Are we tanking this year?

[Celtics18]

. . . and, it begins anew.

For me, personally, the worst part of being a Celtics fan last year was not the product on the court, but the blatant rooting for losses by a large contingent of the fan base.

Frankly, I found it distasteful, and will continue to find it distasteful this season.  I don't mean to tell anyone how to root for their favorite team, but I just wanted to share my thoughts on the matter.

Like last year, I'll be here to root for my team to win games throughout the season.  I expect bumps, but my commitment to wanting to see the Celtics win every time they play won't waiver.

And, while I may be setting myself up for disappointment, I fully expect this year's team to win considerably more games than last year's squad. 

[wdleehi]

. . . and, it begins anew.

For me, personally, the worst part of being a Celtics fan last year was not the product on the court, but the blatant rooting for losses by a large contingent of the fan base.

Frankly, I found it distasteful, and will continue to find it distasteful this season.  I don't mean to tell anyone how to root for their favorite team, but I just wanted to share my thoughts on the matter.

Like last year, I'll be here to root for my team to win games throughout the season.  I expect bumps, but my commitment to wanting to see the Celtics win every time they play won't waiver.

And, while I may be setting myself up for disappointment, I fully expect this year's team to win considerably more games than last year's squad.

I still think there is a difference between wanting to lose and just have the expectations the team is going lose.


I want to see the Celtics win, I just don't expect it to happen. 

[the_Bird]

. . . and, it begins anew.

For me, personally, the worst part of being a Celtics fan last year was not the product on the court, but the blatant rooting for losses by a large contingent of the fan base.

Frankly, I found it distasteful, and will continue to find it distasteful this season.  I don't mean to tell anyone how to root for their favorite team, but I just wanted to share my thoughts on the matter.

Like last year, I'll be here to root for my team to win games throughout the season.  I expect bumps, but my commitment to wanting to see the Celtics win every time they play won't waiver.

And, while I may be setting myself up for disappointment, I fully expect this year's team to win considerably more games than last year's squad.

You would think, that after the number of times the C's have deliberately decided to suck, throw away whole seasons, and still ended up p---ed off on lotto night that people would be more interested in trying to actually win some games and get better, organically. 

Nope.  "We didn't tank hard enough last year!!!!"  Well, what the Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. good would THAT have done us?

[D.o.s.]

. . . and, it begins anew.

For me, personally, the worst part of being a Celtics fan last year was not the product on the court, but the blatant rooting for losses by a large contingent of the fan base.

Frankly, I found it distasteful, and will continue to find it distasteful this season.  I don't mean to tell anyone how to root for their favorite team, but I just wanted to share my thoughts on the matter.

Like last year, I'll be here to root for my team to win games throughout the season.  I expect bumps, but my commitment to wanting to see the Celtics win every time they play won't waiver.

And, while I may be setting myself up for disappointment, I fully expect this year's team to win considerably more games than last year's squad.

I still think there is a difference between wanting to lose and just have the expectations the team is going lose.


I want to see the Celtics win, I just don't expect it to happen.

Exactly.

[Celtics18]

. . . and, it begins anew.

For me, personally, the worst part of being a Celtics fan last year was not the product on the court, but the blatant rooting for losses by a large contingent of the fan base.

Frankly, I found it distasteful, and will continue to find it distasteful this season.  I don't mean to tell anyone how to root for their favorite team, but I just wanted to share my thoughts on the matter.

Like last year, I'll be here to root for my team to win games throughout the season.  I expect bumps, but my commitment to wanting to see the Celtics win every time they play won't waiver.

And, while I may be setting myself up for disappointment, I fully expect this year's team to win considerably more games than last year's squad.

I still think there is a difference between wanting to lose and just have the expectations the team is going lose.


I want to see the Celtics win, I just don't expect it to happen.

Fair enough.  There are certainly plenty of posters who would prefer to see the team win 25 games to seeing them win 35 games.  And, while I understand the logic in that ("if we aren't likely to make the playoffs, and definitely not likely to be a serious contender if we manage to sneak in, we are better off maximizing our chances at ping pong balls"), I won't subscribe to that way of thinking.

If for no other reason, I'm pretty sure it would suck the joy out of what it means for me to be a sports fan. 

[the_Bird]

...  and no doubt the team's going to struggle this year.  BUT, I think Turner's going to help a lot.  If Rondo's playing up to his (pre-injury) standards, a guard combination of Rondo, Smart, Turner, and AB should be decent.  Turner's all-around ball skillz are something this team desperately needed last year - someone who can just make a play happen.  And if Jeff Green doesn't finally get a fire lit under his ass, Turner can take his minutes at the 3.

in the frontcourt, some solid play by Sully, a little improvement by KO, and some contributions from Zeller and Bass, and maybe we'll be OK.  Impressed with KO's improved team D.

Who knows?  Certainly not a contender, and certainly a team that needs a real go-to scorer.  Turner's probably better in that role that Jeff Green or AB was last year, so that should help.  Maybe they can sneak into the fringes of the playoff race, if a few things go right and if Danny doesn't blow the whole thing up again.

At least they SEEM to be trying to get better.   

[Celtics18]

...  and no doubt the team's going to struggle this year.  BUT, I think Turner's going to help a lot.  If Rondo's playing up to his (pre-injury) standards, a guard combination of Rondo, Smart, Turner, and AB should be decent.  Turner's all-around ball skillz are something this team desperately needed last year - someone who can just make a play happen.  And if Jeff Green doesn't finally get a fire lit under his ass, Turner can take his minutes at the 3.

in the frontcourt, some solid play by Sully, a little improvement by KO, and some contributions from Zeller and Bass, and maybe we'll be OK.  Impressed with KO's improved team D.

Who knows?  Certainly not a contender, and certainly a team that needs a real go-to scorer.  Turner's probably better in that role that Jeff Green or AB was last year, so that should help.  Maybe they can sneak into the fringes of the playoff race, if a few things go right and if Danny doesn't blow the whole thing up again.

At least they SEEM to be trying to get better.

I approve this message.

[D.o.s.]

. . . and, it begins anew.

For me, personally, the worst part of being a Celtics fan last year was not the product on the court, but the blatant rooting for losses by a large contingent of the fan base.

Frankly, I found it distasteful, and will continue to find it distasteful this season.  I don't mean to tell anyone how to root for their favorite team, but I just wanted to share my thoughts on the matter.

Like last year, I'll be here to root for my team to win games throughout the season.  I expect bumps, but my commitment to wanting to see the Celtics win every time they play won't waiver.

And, while I may be setting myself up for disappointment, I fully expect this year's team to win considerably more games than last year's squad.

I still think there is a difference between wanting to lose and just have the expectations the team is going lose.


I want to see the Celtics win, I just don't expect it to happen.

Fair enough.  There are certainly plenty of posters who would prefer to see the team win 25 games to seeing them win 35 games.  And, while I understand the logic in that ("if we aren't likely to make the playoffs, and definitely not likely to be a serious contender if we manage to sneak in, we are better off maximizing our chances at ping pong balls"), I won't subscribe to that way of thinking.

If for no other reason, I'm pretty sure it would suck the joy out of what it means for me to be a sports fan.

I agree with this, too. Openly advocating for tanking seems to be counterproductive at best, and the byproduct of insipid arrogance at worst.

[LarBrd33]

Not intentionally.

There's a handful of borderline starters on this team this year.   We have a lot of them... so I can see how folks would mistakenly believe that lots of borderline starters = success, but that's not really how this league works.  You need a superstar to contend and probably another all-star to be a legit threat.  Just to make the playoffs you need at least an all-star or two.  Say we boil down talent into a basic video game 5 star system.

5 stars - Transcendent superstar. Jordan/Bird/Magic/LeBron/Shaq
4.5 stars - Superstar. Your Chris Paul's.  Wade in his prime.  I think Kobe peaked here.  Garnett probably peaked here.  I think some would argue Durant is on the high end and Love is on the low end.
4 stars - All-stars.   P. George/ Aldridge etc.   Pierce in his peak.  Rondo in his peak.
3.5 stars - Borderline all-stars.   Jeff Green at his peak if we're being super generous.  Rudy Gay.  Mike Conley.  Really good players who don't make all-star teams.
3 stars - Starters. Guys who are a lock to start every year, but aren't stars.  Someone like Kirk Hinrich or Ray Felton.
2.5 stars - Borderline starters/Role Players.  Someone who bounces in and out of bench and starter during their career.  Someone like Mike Miller.  Brandon Bass.   Depending on the team they are starting or coming off the bench.
2 stars - Bench players.  Most of the league.  Guys like Matt Bonner. 
1.5 stars - Scrubs - Should they even be in the NBA? 
1 star - Major scrubs - They shouldn't be in the NBA.  Most of Philly's roster.

So then look at Boston's roster this year.  And feel free to correct me.

PG - Rondo - 3.5 stars
SG - Bradley - 2.5 stars
SF - Green - 3 stars
PF - Sully - 2.5 stars
PF - Oly - 2.5 stars
----
PF - Bass - 2.5 stars
PG/SG Smart - 2.5 stars right now.  Maybe 2
SF Turner - 2.5 stars.  Maybe 3.
SF Wallace - 2 stars 
SG Thornton - 2 stars
PG Pressey - 1.5 stars
C  Zeller - 1.5 stars
SF Young - Prob 1.5 stars right now
Everyone else - prob 1 star

Of course, some of these guys have potential.  Sully/Oly maybe reaches 3.5 eventually. Smart might be a 4 star guy someday.  Who knows with Young.    But as-is, this isn't really an impressive collection of talent.  We aren't intentionally tanking...  This offseason Ainge tried hard to combine a bunch of 2.5 star talent with hopes of landing a 4/4.5 star (Love).  Obviously it wasn't enough.  This roster is filled with redundancies... I'm sure Ainge will jump at any opportunity to combine a few of these 2.5 star borderline starters for a borderline all-star if one becomes available.  We aren't going to try to throw games.  Our weak roster will take care of that for us.

[D.o.s.]

We aren't intentionally tanking... it's just our roster is bad right now.

This is fast becoming the bad basketball equivalent of "its not  you, its me"

[BudweiserCeltic]

Not intentionally.

There's a handful of borderline starters on this team this year.   We have a lot of them... so I can see how folks would mistakenly believe that lots of borderline starters = success, but that's not really how this league works.  You need a superstar to contend and probably another all-star to be a legit threat.  Just to make the playoffs you need at least an all-star or two.  Say we boil down talent into a basic video game 5 star system.

5 stars - Transcendent superstar. Jordan/Magic/LeBron/Shaq
4.5 stars - Superstar. Your Chris Paul's.  Garnett probably peaked here.
4 stars - All-stars.   P. George/ Aldridge etc.   Pierce in his peak.  Rondo in his peak.
3.5 stars - Borderline all-stars.   Jeff Green at his peak if we're being super generous.  Rudy Gay.  Mike Conley.  Really good players who don't make all-star teams.
3 stars - Starters. Guys who are a lock to start every year, but aren't stars.  Someone like Kirk Hinrich or Ray Felton.
2.5 stars - Borderline starters/Role Players.  Someone who bounces in and out of bench and starter during their career.  Someone like Mike Miller.  Brandon Bass.   Depending on the team they are starting or coming off the bench.
2 stars - Bench players.  Most of the league.  Guys like Matt Bonner. 
1.5 stars - Scrubs - Should they even be in the NBA? 
1 star - Major scrubs - They shouldn't be in the NBA.  Most of Philly's roster.

So then look at Boston's roster this year.  And feel free to correct me.

PG - Rondo - 3.5 stars
SG - Bradley - 2.5 stars
SF - Green - 3 stars
PF - Sully - 2.5 stars
PF - Oly - 2.5 stars
----
PF - Bass - 2.5 stars
PG/SG Smart - 2.5 stars right now.  Maybe 2
SF Turner - 2.5 stars.  Maybe 3.
SF Wallace - 2 stars 
SG Thornton - 2 stars
PG Pressey - 1.5 stars
C  Zeller - 1.5 stars
SF Young - Prob 1.5 stars right now
Everyone else - prob 1 star

Of course, some of these guys have potential.  Sully/Oly maybe reaches 3.5 eventually. Smart might be a 4 star guy someday.  Who knows with Young.    But as-is, this isn't really an impressive collection of talent.  We aren't intentionally tanking...  This offseason Ainge tried hard to combine a bunch of 2.5 star talent with hopes of landing a 4/4.5 star (Love).  Obviously it wasn't enough.  This roster is filled with redundancies... I'm sure Ainge will jump at any opportunity to combine a few of these 2.5 star borderline starters for a borderline all-star if one becomes available.  We aren't going to try to throw games.  Our weak roster will take care of that for us.

Since Larry Bird wasn't mentioned above, I'll ignore your whole post!

You've made a mockery of your username.

[LarBrd33]

Bud, I meant to stick him in a tier by himself... 5.5 stars - Basketball Jesus.  Bird stands alone. 

But I fixed it and put him with Jordan/Magic, etc

[Celtics18]

  Say we boil down talent into a basic video game 5 star system.



 

That sums up my basic disagreements with your view on the game of basketball. 

[LarBrd33]

  Say we boil down talent into a basic video game 5 star system.



 

That sums up my basic disagreements with your view on the game of basketball.

That's fair.  I think that's what you said last time I brought this up.   That was back when you were expecting 40+ wins and playoff contention and I was expecting 26 wins based on our garbage roster.    This is obviously very overly simplified, but it's an easy way to come to grips with our team's talent.   The point I'm trying to illustrate is that adding a couple more 2.5 star players isn't going to dramatically improve this team.  Especially considering the 2.5 star talent we've added are positions we arguably are at our strongest (PG and SF).  We're still going to struggle to win 30 games this year. 

[Celtics18]

  Say we boil down talent into a basic video game 5 star system.



 

That sums up my basic disagreements with your view on the game of basketball.

That's fair.  I think that's what you said last time I brought this up.   That was back when you were expecting 40+ wins and playoff contention and I was expecting 26 wins based on our garbage roster.    This is obviously very overly simplified, but it's an easy way to come to grips with our team's talent.   The point I'm trying to illustrate is that adding a couple more 2.5 star players isn't going to dramatically improve this team.  Especially considering the 2.5 star talent we've added are positions we arguably are at our strongest (PG and SF).  We're still going to struggle to win 30 games this year.

Someone bring me that bottle of Nyquil.

And, for the record, I predicted 35+ wins, not 40+ wins.  I was wrong, very wrong, but not as wrong as you are suggesting.

To humor your video game rankings, let me also add that I give Rondo good odds to return to playing like a "four" this year.