas, maybe.
And Mason Plumlee IS in fact the second-string player in Brooklyn, so yeah.
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Re: 4s and 5s Are Interchangeable in the Celtics Offense
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2014, 06:30:54 PM »

Offline greece66

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Stevens is making a virtue of necessity. Yet, there are some advantages in playing without a pure Center. Obradovic played many years in the Euroleague without a Center and he was fine.
What Obradovic did in a league without a defensive three second rule where players generally lack extraordinary athleticism (or size, for that matter) is not particularly relevant.

Stevens is obviously working with what he has. But the fact that the team can't field a better center than Olynyk or Sullinger will never be a virtue.
I wouldn't be so dismissive of such a great coach. In any case, there are plenty of teams in the NBA too that play without a Center. Reason is to get a legit Center you have to pay too a high a price. And you might be better off investing your money in other positions.
Personally I like a lot how Stevens uses Sullynyk in the offense. Victory-wise it will not get us much, but these two guys are developing in a direction that maximizes their respective strengths.
It's a different league. The coaching qualities of Obradovic are not the topic of debate here.

Also, while people insist on lamenting the "lack of real centers in the NBA", the truth is that most teams do have legit centers. That is, players that are big and strong enough to defend the 5 position in the NBA. The fact that most of those players are now skilled enough to not have to depend on brute force on the offensive end is a completely different topic.

Anyhow, here's a depth chart for all NBA teams: http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/depth-charts/nba.aspx. In my mind, there's overwhelming evidence that the average NBA starting center is bigger than Jared Sullinger, and more athletic than Kelly Olynyk.
Thank you for your thoughts.
Defending the 5 position is one thing.
Playing without a pure Center in the offense is another, and this is what Stevens comment was actually about.
You are putting words in my mouth and taking what I said out of context. This is impolite and does not lead to intelligent debate.
Have a nice day.

Re: 4s and 5s Are Interchangeable in the Celtics Offense
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2014, 08:25:46 PM »

Offline Jon

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I think people are overlooking the big point. Yes, the C's are missing a legit rim-protector (call said player a 4, 5, or a 6 for all I care). But such a player is not on our roster and is not readily available. So the C's have the option of putting the best possible players on the floor (meaning Olynyk/Sully or even Green/Sully 4/5 combos) or playing Zeller and/or Faverani minutes they don't really deserve.

And since neither of those two are rim protectors, there seems to be no point in not playing our best players the most minutes.


Re: 4s and 5s Are Interchangeable in the Celtics Offense
« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2014, 09:10:32 PM »

Offline billysan

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May as well outscore the other teams 4/5, we aren't Stopping them consistently. We made Jerome Jordan look like an all star Sunday.
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Re: 4s and 5s Are Interchangeable in the Celtics Offense
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2014, 09:11:27 PM »

Offline billysan

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May as well outscore the other teams 4/5, we aren't Stopping them consistently. We made Jerome Jordan look like an all star Sunday.
"First fix their hearts" -Eizo Shimabuku

Re: 4s and 5s Are Interchangeable in the Celtics Offense
« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2014, 10:08:33 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Sullinger won't be playing the five this year so.....

He did the other game when we went small.

What i like about the frontcourt of KO,Zeller, Sully, Bass rotation is that , the two that has played the best after three quarters will get to play majority of the 4th.  Same goes for every other position. Same needs to happen for the pg position even if Rondo comesback

Re: 4s and 5s Are Interchangeable in the Celtics Offense
« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2014, 10:09:34 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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May as well outscore the other teams 4/5, we aren't Stopping them consistently. We made Jerome Jordan look like an all star Sunday.
May as well outscore the other teams 4/5, we aren't Stopping them consistently. We made Jerome Jordan look like an all star Sunday.
now that is what I call consistency.  ;)
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Re: 4s and 5s Are Interchangeable in the Celtics Offense
« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2014, 11:10:11 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Translation....

We are going to continue to get killed in the paint until we find a legitimate big man.

Based on the preseason, I'm not seeing any indication that we are going to get "killed in the paint."
Based on the preseason, it seems that the Celtics front court will be able to hold their own against second- and third-string players.

Like Jonas Valanciunas and Mason Plumlee?

Against 18 minutes of preseason Valanciunas, maybe.

Well, it's preseason Sully and Kelly as well. 

Many observers seem to have the notion that we won't be able to compete on the interior so ingrained in their minds that they end up ignoring the reality of what's actually been happening on the court. 

The truth is that Sully and Kelly have played fairly sound defense so far this preseason.  They've been defending their positions and taking care of the defensive glass. 

They aren't great erasers on drives.  For this reason, it will definitely be up to the guards and wings to minimize the amount of free drives they allow into the lane. 

When the season starts, and we end up in the top half of the league defensively, many of you will still be pointing at individual plays and rail about how atrocious our defense is.

Even last year's defense was close to average.  We need to be a little bit better this season.  I feel that this is an attainable goal for this team. 
« Last Edit: October 20, 2014, 11:18:28 PM by Celtics18 »
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: 4s and 5s Are Interchangeable in the Celtics Offense
« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2014, 11:20:25 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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And, of course, on the other end the Sully/Kelly front line should be able to create some mismatches and open up the floor for Rondo and Jeff Green to go to work in the lane. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: 4s and 5s Are Interchangeable in the Celtics Offense
« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2014, 11:28:19 PM »

Offline Chris22

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Translation....

We are going to continue to get killed in the paint until we find a legitimate big man.

Based on the preseason, I'm not seeing any indication that we are going to get "killed in the paint."

Trust me, there are some big boys in the NBA who are going to kill us. General Zod for one...

http://www.gazettenet.com/home/5421735-95/nikola-pekovic-hammers-celtics-in-minnesotas-110-100-win

Re: 4s and 5s Are Interchangeable in the Celtics Offense
« Reply #40 on: October 20, 2014, 11:33:31 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Translation....

We are going to continue to get killed in the paint until we find a legitimate big man.

Based on the preseason, I'm not seeing any indication that we are going to get "killed in the paint."

Trust me, there are some big boys in the NBA who are going to kill us. General Zod for one...

http://www.gazettenet.com/home/5421735-95/nikola-pekovic-hammers-celtics-in-minnesotas-110-100-win



DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: 4s and 5s Are Interchangeable in the Celtics Offense
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2014, 07:46:21 AM »

Offline billysan

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May as well outscore the other teams 4/5, we aren't Stopping them consistently. We made Jerome Jordan look like an all star Sunday.
May as well outscore the other teams 4/5, we aren't Stopping them consistently. We made Jerome Jordan look like an all star Sunday.
now that is what I call consistency.  ;)
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Re: 4s and 5s Are Interchangeable in the Celtics Offense
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2014, 09:23:24 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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We have played some crappy teams in preseason.

Re: 4s and 5s Are Interchangeable in the Celtics Offense
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2014, 09:38:53 AM »

Offline CelticsFanFromNYC

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Best chance is to lay off the man 2 man whenever we possibly can.. were going to need all the help D down low in the post as we possibly can.. Gotta force team to take a baseline approach then driving straight to the hole..

 Sully might not block shots but he is a big dude out there in the paint.. his shot interruptions wont translate on the box score but he will hold his own