not much on thornton firepower off bench

[hwangjini_1]

Zeller had a decent stat line. He is a nice pickup but I'm not sure He is a top 20 center.

The Other 2 were underacheivers. Both have to play well or it could be the end of the NBA dream.

All three have talent to be sure And Should be upgrades as you said.  They have to perform.

Even if Zeller is not a "top 20 center" … he'll be an upgrade defensively at center over last year.

Last year, opposing centers _killed_ us.

I don't like to use PER for very many things, but it's useful for comparing identical roles.

Last year, here are the opposing center PER ratings against our various 'centers':

vs Sully:  18.9
vs Hump:  20.7
vs Olynyk:  24.7
vs Faverani:  20.5
vs Anthony:  18.3  (tiny sample size)

And meanwhile, for Cleveland

vs Zeller:  15.8

Zeller was a full-time center and his number is based on a large sample size.

So, even if Zeller isn't "Top 20" -- he'll still be a huge upgrade in that respect.


All numbers courtesy of 82games.com.

m x 5, good post and good stats. a tp of course.

i am hopeful that zeller will improve the celtics front line and let  sully and olly play pf more. but what really interests me is how CBS will use those three. he is great at maximizing talent, in part by looking at how "sets" of players play together, not simply as individuals.

zeller is multitalented enough that he can contribute a number of ways.

is he a great defender? not so sure about that.

[mmmmm]

Zeller had a decent stat line. He is a nice pickup but I'm not sure He is a top 20 center.

The Other 2 were underacheivers. Both have to play well or it could be the end of the NBA dream.

All three have talent to be sure And Should be upgrades as you said.  They have to perform.

Even if Zeller is not a "top 20 center" … he'll be an upgrade defensively at center over last year.

Last year, opposing centers _killed_ us.

I don't like to use PER for very many things, but it's useful for comparing identical roles.

Last year, here are the opposing center PER ratings against our various 'centers':

vs Sully:  18.9
vs Hump:  20.7
vs Olynyk:  24.7
vs Faverani:  20.5
vs Anthony:  18.3  (tiny sample size)

And meanwhile, for Cleveland

vs Zeller:  15.8

Zeller was a full-time center and his number is based on a large sample size.

So, even if Zeller isn't "Top 20" -- he'll still be a huge upgrade in that respect.


All numbers courtesy of 82games.com.

m x 5, good post and good stats. a tp of course.

i am hopeful that zeller will improve the celtics front line and let  sully and olly play pf more. but what really interests me is how CBS will use those three. he is great at maximizing talent, in part by looking at how "sets" of players play together, not simply as individuals.

zeller is multitalented enough that he can contribute a number of ways.

is he a great defender? not so sure about that.

Yeah - I'm not about to claim he's a "great" defender.

But he seems likely to be at least a "competent" one, and that's a big upgrade over what we had at that spot last year.

I concur with your assessment that Zeller is well-rounded that he should be a good complement to both Sully and Olynyk.  I think the three of them give Brad the ability to put complementary pairs on the floor for a wide variety of situations.

[csfansince60s]

Lots of talk about the defensive trio of RR, AB, and MS eating up guard minutes.

Who is the SG on the "all-scoring" unit, if we were to go offense-defense or whatever?

Or is AB's offense competent enough now to just keep him in there?

With Rondo out, especially, I would expect to see some Smart/Thornton run for at least enough games for Brad to get a good sample.

It might be cool.

If Turner is as good at the P&R as Stevens thinks, I think an interesting group on the floor together would be Bradley/Thornton/Turner.

Turner better with ball in his hands, AB and Thornton not so much, add Green and Olynyk and that's some pretty good O/small ball  lineup.

[More Banners]

See, I like that a lot, but I don't think Bradley is the guy that anchors the 2nd unit, and his passing is just really not up to par with the other guys, including our bigs.

I go with Smart, Thornton, Turner, Sully/Bass, and KO as my 5 to fill it up off the bench, w/o Rondo of course.

And the looks of this lineup are quite enough for me to want to see Bass in for his steady work on BOTH ends with the 2nd unit... But it just oozes with interesting stuff.

Rondo, Bradley, Green, Sully/Bass, and Zeller the presumed starters, of course.

Pressey, Vitor, and Anthony are #11-13.  Wildcard is Young, who could take Thornton's spot altogether.  Haven't seen him play yet to judge, and figure Thornton needs his value boosted sooner.

Any way it gets sliced, Thornton is with Pressey, Vitor, Young, and Anthony: right on the cusp of getting playing time.

With Rondo already injured, routinely-injured Bradley ahead of him, and the injured-during-summer-league Young his competition for minutes on third string, I'd say he has a decent shot at playing time.

[LooseCannon]

I guess you forgot about Wallace.

[More Banners]

I guess you forgot about Wallace.

Yeah, I don't see it going well for him.  15th man-type stuff.  Towel waver.  Practice body, emergency fill-in, veteran voice, but really, he's no higher than 3rd on the depth chart at any position at all from what I can see, barring injury or, apparently, some experiment or whatever.

[LooseCannon]

I see Wallace getting more minutes than Thornton.

[More Banners]

I see Wallace getting more minutes than Thornton.

Probably true, and should be true.

Who is he competing for in terms of minutes?  Already a log jam at the 4, and the 3 looks pretty full, too.

[mgent]

I guess you forgot about Wallace.

There's a decent possibility that Wallace won't be one of the top 10 players on this team. 

[Chris22]

Zeller had a decent stat line. He is a nice pickup but I'm not sure He is a top 20 center.

The Other 2 were underacheivers. Both have to play well or it could be the end of the NBA dream.

All three have talent to be sure And Should be upgrades as you said.  They have to perform.

Even if Zeller is not a "top 20 center" … he'll be an upgrade defensively at center over last year.

Last year, opposing centers _killed_ us.

I don't like to use PER for very many things, but it's useful for comparing identical roles.

Last year, here are the opposing center PER ratings against our various 'centers':

vs Sully:  18.9
vs Hump:  20.7
vs Olynyk:  24.7
vs Faverani:  20.5
vs Anthony:  18.3  (tiny sample size)

And meanwhile, for Cleveland

vs Zeller:  15.8

Zeller was a full-time center and his number is based on a large sample size.

So, even if Zeller isn't "Top 20" -- he'll still be a huge upgrade in that respect.


All numbers courtesy of 82games.com.

Nice post. Tommy point.

[billysan]

Zeller had a decent stat line. He is a nice pickup but I'm not sure He is a top 20 center.

The Other 2 were underacheivers. Both have to play well or it could be the end of the NBA dream.

All three have talent to be sure And Should be upgrades as you said.  They have to perform.

Even if Zeller is not a "top 20 center" … he'll be an upgrade defensively at center over last year.

Last year, opposing centers _killed_ us.

I don't like to use PER for very many things, but it's useful for comparing identical roles.

Last year, here are the opposing center PER ratings against our various 'centers':

vs Sully:  18.9
vs Hump:  20.7
vs Olynyk:  24.7
vs Faverani:  20.5
vs Anthony:  18.3  (tiny sample size)

And meanwhile, for Cleveland

vs Zeller:  15.8

Zeller was a full-time center and his number is based on a large sample size.

So, even if Zeller isn't "Top 20" -- he'll still be a huge upgrade in that respect.


All numbers courtesy of 82games.com.

Nice post. Tommy point.

agreed +1

I read the stats also just wanted to temper expectaions. Improvement at the 5 is the point though.