Trade idea to make Boston a contender again

[shut_the_gate]

This is obviously has to have a few thing go Boston's way but, I believe if next season Indiana lose Hibbert, they may be primed to lose George. With no one around him he could want out and after resigning Rondo we could be one of a few teams to have a shot at trading for him.

Indiana get: Smart, Green, Sullinger or Olynyk, 16,17,18 Brooklyn pick and our most likely 15 lottery pick

Boston Get: George

Indiana will have a great foundation to build on, especially with the new rules on the lottery weightings and Boston will have a second star to pair with Rondo.

Secondly and again things have to go our way but if Clippers struggle and we can outbid them Deandre Jordan would be the perfect anchor for our defence and with Jordan we could have possibly 4 All NBA defensive players and the best defence in the league. But to have the cap room for Jordan we would have to trade Wallace using all Cleveland's and Clippers picks.

Starting 5:
Jordan
Olynyk or Sullinger
George
Bradley
Rondo

6th man: Young

Hard i know but I'd love some feedback!

[gpap]

It's a good idea.

I don't think Bird deals Paul George as he's viewed as Indiana's franchise player.

However, if the Pacers get off to a slow start, I wouldn't be surprised if they deal Roy Hibbert and David West before the trade deadline.

[Monkhouse]

This is obviously has to have a few thing go Boston's way but, I believe if next season Indiana lose Hibbert, they may be primed to lose George. With no one around him he could want out and after resigning Rondo we could be one of a few teams to have a shot at trading for him.

Indiana get: Smart, Green, Sullinger or Olynyk, 16,17,18 Brooklyn pick and our most likely 15 lottery pick

Boston Get: George

Indiana will have a great foundation to build on, especially with the new rules on the lottery weightings and Boston will have a second star to pair with Rondo.

Secondly and again things have to go our way but if Clippers struggle and we can outbid them Deandre Jordan would be the perfect anchor for our defence and with Jordan we could have possibly 4 All NBA defensive players and the best defence in the league. But to have the cap room for Jordan we would have to trade Wallace using all Cleveland's and Clippers picks.

Starting 5:
Jordan
Olynyk or Sullinger
George
Bradley
Rondo

6th man: Young

Hard i know but I'd love some feedback!

Even if George is disgruntled, I don't see Bird trading him away unless its for another superstar.

If the Pacers don't do well, or Hibbert/West look like they severely declined, I can see one of them being on the way out. Most likely, Hibbert/West will at least be on the trade block for sure considering the fact the Pacers were trying to contend, but this year is a lost cause.

[MBunge]

You are horrifically overvaluing George.  And if we've got George's contract and resign Rondo and keep Bradley, how are we suppose to outbid anyone for Jordan?

Mike

[Endless Paradise]

George just signed a five-year extension that kicks in this season; he's not going anywhere anytime soon, regardless of how he feels about Indiana's chances of immediate contention.  He's locked in with the Pacers for the next three seasons, at the very least.

[nostar]

You are horrifically overvaluing George.

No he's not. Superstars don't grow on trees, ones that just signed 5-year extensions rarely ever (never?) get traded and wings are a very valuable commodity in the NBA as of late. Check out the contracts of Gordon Hayward or Chandler Parsons. Actually I just made a quick chart of the top 100 player salaries and the distribution looks like this:

PG   23%
SG   18%
SF   15%
PF   25%
C   19%

That might seem like wings don't get paid but what it really indicates is that it's the thinnest positions in the NBA talent-wise. If there were more star wings they would be paid. The NBA is full of money to pay productive players. To illustrate this point I took the top 20 salaries and compared the NBA position of those salaries against the top 100. The results are:

17% of the top-20 highest paid players are PGs
11% of the top-20 highest paid players are SGs
33% of the top-20 highest paid players are SFs
24% of the top-20 highest paid players are PFs
16% of the top-20 highest paid players are Cs

Good-to-great SFs in the NBA are paid like crazy because they are unicorns. Where the other positions have a relatively consistent distribution throughout the top 20 and top 100 salaries respectively, SFs have a much higher occurrence of being paid contracts that fall in the top 20 than any other position. Much higher.

George is valuable for so many reasons: elite defense, youth, scoring, size, length, long term contract. His position as a SF is certainly another.

[kozlodoev]

A contender with Young as the 6th man? Ok then...

[MBunge]

You are horrifically overvaluing George.

No he's not.

Yes, he is.

Reality check.  Here are George's per 36 stats last season at 23 years old.

.424 from the field.
.364 from 3.
6.7 rebounds.
3.8 assists.
1.9 steals.
2.8 turnovers.
21.6 points.

Here's 25 year old MVP Kevin Durant's stats last year.

.503 from the field.
.391 from 3.
6.9 rebounds.
5.1 assists.
1.2 steals.
3.3 turnovers.
29.9 points.

Paul George is very good.  He's an all-star.  He is NOT on the same level as Durant or LeBron and, honestly, does anyone think he's going to get to that level?

He suggested giving up a proven starter (Green), two young and very promising lottery picks (Smart and either KO or Sully) and not 1, not 2, not 3 but FOUR 1st round picks, three of which (the Brooklyn pick) have a pretty good chance of being lottery picks.

For Paul George.

Mike

[slamtheking]

You are horrifically overvaluing George.

No he's not.

Yes, he is.

Reality check.  Here are George's per 36 stats last season at 23 years old.

.424 from the field.
.364 from 3.
6.7 rebounds.
3.8 assists.
1.9 steals.
2.8 turnovers.
21.6 points.

Here's 25 year old MVP Kevin Durant's stats last year.

.503 from the field.
.391 from 3.
6.9 rebounds.
5.1 assists.
1.2 steals.
3.3 turnovers.
29.9 points.

Paul George is very good.  He's an all-star.  He is NOT on the same level as Durant or LeBron and, honestly, does anyone think he's going to get to that level?

He suggested giving up a proven starter (Green), two young and very promising lottery picks (Smart and either KO or Sully) and not 1, not 2, not 3 but FOUR 1st round picks, three of which (the Brooklyn pick) have a pretty good chance of being lottery picks.

For Paul George.

Mike

beat me to it.  that's overpayment for anyone not named Lebron or Durant and even then I'd have to be talked into it

[Csfan1984]

They would not have dealt that for Love

[nostar]

It might be an over payment but that is what you'd have to give up to get a superstar in their prime on a long term deal.

I don't know why Mike threw the Kevin Durant strawman in the argument. I never said he was as good as Durant or Lebron. I think that package of picks/players would be laughed at in a Lebron/Durant conversation. Certainly you wouldn't get either of them when they were 23, signed for 5 years and in their prime. Get those fallacious arguments out of here Mike!

George is a top 10 player on a newly signed 5 year max deal. Has that kind of asset ever even been traded before? I can't think of a time.

They would not have dealt that for Love

Trading for Love would have been for 1 guaranteed season of him. From what I read we were willing to give up KO or Sully, our 2014 lotto pick and another 1st for Love on a 1 year deal. Does Smart/Sully/KO and 4 lotto picks sound like too big of a jump from that? It's basically double for a guy who is locked up though his prime.

The hilarious part is that Indiana says no to that truck load of assets. They say no for 2 reasons. First they are a small market team who has a happy superstar signed long term. That is worth so much it's ridiculous. Small markets have trouble attracting free agents so when they get a star they really try to hold on to them. Second, George is sells tickets. That combination of players/picks doesn't. Rebuilding doesn't. Oh did I mention Boston is a small market?

It's George's age, contract and skill level all together that make him worth that ridiculous package and honestly I'm not sure if I'd do it. It's a lot of picks and basically all of our young talent. But to get a superstar signed in their prime isn't a thing you just dismiss. Would you guys trade that package for Anthony Davis on his current deal? How about Davis when he signs his max contract in 2016? That is what we're talking about here.

[kraidstar]

no way do i trade the whole farm for a .428 career shooter coming off a terrible injury.

[MBunge]

George is a top 10 player on a newly signed 5 year max deal. Has that kind of asset ever even been traded before? I can't think of a time.

Bleacher Report projected the top 20 players for the coming season.  http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2138015-re-ranking-the-nbas-top-20-players-mid-2014-offseason-edition

They have George at 18.  Ahead of him are
Noah
Lilard
Rose
Wall
Cousins
Aldridge
Love
Griffin
Kobe
Howard
Westbrook
Carmello
Curry
Davis
CP3
Durant
LeBron

Now, putting Kobe and Curry that far ahead of George is a joke.  The others, even Lilard, are either arguably or without question better/more valuable than George.

I'm not sure why you have such a chubby for Pacers players in your trade proposals but maybe you should take a cold shower and rethink them.

Mike

[nostar]

George is a top 10 player on a newly signed 5 year max deal. Has that kind of asset ever even been traded before? I can't think of a time.

Bleacher Report projected the top 20 players for the coming season.  http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2138015-re-ranking-the-nbas-top-20-players-mid-2014-offseason-edition

They have George at 18.

I'm sure Bleacher Report has him at 18. Espn has him at 10 in PER which has at least some statisical backing as opposed to whatever Adam Fromal thinks. Whatever you think about PER it certainly does show you which players impact the game the most from a statistic standpoint. The crazy part is that one of George's best traits (his length and defense) aren't well quantified in PER (steals I guess). That could actually push him higher than players like Curry, Love, Harden or Nowitski as he plays and elite level of defense in addition to excelling offensively.

I'm not sure why you have such a chubby for Pacers players in your trade proposals but maybe you should take a cold shower and rethink them.

I've made 1 post involving the Pacers on CelticsBlog. In the other thread I was just defending George as an all-NBA player, NBA All star and all NBA defensive player...each of which he's achieved twice in his short 4-year career.

no way do i trade the whole farm for a .428 career shooter coming off a terrible injury.

Finally a reasonable point. Yeah George's injury is worrisome because you really never know how players will come back from a serious injury, especially players who use their athleticism as much as George does. His injury is basically the only reason I would consider not making that huge trade of picks/players for him. On the other hand, his injury might be the only reason that Indiana considers trading him.

[jambr380]

I would have a hard time believing that Indy would just hang up the phone on this offer. Those are some serious assets right there for an all-star who may never be the same again.

Tone this down a little bit and I could get on board, but this really is an all-in move that leaves us pretty thin in the depth department and could set our franchise back for a decade if George doesn't return to form.