The truth is their is no point for Rondo on this team anymore

[LooseCannon]

i'd respect Rondo way more if he came right out and said he wanted this team to get some players in here.

true leaders do this imo. pierce did similar things in '07. it's the guys that speak up that get things done. the one's that keep quiet and try to just go with the flow and be the "team guy" that get nothing.

look at tom brady, team guy his whole career, stays in line and all that and now look at him. in the 10 plus yrs. he's been the starter only 3 of those have they actually went out and gotten him help. this yr. you'd think he kicked Krafts' dog or something because it looks like they're trying to get him killed.

Well said Warrior!

I had so much respect for Pierce back in 06 and 07 when he was speaking out about wanting better players on the team or he would welcome a trade out of Boston.

That essentially led to Danny Ainge getting off his as* and doing something.

I think Rondo has certainly hinted that he would like better players but I would become his biggest fan if he came out and said:

"Look, either try to get me players to help us compete for a championship OR trade me. It's that simple!"

People keep wanting Rondo to say stuff like that but the league fines players who publicly request a trade.  I think even giving an ultimatum like that is probably something that will also draw a fine.

What if Rondo is willing to give Ainge until most of the way through the 2015 July moratorium before he is decides that he wants out of Boston?

[Vermont Green]

I don't agree with the premise of this thread.

I really don't see any reason to believe that Rondo is NOT needed on this team.

If anything, better players need to be on the team to help compliment Rondo.

The only way I deal Rondo is if we can get another point guard who's a more reliable shooter.

Until then, I'd like to see Rondo in green for a long time.

At the very least, I'd like to see Rondo surrounded with better talent before making a judgement.

Give Rondo a legit big like Gasol or Jordan or Jefferson, and watch how much better the team can become.

PS...I don't see Phil Jackson being interested in Rondo.  Rondo doesn't fit with his style of offense.

Seems to me the OP is arguing Rondo doesn't need this team--not that this team doesn't need Rondo.

Yes, that is a good way to pose the question.  It goes both ways.  Is this the team that Rondo really needs or wants?  I doubt it.

Is Rondo really the player that this team needs?  I am not so sure about that either.  If we get a Kevin Love level player or better, then yes, Rondo would be a good fit.  Short of that though, really?  Offer Rondo the Max and hope he takes it?  Hope Rondo attracts a big name FA?  Is that the plan?

We are more likely to get lucky in the draft I think but there are no sure fire paths for rebuilding no matter what you do.

[perks-a-beast]

The truth is that Rondo isn't going anywhere THIS SEASON. The only teams that would be interested are teams that Rondo can help contend and then resign there next season like Dallas, Houston, and maybe New York. If you think about it, none of those teams can really put together a package for Rondo that would really entice Danny. Rondo will end the season a Celtic, but would be wise to look to go to a contender since he's a FA after this year and isn't getting any younger.

[gpap]

So Rondo not whining through the media shows a lack of leadership. That's a new one. Unreal.

Who said this?

Pretty sure it wasn't me.

[gpap]

i'd respect Rondo way more if he came right out and said he wanted this team to get some players in here.

true leaders do this imo. pierce did similar things in '07. it's the guys that speak up that get things done. the one's that keep quiet and try to just go with the flow and be the "team guy" that get nothing.

look at tom brady, team guy his whole career, stays in line and all that and now look at him. in the 10 plus yrs. he's been the starter only 3 of those have they actually went out and gotten him help. this yr. you'd think he kicked Krafts' dog or something because it looks like they're trying to get him killed.

Well said Warrior!

I had so much respect for Pierce back in 06 and 07 when he was speaking out about wanting better players on the team or he would welcome a trade out of Boston.

That essentially led to Danny Ainge getting off his as* and doing something.

I think Rondo has certainly hinted that he would like better players but I would become his biggest fan if he came out and said:

"Look, either try to get me players to help us compete for a championship OR trade me. It's that simple!"

Do you guys honestly think that Danny Ainge needed Pierce' frustrated comments to motivate him to pull off the Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett trades?

He worked for several years to build up to those moves -- starting well before Pierce' comments.

Considering that we have pretty much zero idea what any of these guys are saying to each other behind closed doors, it seems silly to be holding them to any standard over what they "haven't said".

I don't know that and you don't know that either.

For all we know, Ainge was going to let the team flush down the toilet for several more years
or he was going to trade Pierce and go with the full board youth movement.

No one really knows.

[GreenWarrior]

So Rondo not whining through the media shows a lack of leadership. That's a new one. Unreal.

way to twist that around and not get what I posted. I said i'd have "more" respect for him if he spoke up like Pierce.

I like Rondo but he's saying all the "right" things right now. and that's great, i'm sure he'll make a great Samaritan. but it sounds more like a rehearsed line, and not saying what he'd really like to say. i'd rather hear that.

[CoachBo]

Wait. I thought the solution, as advocated on the front page and across this forum, was to overpay Rondo with the max because ... we can afford it, never mind the sheer fiduciary responsibility of wildly overpaying a player of limited skill set if and when we eventually get a near-max player.

And now, the franchise isn't good enough for him?

You cannot beat Rondo Blog for entertainment.

[BballTim]

i'd respect Rondo way more if he came right out and said he wanted this team to get some players in here.

true leaders do this imo. pierce did similar things in '07. it's the guys that speak up that get things done. the one's that keep quiet and try to just go with the flow and be the "team guy" that get nothing.

look at tom brady, team guy his whole career, stays in line and all that and now look at him. in the 10 plus yrs. he's been the starter only 3 of those have they actually went out and gotten him help. this yr. you'd think he kicked Krafts' dog or something because it looks like they're trying to get him killed.

Well said Warrior!

I had so much respect for Pierce back in 06 and 07 when he was speaking out about wanting better players on the team or he would welcome a trade out of Boston.

That essentially led to Danny Ainge getting off his as* and doing something.

I think Rondo has certainly hinted that he would like better players but I would become his biggest fan if he came out and said:

"Look, either try to get me players to help us compete for a championship OR trade me. It's that simple!"

Do you guys honestly think that Danny Ainge needed Pierce' frustrated comments to motivate him to pull off the Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett trades?

He worked for several years to build up to those moves -- starting well before Pierce' comments.

Considering that we have pretty much zero idea what any of these guys are saying to each other behind closed doors, it seems silly to be holding them to any standard over what they "haven't said".

I don't know that and you don't know that either.

For all we know, Ainge was going to let the team flush down the toilet for several more years
or he was going to trade Pierce and go with the full board youth movement.

No one really knows.

  Danny was talking about gathering chips to trade for stars from pretty much day 1.

[mmmmm]

i'd respect Rondo way more if he came right out and said he wanted this team to get some players in here.

true leaders do this imo. pierce did similar things in '07. it's the guys that speak up that get things done. the one's that keep quiet and try to just go with the flow and be the "team guy" that get nothing.

look at tom brady, team guy his whole career, stays in line and all that and now look at him. in the 10 plus yrs. he's been the starter only 3 of those have they actually went out and gotten him help. this yr. you'd think he kicked Krafts' dog or something because it looks like they're trying to get him killed.

Well said Warrior!

I had so much respect for Pierce back in 06 and 07 when he was speaking out about wanting better players on the team or he would welcome a trade out of Boston.

That essentially led to Danny Ainge getting off his as* and doing something.

I think Rondo has certainly hinted that he would like better players but I would become his biggest fan if he came out and said:

"Look, either try to get me players to help us compete for a championship OR trade me. It's that simple!"

Do you guys honestly think that Danny Ainge needed Pierce' frustrated comments to motivate him to pull off the Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett trades?

He worked for several years to build up to those moves -- starting well before Pierce' comments.

Considering that we have pretty much zero idea what any of these guys are saying to each other behind closed doors, it seems silly to be holding them to any standard over what they "haven't said".

I don't know that and you don't know that either.

For all we know, Ainge was going to let the team flush down the toilet for several more years
or he was going to trade Pierce and go with the full board youth movement.

No one really knows.

What I _know_ is that Ainge had slowly been acquiring various tradable assets for several years and had signed Pierce to a large long-term extension.   All signs pointed towards trading a large wad of those assets in order to acquire top talent to play with Pierce.   Not to wait for those assets to hopefully mature into stars to play with Pierce in his old age.   And if he had wanted to trade Pierce he could have done it before the big contract.

Ainge also knew well in advance that KG would be a potential acquisition target based on the state of his contract.   Every piece that Danny ended up trading for KG was under his control a full season before it happened.

Ray Allen was the only real part that was somewhat of a 'target of opportunity' because that only became possible because (a) Seattle decided to blow it up and (b) we had tanked due to Pierce, Tony Allen and others missing huge chunks of the 2006-07 season.  (Though it could be argued that acquiring Allen was only made necessary because we had tanked.   Ray was acquired to make the team look competitive enough to entice KG.  If we had not tanked (i.e. Pierce & Tony had not gotten hurt) we likely would have looked a lot more competitive even without Ray.)

I'm not asserting that Danny could know for certain that he was going to be able to get KG or any particular 'star' well in advance.  But the idea that he wasn't already fully committed to acquiring top star talent if and when it was within reach without needing a "kick in the pants" from his star player strikes me as nuts.   That's his job.    Like him or not, Danny Ainge has been hyper-competitive in everything he has done professionally, from college athletics, to pro baseball & NBA player, coach and executive.

And similarly, judging Rondo on whether he has or hasn't publicly complained about the roster also strikes me as nuts.

If Rondo HAD whined about the lack of stars around him I'm pretty sure someone on CelticsBlog would be ripping him for doing so.

[Nerf DPOY]

So Rondo not whining through the media shows a lack of leadership. That's a new one. Unreal.

way to twist that around and not get what I posted. I said i'd have "more" respect for him if he spoke up like Pierce.

Your next sentence was "True leaders do this imo". I can accept not believing Rondo has good leadership qualities, but to get on him because he's not openly critical of the direction of team I find baffling. I'm not going to take a poll, but I'm confident not many here would share your sentiment. I think he'd get slaughtered for it.

[GreenWarrior]

So Rondo not whining through the media shows a lack of leadership. That's a new one. Unreal.

way to twist that around and not get what I posted. I said i'd have "more" respect for him if he spoke up like Pierce.

Your next sentence was "True leaders do this imo". I can accept not believing Rondo has good leadership qualities, but to get on him because he's not openly critical of the direction of team I find baffling. I'm not going to take a poll, but I'm confident not many here would share your sentiment. I think he'd get slaughtered for it.

i'm not saying he has to exactly blast the team or the direction or whatever.

for giggles I dug this up:

"It's definitely another year gone by for me," Pierce said. "It's another year we don't get into the postseason. It's another year I don't get recognized for the things I do. I'm the classic case of a great player on a bad team, and it stinks."

Pierce has been a model captain this season. He genuinely enjoyed participating in the development of his younger teammates and has toiled through injuries and frustrations without complaint. He plays hard, he plays hurt, and he has maintained his poise throughout.

But he is tired of waiting for the resurgence of the Celtics. Pierce signed a contract extension last July that locks him up until he's 33. Asked if he regretted signing the deal, which paid him the maximum allowed under the collective bargaining agreement, he merely smiled.

"I'm waiting to see what happens this summer," he said. "We have to see who we keep and who has enough potential trade value to make a difference.

"I'm not talking about winning a few more games. I'm talking about getting into the playoffs, going deep into the playoffs. I don't want to be a team that just sneaks in. I want to be on a team that everyone says before the season, 'This is a team that's going somewhere,' like Detroit.

"Either we go for it, or we don't."


http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2007/03/30/for_pierce_scars_linger_in_painful_celtics_season/?page=full

in retrospect I couldn't imagine Rondo ever saying any of this. it just wouldn't sound right coming from him.

Pierce though? it sounds harsh but was he wrong about what he said?

if after this season Rondo comes out and said something like "if they want me to stay they need to figure out who can and can't play for this team or find some other players that can play"?

then yeah, i'd be ok with it.

[gpap]

So Rondo not whining through the media shows a lack of leadership. That's a new one. Unreal.

way to twist that around and not get what I posted. I said i'd have "more" respect for him if he spoke up like Pierce.

Your next sentence was "True leaders do this imo". I can accept not believing Rondo has good leadership qualities, but to get on him because he's not openly critical of the direction of team I find baffling. I'm not going to take a poll, but I'm confident not many here would share your sentiment. I think he'd get slaughtered for it.

i'm not saying he has to exactly blast the team or the direction or whatever.

for giggles I dug this up:

"It's definitely another year gone by for me," Pierce said. "It's another year we don't get into the postseason. It's another year I don't get recognized for the things I do. I'm the classic case of a great player on a bad team, and it stinks."

Pierce has been a model captain this season. He genuinely enjoyed participating in the development of his younger teammates and has toiled through injuries and frustrations without complaint. He plays hard, he plays hurt, and he has maintained his poise throughout.

But he is tired of waiting for the resurgence of the Celtics. Pierce signed a contract extension last July that locks him up until he's 33. Asked if he regretted signing the deal, which paid him the maximum allowed under the collective bargaining agreement, he merely smiled.

"I'm waiting to see what happens this summer," he said. "We have to see who we keep and who has enough potential trade value to make a difference.

"I'm not talking about winning a few more games. I'm talking about getting into the playoffs, going deep into the playoffs. I don't want to be a team that just sneaks in. I want to be on a team that everyone says before the season, 'This is a team that's going somewhere,' like Detroit.

"Either we go for it, or we don't."


http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2007/03/30/for_pierce_scars_linger_in_painful_celtics_season/?page=full

in retrospect I couldn't imagine Rondo ever saying any of this. it just wouldn't sound right coming from him.

Pierce though? it sounds harsh but was he wrong about what he said?

if after this season Rondo comes out and said something like "if they want me to stay they need to figure out who can and can't play for this team or find some other players that can play"?

then yeah, i'd be ok with it.

Reading that makes me wish Paul was still on this team.

And you and I agree that we don't want to any one player to come out and publicly bash the team, as I see has been misinterpreted.

As fans, we just enjoy when a player publicly express his desire in a civil way for the team to improve because it just shows that he wants to win and not just go through the motions and collect a paycheck.

I don't think Pierce ever once said anything inflammatory about the team during it's lean years (and REALLY lean year in 2006 and 2007.)

[Who]

i'd respect Rondo way more if he came right out and said he wanted this team to get some players in here.

true leaders do this imo. pierce did similar things in '07. it's the guys that speak up that get things done. the one's that keep quiet and try to just go with the flow and be the "team guy" that get nothing.

look at tom brady, team guy his whole career, stays in line and all that and now look at him. in the 10 plus yrs. he's been the starter only 3 of those have they actually went out and gotten him help. this yr. you'd think he kicked Krafts' dog or something because it looks like they're trying to get him killed.

Well said Warrior!

I had so much respect for Pierce back in 06 and 07 when he was speaking out about wanting better players on the team or he would welcome a trade out of Boston.

That essentially led to Danny Ainge getting off his as* and doing something.

I think Rondo has certainly hinted that he would like better players but I would become his biggest fan if he came out and said:

"Look, either try to get me players to help us compete for a championship OR trade me. It's that simple!"

I think there is a point where star players need to speak out and put pressure on front office + ownership to make moves ...

But ...

I don't think Boston is currently at that point. They have just started a rebuilding period 12 months ago. Everyone knows exactly where they stand and what they are trying to do. They just need time to achieve goals.

If, however, things do not change and the team continues to stay in limbo [well outside contender-status] ... then, it is right for a star player to speak out and put pressure on front office and ownership.

I liked it when Pierce did it after a few years of dodgy teams and when Kobe did it after a couple of hard seasons. But in both those cases, it was after 3-4 years of hardship and with the team failing to fulfill promises made to star players over the rebuild & with no real end to rebuilding in sight. In that situation, it is right (and often necessary) for a star player to speak out.

But to do so now in Rondo's situation just 12 months into rebuilding is the wrong moment and is unnecessary. Now is a time for patience and trust -- which Ainge has most definitely earned after building first title winning Celtics team for 20+ years.

[gpap]

i'd respect Rondo way more if he came right out and said he wanted this team to get some players in here.

true leaders do this imo. pierce did similar things in '07. it's the guys that speak up that get things done. the one's that keep quiet and try to just go with the flow and be the "team guy" that get nothing.

look at tom brady, team guy his whole career, stays in line and all that and now look at him. in the 10 plus yrs. he's been the starter only 3 of those have they actually went out and gotten him help. this yr. you'd think he kicked Krafts' dog or something because it looks like they're trying to get him killed.

Well said Warrior!

I had so much respect for Pierce back in 06 and 07 when he was speaking out about wanting better players on the team or he would welcome a trade out of Boston.

That essentially led to Danny Ainge getting off his as* and doing something.

I think Rondo has certainly hinted that he would like better players but I would become his biggest fan if he came out and said:

"Look, either try to get me players to help us compete for a championship OR trade me. It's that simple!"

I think there is a point where star players need to speak out and put pressure on front office + ownership to make moves ...

But ...

I don't think Boston is currently at that point. They have just started a rebuilding period 12 months ago. Everyone knows exactly where they stand and what they are trying to do. They just need time to achieve goals.

If, however, things do not change and the team continues to stay in limbo [well outside contender-status] ... then, it is right for a star player to speak out and put pressure on front office and ownership.

I liked it when Pierce did it after a few years of dodgy teams and when Kobe did it after a couple of hard seasons. But in both those cases, it was after 3-4 years of hardship and with the team failing to fulfill promises made to star players over the rebuild & with no real end to rebuilding in sight. In that situation, it is right (and often necessary) for a star player to speak out.

But to do so now in Rondo's situation just 12 months into rebuilding is the wrong moment and is unnecessary. Now is a time for patience and trust -- which Ainge has most definitely earned after building first title winning Celtics team for 20+ years.

Yeah, I understand this.

That's a reasonable way of looking at it.

Not that Rondo necessarily hasn't but certainly Paulie (and Kobe) did pay their dues before they started speaking out.

Poor Pierce was on some bad teams.

[celtics2030]

i'd respect Rondo way more if he came right out and said he wanted this team to get some players in here.

true leaders do this imo. pierce did similar things in '07. it's the guys that speak up that get things done. the one's that keep quiet and try to just go with the flow and be the "team guy" that get nothing.

look at tom brady, team guy his whole career, stays in line and all that and now look at him. in the 10 plus yrs. he's been the starter only 3 of those have they actually went out and gotten him help. this yr. you'd think he kicked Krafts' dog or something because it looks like they're trying to get him killed.

Well said Warrior!

I had so much respect for Pierce back in 06 and 07 when he was speaking out about wanting better players on the team or he would welcome a trade out of Boston.

That essentially led to Danny Ainge getting off his as* and doing something.

I think Rondo has certainly hinted that he would like better players but I would become his biggest fan if he came out and said:

"Look, either try to get me players to help us compete for a championship OR trade me. It's that simple!"

I think there is a point where star players need to speak out and put pressure on front office + ownership to make moves ...

But ...

I don't think Boston is currently at that point. They have just started a rebuilding period 12 months ago. Everyone knows exactly where they stand and what they are trying to do. They just need time to achieve goals.

If, however, things do not change and the team continues to stay in limbo [well outside contender-status] ... then, it is right for a star player to speak out and put pressure on front office and ownership.

I liked it when Pierce did it after a few years of dodgy teams and when Kobe did it after a couple of hard seasons. But in both those cases, it was after 3-4 years of hardship and with the team failing to fulfill promises made to star players over the rebuild & with no real end to rebuilding in sight. In that situation, it is right (and often necessary) for a star player to speak out.

But to do so now in Rondo's situation just 12 months into rebuilding is the wrong moment and is unnecessary. Now is a time for patience and trust -- which Ainge has most definitely earned after building first title winning Celtics team for 20+ years.

What your not doing though is looking at it from Rondo's point of view.

Your looking at it from a team management point of view.

I am pretty sure Rondo is already at that breaking point.