The current market for Brandon Bass

[Endless Paradise]

I'm not sure why you're bringing up the fact that McGary got in trouble for smoking pot as though OKC didn't know that before they drafted him.  That's not particularly relevant as to whether OKC would be willing to trade him.  If they were concerned about the weed, they wouldn't have drafted him in the first place.

Yes EP, I am an idiot.  I have been teaching at the college level for almost 25 years, headed our state organization for 5 years, and have been on our regional board for over a decade.  Yes, I am an IDIOT.  My main point of contention with most of your opinions on Bass are that you guys are underestimating GM's opinions of Bass.  He is a true professional who is solid on offense and defense.  I bet you guys were saying the very same things about Jeff Green before the Grantland authors let us know that Green has a stellar reputation throughout the NBA with GM's.  I realize that we often overestimate the worth of OUR players, but I truly think that many are underestimating what many GM's think about Brandon Bass!!  But what do I know.  As EP insinuated, I am just an IDIOT.  Perhaps one day I will have the IQ of Endless Paradise:-))))))))

Smitty77

... what? You might want to check who posted the message you're referring to, because I most certainly did not insinuate you were an idiot.

[LooseCannon]

My main point of contention with most of your opinions on Bass are that you guys are underestimating GM's opinions of Bass.  He is a true professional who is solid on offense and defense.  I bet you guys were saying the very same things about Jeff Green before the Grantland authors let us know that Green has a stellar reputation throughout the NBA with GM's.  I realize that we often overestimate the worth of OUR players, but I truly think that many are underestimating what many GM's think about Brandon Bass!!  But what do I know. 

Zack Lowe, the guy who described Jeff Green  as "a likable guy with more fans across the league than you might expect", is also the guy who predicted that "Bass will take a pay cut, and probably a severe one, when he hits free agency next summer".

I suspect your "knowledge" of what GMs think is really you projecting your own talent evaluation onto them.  A team might give up a second-round pick for him, especially if Boston takes back a larger expiring salary, but no team is giving up a young player who they believe still has upside to bring in Brandon Bass for the rest of the year.

[Smitty77]

I'm not sure why you're bringing up the fact that McGary got in trouble for smoking pot as though OKC didn't know that before they drafted him.  That's not particularly relevant as to whether OKC would be willing to trade him.  If they were concerned about the weed, they wouldn't have drafted him in the first place.

Yes EP, I am an idiot.  I have been teaching at the college level for almost 25 years, headed our state organization for 5 years, and have been on our regional board for over a decade.  Yes, I am an IDIOT.  My main point of contention with most of your opinions on Bass are that you guys are underestimating GM's opinions of Bass.  He is a true professional who is solid on offense and defense.  I bet you guys were saying the very same things about Jeff Green before the Grantland authors let us know that Green has a stellar reputation throughout the NBA with GM's.  I realize that we often overestimate the worth of OUR players, but I truly think that many are underestimating what many GM's think about Brandon Bass!!  But what do I know.  As EP insinuated, I am just an IDIOT.  Perhaps one day I will have the IQ of Endless Paradise:-))))))))

Smitty77

... what? You might want to check who posted the message you're referring to, because I most certainly did not insinuate you were an idiot.

Sorry EP.  It was Loose Cannon (perhaps an appropriate name) that for all practical purposes called me an idiot.  My bad.

Smitty77

[Smitty77]

My main point of contention with most of your opinions on Bass are that you guys are underestimating GM's opinions of Bass.  He is a true professional who is solid on offense and defense.  I bet you guys were saying the very same things about Jeff Green before the Grantland authors let us know that Green has a stellar reputation throughout the NBA with GM's.  I realize that we often overestimate the worth of OUR players, but I truly think that many are underestimating what many GM's think about Brandon Bass!!  But what do I know. 

Zack Lowe, the guy who described Jeff Green  as "a likable guy with more fans across the league than you might expect", is also the guy who predicted that "Bass will take a pay cut, and probably a severe one, when he hits free agency next summer".

I suspect your "knowledge" of what GMs think is really you projecting your own talent evaluation onto them.  A team might give up a second-round pick for him, especially if Boston takes back a larger expiring salary, but no team is giving up a young player who they believe still has upside to bring in Brandon Bass for the rest of the year.

Of course Bass will likely take a pay cut as he will be another year older and likely have a reduced role with the Celtics until he is traded.  Bass will still get close to the mid-level exception from someone.  I don't think his pay cut will be severe.  I think we could get a late first for Bass.  If anyone can get that, Danny can and likely will.  I mean, he got two likely early second round picks for Jordan Crawford!!!

Smitty77

[LooseCannon]

I mean, he got two likely early second round picks for Jordan Crawford!!!

Those picks were more for taking on the contract of Joel Anthony than for giving someone Jordan Crawford.

[Smitty77]

I mean, he got two likely early second round picks for Jordan Crawford!!!

Those picks were more for taking on the contract of Joel Anthony than for giving someone Jordan Crawford.

Oh yes LC, all three second rounders were more for taking on Joel Anthony:-))))))))) 

Smitty77

[crimson_stallion]

Can't we just move Sully instead?

Bass is a good sized expiring contract and is a guy who contributes solidly on both ends of the court.  Plus we could use his work ethic and experience - he's a good role model to the young guys. Also his value isn't super high, so he probably wouldn't return that much.

Sully on the other hand is inefficient on offense (that shot selection ... ugh!!), horrible on defence (I think Shaq TODAY would have better lateral quickness) and is so out of shape that he gets winded after 5 minutes on the court. Yet he's young and he has decent trade value, so he might bring back a decent return. 

[chambers]

Please stop with the Steven Adams for scrubs trades. He is a Center. He is huge. He is athletic. He can block, steal, rebound and score around the rim. These all make very valuable, especially for a Team that had only one weak link which was a broken down Perk for center.

You make it sound like he's some all star. I have no idea where the love for Adams is coming from lately. He's a good center but that is just because the bar for a starting center is so low these days. Big and not a turnover machine will basically get you a roster spot in today's NBA.

I don't know OKC trades Adams for anyone on the C's roster now... Not KO, no Sully and def not Bass..

Yeah I'm not sure you know what you're talking about. Certainly they would trade Adams for Rondo. That is just an asset exchange no sane GM turns down. I'd argue they'd also take Smart in a second over Adams. In fairness those might be our two best player-assets. Sully and KO are in the same ball park with Adams and I don't see the huge gap that other people seem to. Statistically our guys have out played Adams and it isn't even close.The only edge Adams could claim would be in blocks but that should be obvious. Adams has no outside game whatsoever and can't shoot free throws. Only a few guys in the league get away with that. Now I know that Adams might become something great, most NBA players have that potential. As it stands our guys are playing better basketball.

Only possible trade would be if Rondo came back strong and they wanted to move RW to the 2, but even that is a stretch.....

The bigger point here is that you think that Rondo for Adams might be lopsided in our favor. I guess we're just living in different worlds.

I would consider myself a pretty reasonable, logical fan and I wouldn't be able to confidently say that Steven Adams for Rondo with an expiring deal, coming off injury- would be an acceptable trade from the Thunder's point of view.
Adams was excellent last season, and he's been crushing this pre season and looks to be the real deal- a 7 footer with insanely good hands, feet and IQ on a rookie deal.
 
Remember how much the Thunder love their low cost binkies- Adams is exactly that.
I'm not saying I'd trade Rondo for Adams all day from the C's point of view, but I can see why we would say yes, or rather how the Thunder would say 'hell no'.

[crimson_stallion]

Please stop with the Steven Adams for scrubs trades. He is a Center. He is huge. He is athletic. He can block, steal, rebound and score around the rim. These all make very valuable, especially for a Team that had only one weak link which was a broken down Perk for center.

You make it sound like he's some all star. I have no idea where the love for Adams is coming from lately. He's a good center but that is just because the bar for a starting center is so low these days. Big and not a turnover machine will basically get you a roster spot in today's NBA.

I don't know OKC trades Adams for anyone on the C's roster now... Not KO, no Sully and def not Bass..

Yeah I'm not sure you know what you're talking about. Certainly they would trade Adams for Rondo. That is just an asset exchange no sane GM turns down. I'd argue they'd also take Smart in a second over Adams. In fairness those might be our two best player-assets. Sully and KO are in the same ball park with Adams and I don't see the huge gap that other people seem to. Statistically our guys have out played Adams and it isn't even close.The only edge Adams could claim would be in blocks but that should be obvious. Adams has no outside game whatsoever and can't shoot free throws. Only a few guys in the league get away with that. Now I know that Adams might become something great, most NBA players have that potential. As it stands our guys are playing better basketball.

Only possible trade would be if Rondo came back strong and they wanted to move RW to the 2, but even that is a stretch.....

The bigger point here is that you think that Rondo for Adams might be lopsided in our favor. I guess we're just living in different worlds.

I would consider myself a pretty reasonable, logical fan and I wouldn't be able to confidently say that Steven Adams for Rondo with an expiring deal, coming off injury- would be an acceptable trade from the Thunder's point of view.
Adams was excellent last season, and he's been crushing this pre season and looks to be the real deal- a 7 footer with insanely good hands, feet and IQ on a rookie deal.
 
Remember how much the Thunder love their low cost binkies- Adams is exactly that.
I'm not saying I'd trade Rondo for Adams all day from the C's point of view, but I can see why we would say yes, or rather how the Thunder would say 'hell no'.

I can't.  No disrespect intended, but if we made that trade Boston and (Danny Ainge) would be the laughing stock of the league.  That would be far, far more one-sided then the trade that sent Pau Gasol to the Lakers (and people are still chuckling about that one).

Rondo is a legitimate NBA champion, multi-time All-Star, 4-time All-Defensive team member, has led the league in assists on multiple occasions, and is (from memory) second among all active players in triple doubles. 

You're comparing him to a young prospect who has played only one season in the league, and in that season has averaged 3 PPG and 4 RPG in a measly 15 minutes of play against second tier NBA players.  To put things in to perspective, those are the exact same numbers we got from Shavlik Randolph in his 15 minutes of play in 2012-13.  Although Randolph shot a higher percentage from the field (58%).

Moral of the story here is that playing 15 MPG against NBA benches is not the same experience as playing 30-35 minutes a game against NBA starters.  Trading Rondo for Adams would be like trading Rondo for Shavlik Randolph, except that Adams is (of course) younger...so you are pretty much giving away the best player on your team in return for a the HOPE that a raw prospect will one day become somebody.

It's a perfect understandable trade for Danny Ainge to make...if he wants to be out of a job in about 3 seconds flat.

[Joe Green]

Please stop with the Steven Adams for scrubs trades. He is a Center. He is huge. He is athletic. He can block, steal, rebound and score around the rim. These all make very valuable, especially for a Team that had only one weak link which was a broken down Perk for center.

Yeah I'm not sure you know what you're talking about. Certainly they would trade Adams for Rondo. That is just an asset exchange no sane GM turns down. I'd argue they'd also take Smart in a second over Adams. In fairness those might be our two best player-assets. Sully and KO are in the same ball park with Adams and I don't see the huge gap that other people seem to. Statistically our guys have out played Adams and it isn't even close.The only edge Adams could claim would be in blocks but that should be obvious. Adams has no outside game whatsoever and can't shoot free throws. Only a few guys in the league get away with that. Now I know that Adams might become something great, most NBA players have that potential. As it stands our guys are playing better basketball.

The bigger point here is that you think that Rondo for Adams might be lopsided in our favor. I guess we're just living in different worlds.

I would consider myself a pretty reasonable, logical fan and I wouldn't be able to confidently say that Steven Adams for Rondo with an expiring deal, coming off injury- would be an acceptable trade from the Thunder's point of view.
Adams was excellent last season, and he's been crushing this pre season and looks to be the real deal- a 7 footer with insanely good hands, feet and IQ on a rookie deal.
 
Remember how much the Thunder love their low cost binkies- Adams is exactly that.
I'm not saying I'd trade Rondo for Adams all day from the C's point of view, but I can see why we would say yes, or rather how the Thunder would say 'hell no'.

I can't.  No disrespect intended, but if we made that trade Boston and (Danny Ainge) would be the laughing stock of the league.  That would be far, far more one-sided then the trade that sent Pau Gasol to the Lakers (and people are still chuckling about that one).

Rondo is a legitimate NBA champion, multi-time All-Star, 4-time All-Defensive team member, has led the league in assists on multiple occasions, and is (from memory) second among all active players in triple doubles. 

You're comparing him to a young prospect who has played only one season in the league, and in that season has averaged 3 PPG and 4 RPG in a measly 15 minutes of play against second tier NBA players.  To put things in to perspective, those are the exact same numbers we got from Shavlik Randolph in his 15 minutes of play in 2012-13.  Although Randolph shot a higher percentage from the field (58%).

Moral of the story here is that playing 15 MPG against NBA benches is not the same experience as playing 30-35 minutes a game against NBA starters.  Trading Rondo for Adams would be like trading Rondo for Shavlik Randolph, except that Adams is (of course) younger...so you are pretty much giving away the best player on your team in return for a the HOPE that a raw prospect will one day become somebody.

It's a perfect understandable trade for Danny Ainge to make...if he wants to be out of a job in about 3 seconds flat.

I am NOT saying Adams is a better player than Rondo. That is crazy and you will not find that in my post. I am not EVEN saying Adams is better than Sully/KO but that is debatable.

I AM saying - Adams will not be traded for Bass (which people have suggested on this post)
I AM saying - Centers are at a Premium in this league, especially young, cheap, big and athletic ones
And I AM saying trades are often about fit. Adams fits OCS' need now, more than anything we can offer. Maybe, even Rondo. There is no way OKC is winning a championship with a Perk/McGary center duo - and that is the only thing that matters to them right now....

If you disagree with any of these three points - PLEASE let me know since that is a debate I am interested in.

If you want to call me an Idiot... feel free to open a new thread titled "Joe Green is an Idiot"...

TNX (:

[chambers]

Please stop with the Steven Adams for scrubs trades. He is a Center. He is huge. He is athletic. He can block, steal, rebound and score around the rim. These all make very valuable, especially for a Team that had only one weak link which was a broken down Perk for center.

You make it sound like he's some all star. I have no idea where the love for Adams is coming from lately. He's a good center but that is just because the bar for a starting center is so low these days. Big and not a turnover machine will basically get you a roster spot in today's NBA.

I don't know OKC trades Adams for anyone on the C's roster now... Not KO, no Sully and def not Bass..

Yeah I'm not sure you know what you're talking about. Certainly they would trade Adams for Rondo. That is just an asset exchange no sane GM turns down. I'd argue they'd also take Smart in a second over Adams. In fairness those might be our two best player-assets. Sully and KO are in the same ball park with Adams and I don't see the huge gap that other people seem to. Statistically our guys have out played Adams and it isn't even close.The only edge Adams could claim would be in blocks but that should be obvious. Adams has no outside game whatsoever and can't shoot free throws. Only a few guys in the league get away with that. Now I know that Adams might become something great, most NBA players have that potential. As it stands our guys are playing better basketball.

Only possible trade would be if Rondo came back strong and they wanted to move RW to the 2, but even that is a stretch.....

The bigger point here is that you think that Rondo for Adams might be lopsided in our favor. I guess we're just living in different worlds.

I would consider myself a pretty reasonable, logical fan and I wouldn't be able to confidently say that Steven Adams for Rondo with an expiring deal, coming off injury- would be an acceptable trade from the Thunder's point of view.
Adams was excellent last season, and he's been crushing this pre season and looks to be the real deal- a 7 footer with insanely good hands, feet and IQ on a rookie deal.
 
Remember how much the Thunder love their low cost binkies- Adams is exactly that.
I'm not saying I'd trade Rondo for Adams all day from the C's point of view, but I can see why we would say yes, or rather how the Thunder would say 'hell no'.

I can't.  No disrespect intended, but if we made that trade Boston and (Danny Ainge) would be the laughing stock of the league.  That would be far, far more one-sided then the trade that sent Pau Gasol to the Lakers (and people are still chuckling about that one).

Rondo is a legitimate NBA champion, multi-time All-Star, 4-time All-Defensive team member, has led the league in assists on multiple occasions, and is (from memory) second among all active players in triple doubles. 

You're comparing him to a young prospect who has played only one season in the league, and in that season has averaged 3 PPG and 4 RPG in a measly 15 minutes of play against second tier NBA players.  To put things in to perspective, those are the exact same numbers we got from Shavlik Randolph in his 15 minutes of play in 2012-13.  Although Randolph shot a higher percentage from the field (58%).

Moral of the story here is that playing 15 MPG against NBA benches is not the same experience as playing 30-35 minutes a game against NBA starters.  Trading Rondo for Adams would be like trading Rondo for Shavlik Randolph, except that Adams is (of course) younger...so you are pretty much giving away the best player on your team in return for a the HOPE that a raw prospect will one day become somebody.

It's a perfect understandable trade for Danny Ainge to make...if he wants to be out of a job in about 3 seconds flat.

No disrespect taken, and I agree with pretty much all of your points about Rondo- and obviously I don't think Adams is a better player than Rondo.

 My reply was to nostar when he stated that Joe Green had 'no idea what he was talking about', after Joe Green suggested that the Thunder wouldn't trade Adams for anyone on the Celtics roster. I think that it's not that cut and dry and that Joe Green has a point.
 
 My point is more about why OKC wouldn't do a Rondo for Adams swap- I mentioned that I could see reasoning for the Celtics saying yes to a deal like that- but the realm in which the Thunder trade Adams for Rondo is close to non-existence. Why? Because Adams has shown incredible potential and growth in just one season- he's possibly the strongest player in the NBA and he's 21 years old- he's got the footwork and hands of a professional heavy weight boxer yet his basketball IQ and anticipation, particularly on the defensive end, are incredible.   

 Would you trade him for a one year of another point guard that forces Westbrook to play shooting guard and throws their offensive system in overhaul... the year before Durant hits free agency? I'll also add that since returning from injury that point guard has struggled to replicate his former All Star caliber level of play...
 
   They made the finals once before with Perkins being meh, and Adams is looking like he may take the starting spot from Perkins come playoff time...(I know it's not that hard to be better than 2014 Perkins, but the point stands).
 
Give this guy 4 or 5 seasons and by the time he's 25 years old he's potentially battling Anthony Davis and Marcus Smart for the defensive player of the year with a nice complementary post + pick and roll finishing game.

 The Shav Randolph comparison doesn't fit in this discussion- because Shavlik Randolph never had the potential to be a top 5 defensive big man in the NBA.

Anyway, I wouldn't be so sure that such a trade is a no brainer for OKC, or that the Celtics get laughed at by the rest of the league for such a trade either.
 The Gasol trade you're talking about actually gave the Grizzlies Marc Gasol and some first round picks so the point is moot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdYldmltpJs

[Joe Green]

One more thing about Rondo-Adams (non) trade.

Our own (Beloved?) Bill Simmons is stating he believes Danny will trade Rondo to NY (a division rival) for Shump, a pick and cap relief. I am not sure I would sign Shump as a F/A, let alone trade one of my all-time favorites for this oft injured, no offense knick...

I do not want to see Rondo go.

I do not want him traded for Adams.

But his value around the league is not as high as some might think. Centers are super valuable. PG right now - not so much (Philly is offering their Rookie of the year PG for a pick). Just sayin....

[greece66]

One more thing about Rondo-Adams (non) trade.

Our own (Beloved?) Bill Simmons is stating he believes Danny will trade Rondo to NY (a division rival) for Shump, a pick and cap relief. I am not sure I would sign Shump as a F/A, let alone trade one of my all-time favorites for this oft injured, no offense knick...

I do not want to see Rondo go.

I do not want him traded for Adams.

But his value around the league is not as high as some might think. Centers are super valuable. PG right now - not so much (Philly is offering their Rookie of the year PG for a pick). Just sayin....

I definitely agree that the value of PGs has gone down. There are simply too many good PGs in the league. It is ridiculous.

Still, if Hinkie is offering MCW for a draft pick they should put him in a mental hospital. I mean, you make a whole strategy out of sucking every year so that you get young talent, and then you give up the talent you' ve just got for future talent... Where does this end? Poor Philly fans...

[JumpingJudkins]

My main point of contention with most of your opinions on Bass are that you guys are underestimating GM's opinions of Bass.  He is a true professional who is solid on offense and defense.  I bet you guys were saying the very same things about Jeff Green before the Grantland authors let us know that Green has a stellar reputation throughout the NBA with GM's.  I realize that we often overestimate the worth of OUR players, but I truly think that many are underestimating what many GM's think about Brandon Bass!! 

Not calling anyone an idiot, but Ainge was trying desperately to trade Bass in the offseason, and apparently the closest he got was to the Warriors -- for nothing but a trade exception, which the Warriors eventually decided they'd rather let expire. So we were willing to let him go for literally nothing, but it was too much. That was this offseason, with Bass in the final year of his deal.

I think he's still a solid rotational player (who I wish was gone so the younger guys would get more minutes), but his value is virtually nil, unless there's an injury and someone desperately needs a competent fill-in. A second-round pick is about the best we can hope for. Or a generic big body with an expiring contract (which is Perk).

[Smitty77]

My main point of contention with most of your opinions on Bass are that you guys are underestimating GM's opinions of Bass.  He is a true professional who is solid on offense and defense.  I bet you guys were saying the very same things about Jeff Green before the Grantland authors let us know that Green has a stellar reputation throughout the NBA with GM's.  I realize that we often overestimate the worth of OUR players, but I truly think that many are underestimating what many GM's think about Brandon Bass!! 

Not calling anyone an idiot, but Ainge was trying desperately to trade Bass in the offseason, and apparently the closest he got was to the Warriors -- for nothing but a trade exception, which the Warriors eventually decided they'd rather let expire. So we were willing to let him go for literally nothing, but it was too much. That was this offseason, with Bass in the final year of his deal.

I think he's still a solid rotational player (who I wish was gone so the younger guys would get more minutes), but his value is virtually nil, unless there's an injury and someone desperately needs a competent fill-in. A second-round pick is about the best we can hope for. Or a generic big body with an expiring contract (which is Perk).

JJ,

Perhaps I am in denial here, but I really am hard pressed to find any true evidence that Ainge was desparately trying to move Bass in the off season.  We really do NOT know that to be a fact.

Smitty77