Poll

Are we tanking this season?

Yes
41 (44.1%)
No
52 (55.9%)

Total Members Voted: 92

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Re: Are we tanking this year?
« Reply #180 on: October 24, 2014, 03:49:11 PM »

Offline greece66

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I have a question related to whether they should tank or not. If following guys will be
-Smart, an All-star pg
-Young, a Klay Thompson type
-Turner, 75% Pierce
-Sully, putting up David Lee #s
-Olynyk, a healthy Ryan Anderson
-Bradley, a 6th man of the year candidate

do the C's want to tank or get these guys playoff experience as quickly as possible?
I was blinded by the comment on Evan Turner. I will get back to you as soon as I recover.

Re: Are we tanking this year?
« Reply #181 on: October 24, 2014, 04:03:26 PM »

Offline greece66

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I have a question related to whether they should tank or not. If following guys will be
-Smart, an All-star pg
-Young, a Klay Thompson type
-Turner, 75% Pierce
-Sully, putting up David Lee #s
-Olynyk, a healthy Ryan Anderson
-Bradley, a 6th man of the year candidate

do the C's want to tank or get these guys playoff experience as quickly as possible?
OK, now I am back to my senses. I do appreciate your faith in the team, but let's try to be objective for a moment.
-Smart has All Star potential, but he still has a lot to prove.
-Young is one of the youngest players drafted this year (19). He is arguably the most promising of all the guys we have, but he has a long way to go.
-...
-They are quite different players, but I can see what you are getting at (Sully being a 15 PPG 10 RPG player- could happen).
- To be perfectly honest, I haven't watched enough of his games and I answer based on what I just saw on wiki. If what we are talking about is a good stretch four, then yes.
-I think he ll be among the starting 5.
And yes, sure, it would be nice to see these guys getting in the playoffs and get some experience, but do you really think that two rookies, ..., David Lee, Ryan Anderson, and Bradley make a playoff team?

Re: Are we tanking this year?
« Reply #182 on: October 24, 2014, 06:28:25 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I have a question related to whether they should tank or not. If following guys will be
-Smart, an All-star pg
-Young, a Klay Thompson type
-Turner, 75% Pierce
-Sully, putting up David Lee #s
-Olynyk, a healthy Ryan Anderson
-Bradley, a 6th man of the year candidate

do the C's want to tank or get these guys playoff experience as quickly as possible?
OK, now I am back to my senses. I do appreciate your faith in the team, but let's try to be objective for a moment.
-Smart has All Star potential, but he still has a lot to prove.
-Young is one of the youngest players drafted this year (19). He is arguably the most promising of all the guys we have, but he has a long way to go.
-...
-They are quite different players, but I can see what you are getting at (Sully being a 15 PPG 10 RPG player- could happen).
- To be perfectly honest, I haven't watched enough of his games and I answer based on what I just saw on wiki. If what we are talking about is a good stretch four, then yes.
-I think he ll be among the starting 5.
And yes, sure, it would be nice to see these guys getting in the playoffs and get some experience, but do you really think that two rookies, ..., David Lee, Ryan Anderson, and Bradley make a playoff team?
Think you are missing the question. Them reaching those levels wasn't the question. I setup best case scenario of development overtime.  Question is if you knew/believe they would be that would you want them to tank right now (obviously for drafting higher and adding more talent) or would you push for playoffs for experience (which can get them ready to win and improve C's FA draw).
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 06:35:22 PM by Csfan1984 »

Re: Are we tanking this year?
« Reply #183 on: October 24, 2014, 07:16:27 PM »

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Brad Stevens would cut his throat before he would purposely lose a game.  Danny knows this .....and I'm sure he know better than to even suggest such......see the end of last season for proof.

Re: Are we tanking this year?
« Reply #184 on: October 25, 2014, 06:45:19 AM »

Offline greece66

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I have a question related to whether they should tank or not. If following guys will be
-Smart, an All-star pg
-Young, a Klay Thompson type
-Turner, 75% Pierce
-Sully, putting up David Lee #s
-Olynyk, a healthy Ryan Anderson
-Bradley, a 6th man of the year candidate

do the C's want to tank or get these guys playoff experience as quickly as possible?
OK, now I am back to my senses. I do appreciate your faith in the team, but let's try to be objective for a moment.
-Smart has All Star potential, but he still has a lot to prove.
-Young is one of the youngest players drafted this year (19). He is arguably the most promising of all the guys we have, but he has a long way to go.
-...
-They are quite different players, but I can see what you are getting at (Sully being a 15 PPG 10 RPG player- could happen).
- To be perfectly honest, I haven't watched enough of his games and I answer based on what I just saw on wiki. If what we are talking about is a good stretch four, then yes.
-I think he ll be among the starting 5.
And yes, sure, it would be nice to see these guys getting in the playoffs and get some experience, but do you really think that two rookies, ..., David Lee, Ryan Anderson, and Bradley make a playoff team?
Think you are missing the question. Them reaching those levels wasn't the question. I setup best case scenario of development overtime.  Question is if you knew/believe they would be that would you want them to tank right now (obviously for drafting higher and adding more talent) or would you push for playoffs for experience (which can get them ready to win and improve C's FA draw).
Thank you for clarifying this.
Personally, I think playoffs are out of the question anyway.
Anyway,  assuming (for the sake of your argument) we really have the dilemma you describe above, personally I would probably choose to push for playoffs.
But I think Ainge would do otherwise. By this I mean,
- do expect trades similar to those of Lee and Crawford last year. ie  if Ainge can trade say Thornton for future assets/flexibility/young talent he ll do it, even if costs some wins.
-if in the last 10 games of the season we are near the bottom, expect tanking in the most literal sense (ie having our best players sitting on the bench or asking Sully to shoot 10 corner 3's per game).

Re: Are we tanking this year?
« Reply #185 on: October 25, 2014, 09:57:57 AM »

Offline loco_91

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- And yes the draft works- this is how the Bulls got Jordan, OKC Durant, Milwaukee J. Parker. (And we got a certain Larry Bird- maybe you' ve heard of him).


Did you just put Jabari in a sentence with Jordan Durant and Bird?

Re: Are we tanking this year?
« Reply #186 on: October 25, 2014, 02:50:36 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I have a question related to whether they should tank or not. If following guys will be
-Smart, an All-star pg
-Young, a Klay Thompson type
-Turner, 75% Pierce
-Sully, putting up David Lee #s
-Olynyk, a healthy Ryan Anderson
-Bradley, a 6th man of the year candidate

do the C's want to tank or get these guys playoff experience as quickly as possible?
OK, now I am back to my senses. I do appreciate your faith in the team, but let's try to be objective for a moment.
-Smart has All Star potential, but he still has a lot to prove.
-Young is one of the youngest players drafted this year (19). He is arguably the most promising of all the guys we have, but he has a long way to go.
-...
-They are quite different players, but I can see what you are getting at (Sully being a 15 PPG 10 RPG player- could happen).
- To be perfectly honest, I haven't watched enough of his games and I answer based on what I just saw on wiki. If what we are talking about is a good stretch four, then yes.
-I think he ll be among the starting 5.
And yes, sure, it would be nice to see these guys getting in the playoffs and get some experience, but do you really think that two rookies, ..., David Lee, Ryan Anderson, and Bradley make a playoff team?
Think you are missing the question. Them reaching those levels wasn't the question. I setup best case scenario of development overtime.  Question is if you knew/believe they would be that would you want them to tank right now (obviously for drafting higher and adding more talent) or would you push for playoffs for experience (which can get them ready to win and improve C's FA draw).
Thank you for clarifying this.
Personally, I think playoffs are out of the question anyway.
Anyway,  assuming (for the sake of your argument) we really have the dilemma you describe above, personally I would probably choose to push for playoffs.
But I think Ainge would do otherwise. By this I mean,
- do expect trades similar to those of Lee and Crawford last year. ie  if Ainge can trade say Thornton for future assets/flexibility/young talent he ll do it, even if costs some wins.
-if in the last 10 games of the season we are near the bottom, expect tanking in the most literal sense (ie having our best players sitting on the bench or asking Sully to shoot 10 corner 3's per game).
So for you it's a wait and see approach, because deals and other stuff will factor into tanking as of this season no matter the future development. 

I can definitely see that as the call.

Re: Are we tanking this year?
« Reply #187 on: October 27, 2014, 05:45:18 PM »

Offline greece66

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I have a question related to whether they should tank or not. If following guys will be
-Smart, an All-star pg
-Young, a Klay Thompson type
-Turner, 75% Pierce
-Sully, putting up David Lee #s
-Olynyk, a healthy Ryan Anderson
-Bradley, a 6th man of the year candidate

do the C's want to tank or get these guys playoff experience as quickly as possible?
OK, now I am back to my senses. I do appreciate your faith in the team, but let's try to be objective for a moment.
-Smart has All Star potential, but he still has a lot to prove.
-Young is one of the youngest players drafted this year (19). He is arguably the most promising of all the guys we have, but he has a long way to go.
-...
-They are quite different players, but I can see what you are getting at (Sully being a 15 PPG 10 RPG player- could happen).
- To be perfectly honest, I haven't watched enough of his games and I answer based on what I just saw on wiki. If what we are talking about is a good stretch four, then yes.
-I think he ll be among the starting 5.
And yes, sure, it would be nice to see these guys getting in the playoffs and get some experience, but do you really think that two rookies, ..., David Lee, Ryan Anderson, and Bradley make a playoff team?
Think you are missing the question. Them reaching those levels wasn't the question. I setup best case scenario of development overtime.  Question is if you knew/believe they would be that would you want them to tank right now (obviously for drafting higher and adding more talent) or would you push for playoffs for experience (which can get them ready to win and improve C's FA draw).
Thank you for clarifying this.
Personally, I think playoffs are out of the question anyway.
Anyway,  assuming (for the sake of your argument) we really have the dilemma you describe above, personally I would probably choose to push for playoffs.
But I think Ainge would do otherwise. By this I mean,
- do expect trades similar to those of Lee and Crawford last year. ie  if Ainge can trade say Thornton for future assets/flexibility/young talent he ll do it, even if costs some wins.
-if in the last 10 games of the season we are near the bottom, expect tanking in the most literal sense (ie having our best players sitting on the bench or asking Sully to shoot 10 corner 3's per game).
So for you it's a wait and see approach, because deals and other stuff will factor into tanking as of this season no matter the future development. 

I can definitely see that as the call.
If I were to make one last wild guess about what is going on in Ainge's mind. IMHO he's like, let's see what this team can do in the first 20 games. If they can really surprise me by being at 0.450 after the first 20 games, we push for playoffs, if not the trade/tank train is on its way to Boston.
So, yes, I do think there is a certain flexibility involved but it is a pessimistic 10%(we push for playoffs)-90%(we tank big time) rather than the more optimistic accounts people give in the forum.
To put it otherwise, every year one or more teams, improve their last year's record by 20 wins, ie almost every year a team does something similar to what the Suns did last year. But it is very very unlikely that we are this team this year.
PS if you tank, it only makes sense if you tank big time. Worst thing that can happen to you is to finish between 9 and 12th in the Eastern Conference in a year that LAL and Utah will suck big time.
PS 2 Do I feel happy about it? Nope. Not one bit. But it is my honest opinion.

Last counting
« Reply #188 on: October 27, 2014, 05:49:39 PM »

Offline greece66

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So, on 27 Oct at 23.45 (Gr time of course)
59 fellow Celtics fans have cast their vote.
22 (37.3%) including yours truly believe we are tanking this year.
37 (62.7%) believe we are not tanking this year.
Let's see how these numbers evolve through the season.

Re: Are we tanking this year?
« Reply #189 on: October 27, 2014, 05:50:55 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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The thing is, it's possible to believe that we're a bad team and not believe that we're tanking.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Are we tanking this year?
« Reply #190 on: October 27, 2014, 05:55:19 PM »

Offline greece66

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The thing is, it's possible to believe that we're a bad team and not believe that we're tanking.
Have you taken analytic philosophy classes?

Re: Are we tanking this year?
« Reply #191 on: October 27, 2014, 05:57:58 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The thing is, it's possible to believe that we're a bad team and not believe that we're tanking.
Kinda the way I see things.

Re: Are we tanking this year?
« Reply #192 on: October 27, 2014, 05:59:26 PM »

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The thing is, it's possible to believe that we're a bad team and not believe that we're tanking.
Kinda the way I see things.

Pretty much.


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Re: Are we tanking this year?
« Reply #193 on: October 27, 2014, 06:04:23 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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The thing is, it's possible to believe that we're a bad team and not believe that we're tanking.
Have you taken analytic philosophy classes?

I've read some Bertrand Russell in my day. The problem with almost every 'tanking' thread is that no one bothers to define their terms at the outset, so it inevitably denigrates into noise and shouting.

IMO, tanking refers to voiding the team of previously existing talent in an effort to achieve multiple years of high draft picks. The Sixers are a perfect example of that, since they traded away absolutely everyone with any semblance of basketball talent (save Thad Young) after the Bynum experiment didn't work out.

The Celtics aren't doing that, exactly, (and, I would argue, didn't do that when they traded KG and Pierce) but they're certainly not making managerial decisions to optimize the team's ability to win games in the 2014 season, either.

If you think the team is tanking because they're not going out and putting together the absolutely best roster possible, I wouldn't argue with that -- I just don't particularly see that as 'tanking'
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Are we tanking this year?
« Reply #194 on: October 27, 2014, 06:27:21 PM »

Offline BballTim

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The thing is, it's possible to believe that we're a bad team and not believe that we're tanking.
Have you taken analytic philosophy classes?

I've read some Bertrand Russell in my day. The problem with almost every 'tanking' thread is that no one bothers to define their terms at the outset, so it inevitably denigrates into noise and shouting.

IMO, tanking refers to voiding the team of previously existing talent in an effort to achieve multiple years of high draft picks. The Sixers are a perfect example of that, since they traded away absolutely everyone with any semblance of basketball talent (save Thad Young) after the Bynum experiment didn't work out.

The Celtics aren't doing that, exactly, (and, I would argue, didn't do that when they traded KG and Pierce) but they're certainly not making managerial decisions to optimize the team's ability to win games in the 2014 season, either.

If you think the team is tanking because they're not going out and putting together the absolutely best roster possible, I wouldn't argue with that -- I just don't particularly see that as 'tanking'

  I'd say it's making some kind of effort to make your team less competitive in order to improve your draft position. It could be trading away players, it could be sitting them. Just being bad doesn't mean your team is tanking. For instance, the Sixers seem to be tanking, the Pistons looked like they sucked in spite of themselves.