Author Topic: not much on thornton firepower off bench  (Read 5945 times)

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not much on thornton firepower off bench
« on: October 01, 2014, 11:09:12 AM »

Offline rollie mass

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didn't he avg like 13pts---zeller,turner and thornton seem upgrades from last year and at little cost-

Re: not much on thornton firepower off bench
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2014, 01:14:55 PM »

Offline billysan

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Zeller had a decent stat line. He is a nice pickup but I'm not sure He is a top 20 center.

The Other 2 were underacheivers. Both have to play well or it could be the end of the NBA dream.

All three have talent to be sure And Should be upgrades as you said.  They have to perform.
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Re: not much on thornton firepower off bench
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2014, 01:30:48 PM »

Offline clover

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I get the idea they're skeptical about Thornton's willingness and ability to perform on defense, and there's no reason to play him much at all if he doesn't productively commit there.

Other than Young, they know, however, about all their other guards' commitment to D and team concepts. So I think until Thornton proves otherwise, he's more or less out of the rotation looking in.

Re: not much on thornton firepower off bench
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2014, 01:32:30 PM »

Offline CelticsFanFromNYC

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Thortons the kind of guy whoe any night can go for 20+. Then there are the nights you forget he's on the floor. I havent watched him much to know if he's a liability on defense. Kings barely used him last year but, once he got traded to the nets, Kidd put him on the floor ASAP and he was doing his thing

Re: not much on thornton firepower off bench
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2014, 01:37:31 PM »

Offline Who

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Thornton is a good player but it doesn't look like he'll play much here.

The backcourt situation will largely revolve around Rondo, Smart and Bradley. That is probably 80-90 minutes a game right there. 34-36mpg for Rondo. 27-32mpg for Bradley. 20-25mpg for Smart (who I would like to see play even more than he is likely to get).

After that, there is only a little playing time left over and there are multiple players competing for it so it will probably come down to situational subs (different skill-sets, players chosen for specific game / opponent, not regular rotation) with Marcus Thornton (scorer), Evan Turner (non-scorer, multifaceted role player - sounds like Turner is currently 1st choice), James Young (3+D hopeful) and Phil Pressey (floor general) all competing for that leftover playing time (10-15mpg).

Re: not much on thornton firepower off bench
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2014, 03:20:52 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Zeller had a decent stat line. He is a nice pickup but I'm not sure He is a top 20 center.

The Other 2 were underacheivers. Both have to play well or it could be the end of the NBA dream.

All three have talent to be sure And Should be upgrades as you said.  They have to perform.

Even if Zeller is not a "top 20 center" … he'll be an upgrade defensively at center over last year.

Last year, opposing centers _killed_ us.

I don't like to use PER for very many things, but it's useful for comparing identical roles.

Last year, here are the opposing center PER ratings against our various 'centers':

vs Sully:  18.9
vs Hump:  20.7
vs Olynyk:  24.7
vs Faverani:  20.5
vs Anthony:  18.3  (tiny sample size)

And meanwhile, for Cleveland

vs Zeller:  15.8

Zeller was a full-time center and his number is based on a large sample size.

So, even if Zeller isn't "Top 20" -- he'll still be a huge upgrade in that respect.


All numbers courtesy of 82games.com.
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Re: not much on thornton firepower off bench
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2014, 05:03:17 PM »

Offline manl_lui

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Zeller had a decent stat line. He is a nice pickup but I'm not sure He is a top 20 center.

The Other 2 were underacheivers. Both have to play well or it could be the end of the NBA dream.

All three have talent to be sure And Should be upgrades as you said.  They have to perform.

I agree with you and the OP

we made small improvements compare to last year and Rondo will be 100%

I think Zeller might improve a bit from last year as well judging he is in a better system where he can definitely contribute. We have no real centers, and Cavs at least had Varejao and co.

I am excited to see how Stevens in year two and see what else he brings to the tables...did he make adjustments, new game plan?

Cannot wait for the preseason!

Re: not much on thornton firepower off bench
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2014, 05:22:17 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Maybe Thornton will be this years Jordan Crawford.  Given a chance in a player friendly system, plays at the top of his game long enough to get traded for decent value.

It is a tough call as to whether to play him or not  Certainly while Rondo is hurt, Thornton should be out there.  And even after he gets back, you have to play Smart at SG for there not to be some minutes for Thornton.

If you don't play him, you are essentially conceding that you are stuck with him.

Re: not much on thornton firepower off bench
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2014, 06:32:01 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Maybe Thornton will be this years Jordan Crawford.

His offense and level of defense makes him look more likely to be this year's MarShon Brooks.

Pressey, Turner, and Smart get some combination of the PG minutes while Rondo is out.  Bradley gets the starting minutes at SG.  Turner and Smart get first crack at the minutes that don't go to Bradley.  Putting Green and Wallace on the wings together probably takes precedence over Thornton getting minutes.
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Re: not much on thornton firepower off bench
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2014, 06:32:13 PM »

Offline 2short

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Even with rondo out for a bit I don't see where Thornton can get minutes.  He is a sg only.  So that means he is competing with bradley, smart and turner for pt.  (not even thinking of green)
He has range and isn't afraid to shoot but his defense I think will put him in stevens dog house (see fav)

I think he'll be moved to a team that can use a gunner off the bench.  Package deal anyone?  ;)

Re: not much on thornton firepower off bench
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2014, 07:29:28 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Maybe Thornton will be this years Jordan Crawford.

His offense and level of defense makes him look more likely to be this year's MarShon Brooks.

Pressey, Turner, and Smart get some combination of the PG minutes while Rondo is out.  Bradley gets the starting minutes at SG.  Turner and Smart get first crack at the minutes that don't go to Bradley.  Putting Green and Wallace on the wings together probably takes precedence over Thornton getting minutes.
Yeah, I guess that is where I don't agree.  I don't think they should try to have Smart play 2 positions.  It will be enough to learn one position.  Let him ramp up more slowly with minutes at PG.  Also, I would definitely not play Pressey over Thornton (I know they do not play the same position).  Showcasing Thornton has some potential future value but what good does it do to put Pressey out there.  I like Turner and Bradley as the pre-Rondo starters and then bring in Smart and Thornton.  Thornton is way better than Brooks.

There will be lots of combinations put out there and plenty of chances for Thornton to play his way out of Boston.  He should be motivated.

Re: not much on thornton firepower off bench
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2014, 07:44:45 PM »

Offline bigal534

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because he is FAT

Re: not much on thornton firepower off bench
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2014, 08:41:19 PM »

Offline fantankerous

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Maybe Thornton will be this years Jordan Crawford.

His offense and level of defense makes him look more likely to be this year's MarShon Brooks.

Pressey, Turner, and Smart get some combination of the PG minutes while Rondo is out.  Bradley gets the starting minutes at SG.  Turner and Smart get first crack at the minutes that don't go to Bradley.  Putting Green and Wallace on the wings together probably takes precedence over Thornton getting minutes.

This is right on the money.  Also, I'm not sure that Thornton will prove as easy to flip like Crawford.  First, Thornton's salary will make him much more difficult to move.  The team (presumably a contender) would need ~7million in available contracts, which strikes me as unlikely.  Second, we had to absorb Anthony's contract in the trade to get the return we received.  I doubt Ainge is willing to take on salary for 2015-16 for second round picks this season. 

My hope is to see very little of Thornton on the court and simply letting him walk in the offseason.

Re: not much on thornton firepower off bench
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2014, 09:08:29 PM »

Offline mgent

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Thornton is a good player but it doesn't look like he'll play much here.

The backcourt situation will largely revolve around Rondo, Smart and Bradley. That is probably 80-90 minutes a game right there. 34-36mpg for Rondo. 27-32mpg for Bradley. 20-25mpg for Smart (who I would like to see play even more than he is likely to get).

After that, there is only a little playing time left over and there are multiple players competing for it so it will probably come down to situational subs (different skill-sets, players chosen for specific game / opponent, not regular rotation) with Marcus Thornton (scorer), Evan Turner (non-scorer, multifaceted role player - sounds like Turner is currently 1st choice), James Young (3+D hopeful) and Phil Pressey (floor general) all competing for that leftover playing time (10-15mpg).

I could see something like:

Rondo 33 / Smart 23 / Bradley 26-28 / Thornton 12-14

...with Smart as the primary backup point and Turner as the primary backup SF (especially with Brad so adamant about Green having time at the 4).
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Re: not much on thornton firepower off bench
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2014, 09:30:04 PM »

Offline More Banners

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Lots of talk about the defensive trio of RR, AB, and MS eating up guard minutes.

Who is the SG on the "all-scoring" unit, if we were to go offense-defense or whatever?

Or is AB's offense competent enough now to just keep him in there?

With Rondo out, especially, I would expect to see some Smart/Thornton run for at least enough games for Brad to get a good sample.

It might be cool.