Author Topic: Tank City USA - Boston  (Read 26094 times)

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Re: Tank City USA - Boston
« Reply #90 on: September 30, 2014, 10:15:20 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Philly has the reigning rookie of the year in MCW, has a guy who very easily could win the rookie of the year in Noel, has another guy that might win the rookie of the year next year (already on the team), one of the best players in Europe, and will very likely have another top 5 pick next year. 

Noel is not going to "easily" win rookie of the year when Jabari Parker, a player vastly superior, is also in the running.  Embiid has about as much chance of never playing a fuly season for Philly as he does winning rookie of the year two seasons down the road.  I believe Ricky Rubio was also "one of the best players in Europe".  And as for that reigning rookie of the year?

Evan Turner per 36 minute stats last season -
.425%
.321% from three
6.5 rebounds
3.8 assists
1 steal
2.8 turnovers
16.6 points

Michael Carter Williams per 36 minute stats last season -
.405%
.264% from three
6.5 rebounds
6.6 assists
1.9 steals
3.7 turnovers
17.4 points

And MCW is three years younger but he's 22 to Turner's 25, so it's not like he's 19 or something.

Mike
here are some other per 36 numbers for R.O.Y. wings (and Lillard since he was the 2nd most recent)

Lillard
17.8 p, 2.9 r, 6.0 a, 0.8 s, 2.8 t, 42.9/36.8

Evans
19.5 p, 5.1 r, 5.6 a, 1.5 s, 2.9 t, 45.8/25.5

Rose
16.3 p, 3.8 r, 6.1 a, 0.8 s, 2.4 t, 47.5/22.2

Durant
21.1 p, 4.5 r, 2.5 a, 1.0 s, 3.0 t, 43.0/28.8

Roy
17.1 p, 4.5 r, 4.1 a, 1.2 s, 2.1 t, 45.6/37.7

James
19.1 p, 5.0 r, 5.4 a, 1.5 s, 3.1 t, 41.7/29.0


I have no idea if MCW will end up more like Tyreke Evans or Lebron James, but to somehow act like his rookies stats are bad by coming him to Evan Turner, doesn't exactly prove your point when he compares very favorably with Lebron James, Kevin Durant, and Derrick Rose's rookie seasons.  I mean unless you don't think the last 6 MVP award winners are good basketball players anyway.

All of those guys, except Roy, came into the league at least 2 years younger than MCW.

When LeBron was MCW's age, he was putting up per 36 stats of 24.1 pts on .476 shooting, .319 from 3.

Rose at 22?  Per 36 of 24.1 pts on .445 shooting, .332 from 3, and 7.4 assists.

Durant at 22?  Per 36 of 25.6 pts on .462 shooting, .350 from 3.

The point isn't that MCW sucks.  The point is that winning the rookie of the year award in one of the weakest rookie classes in at least a decade isn't that big a deal.  And that if MCW gets to be a building block in a potential dynasty at 22, what about Sully (22), KO (22) or Bradley (23)?

Avery Bradley's per 36 stats the past season, when he was one year older than MCW?

17.4 points
.438 from the field
.395 from three
4.4 rebounds
1.6 assists
1.2 steals
1.9 turnovers

Mike
He was a rookie, he wasn't a 4th year player or even a 2nd year player.  You compare rookies to rookies.  Not 24 year olds to 24 year olds.  What does a weak rookie class have to do with his numbers when they compare favorably to the rookie numbers of the last 6 league MVP winners. 

And for the record Lillard was also 22.  He also compares well to Grant Hill, Jason Kidd, and a plethora of other rookies that won rookie of the year at a similar age.

  We'll watch him for a few years and see how he compares to those guys going forward, that should decide things.
I think he is much more a Tyreke Evans, Steve Francis type player than the all timers, but you just never know.  What you do know is, he had a very favorable rookie year to some of the best players in basketball history.  That makes him an excellent prospect and far better than anyone on Boston (aside from a healthy Rondo).
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Re: Tank City USA - Boston
« Reply #91 on: September 30, 2014, 10:15:44 AM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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this team needs to pick a freaking direction. because what we're doing right now is worse than tanking.

at least if we were tanking we would have something to show for it. a high pick. but this game we're playing could land us just out of the playoffs - the worse spot to be in.

sure there's generally good players available throughout the 1st rnd. but if we're going to be "just ok" and get an "ok" pick out of it? why not go all out and optimize you're chance at getting a "great" pick?

Agreed 100 percent!

Right now, I have no clue what direction we're headed in either.

Not bad enough to be in the top 3 of the draft and not good enough to be in the playoffs

So......what's up??

All of this "pick a direction" stuff is reminding me of '05-'07. Personally I never understood the idea of caring to pick an absolute direction. I preferred what DA did back then, and he is doing it again.  This time his pool of young talent is collectively better even if we don't have a singular young talent as good as Al Jefferson right now. Combined with the potential of the Brooklyn picks, and Ainge really doesn't have to pick a direction by throwing Rondo away or making short-sighted moves like adding Asik and nothing else to make a playoff run. Both directions will most likely have us stuck in mediocrity for years because it breeds a culture of losing.

If there are no good/reasonable deals out there to improve this team in the short term and long term, DA won't make the deal. He doesn't care about purely sticking to the extremities of purely tanking. That much is clear from his tenure here.

Also. There is a reason our 06-07 and 13-14 teams didn't fall apart due to chemistry issues like most teams at the bottom of the barrel. It's the culture the front office brings down to the court. We may have sucked in those two years, but the players didn't have a losing mentality. Very important for young players, imo, and I'd rather have that then see the team tank.

Also, if the young players develop on this roster, we are actually good enough to make the playoffs. If Rondo comes in like pre-injury Rondo. Bradley comes back with his all-defensive standards. Smart contends for ROY. Sullinger becomes a consistent 15/10 low-post option with better efficiency than last year. Zeller plays solid positional defense for 20-25 MPG. Olynyk continues his 12/7 production from the post-all star break. Turner is a decent 6th man. Well there you go. There's your direction because that team most likely makes the playoffs because of the development of the young players. Will it happen? No one can say. That's what you get when you pin your hopes on young players who may or may not develop, which would be the case even if we had a top 3 pick on this roster. I have no issue with it, but it's a direction.

Basically the direction is "asset collection mode while maintaining a good culture". It's pretty clear they'll try to win this year, and if they are at the bottom by the deadline, we'll probably finally see real offers for Rondo. I think the front office is giving them a shot this year to see if they can push for the playoffs. The team is much, much, muuuch better balanced than last season.

Dark I think you and I may have had this conversation elsewhere but in general, I agree you about "picking a direction" not being essential here but I do believe whether he wants to or not, Danny is going to eventually reach a fork in the road where he will have to choose eventually. And that point is coming next year. You can't rationalize re-signing Rondo to a near max deal without having a plan to bring more talent in. Problem is, looking out at the horizon, the free agent market looks underwhelming except for a few big men that are likely to stay where they are. There's always the possibility to make trades but other than maybe medium-level moves I don't see where any one is going to be trading KLove-level talent again anytime soon. So if we want upper-echelon talent, that really leaves only one other place: the draft.

I love Rondo but to me this is just the reality of the situation. Given how the cap is going to keep going up, more and more teams are gonna have the money to keep their top guys. I think there will be fewer big name trades. And as Rondo said yesterday, he's not stupid. He can see this team is not a title contender. Guess what? It won't be one next year either. Maybe even the year after that. I'm not sure why Rondo would even want to stay on a team that is still growing and learning to compete when there are teams out there that he could go to that he could take to the next level if he joins them. If Rondo wants to be in the playoffs and compete for titles as much as he says he does, I can't imagine why we would be his first choice right now.
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Re: Tank City USA - Boston
« Reply #92 on: September 30, 2014, 10:27:43 AM »

Offline Moranis

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The only thing that Philly has done so far is put together an all-star team of "potential".  Hasn't paid an ounce of dividends yet unless you count one season's "sucktitude" leading to another high pick of "untapped potential".  On paper it might look good, but it hasn't translated to anything yet.
Yeah but that is a better position than Boston who has an injured older Rondo in the last year of his contract and the possibility that Marcus Smart might be very good.  You know what everyone else is and they aren't superstars.  Philly has the reigning rookie of the year in MCW, has a guy who very easily could win the rookie of the year in Noel, has another guy that might win the rookie of the year next year (already on the team), one of the best players in Europe, and will very likely have another top 5 pick next year. 

Boston doesn't have that.  It has a year where it was a bad team, but not so bad that it could land a top 5 talent (just one less win and the team has Exum - now sure Smart might end up better than Exum, but I think most people right now think Exum is a better prospect).  This year Boston looks to be a 22-28 win team again.  What is the point in that.  Either be very very bad or be good.  This mid level lottery team is just not a position to be in.

That's an awful lot of "might"s and "could"s to give Philly the edge, which is what Dons and I mean about potential being overweighted. 

Here's the case for our side as I see it:

- We have veterans who can help with young player development.  This is the single biggest downside to Philly's approach that gets ignored.  Centering your team around a bunch of rookie contract guys all trying to put up big numbers to cash in on their 2nd contract - guys who also know wins aren't what your organization wants right now - and supplementing them with a bunch of D-Leaguers just clinging to the league is a recipe for terrible habits, selfishness, and discord.  This isn't fantasy ball - environment and culture is crucial for young guys.

- We have assets we haven't used yet, unlike Philly who's completely sold off all their established talent.  There's "potential" that goes unaccounted for - we can still make meaningful trades.

- A "could" on our side - Marcus Smart could also be rookie of the year (which you aren't factoring in) or more importantly, wind up better than whoever wins it. 

- Unlike Philly many of our first round picks aren't based on our own team's performance.  We can play to win and get better and still get good picks if Brooklyn implodes.  We also have many more 1sts than Philly does right now, which gives us more to use in deals and a better chance to take risks later in the round.  Philly has no choice but to suck and then flip the magic "reverse winning %" switch a few years later.

I prefer our position both in the short-term and the long-term.  I think Philly, and people who support Philly's approach, are going to find out over the next few years what the success rate on "might"s and "could"s tends to be.
Philly does have some veterans.  They have Jason Richardson, Mbah a Moute, and our very own Keith Bogans.  And they don't have that many DLeaguers, probably as many as Boston has when all is said and done.  Not that I buy into any of that crap anyway.  The good players learn how to win whether there are veterans there are not.  Bad players, even with veterans around, do not.  I mean Durant (and Green) won 20 and 23 games his first two years, he jumped to 50 in year 3.  His team was mostly rookie year players during that entire time period (a few veterans here and there, but not many).  I mean the 08/09 team that won 23 games had 6 of the 20 players that played for them with more than 5 years experience and only 2 over 10 years (Joe Smith and Malik Rose that played in a combined 56 games).  I think Durant figured it out just fine.  He is clearly not the only example (James in Cleveland, Jordan in Chicago, etc.).  Teams like the ones that Magic, Bird, and Duncan get onto are very rare.  Most of the all time greats start out on bad teams filled with young guys.  I'm certainly not suggesting that Philly has anyone even in the league of those guys, but what I'm suggesting is, veteran influence is a bunch of hog wash.  So is this notion that you have to be on winning teams and that losing is somehow a bad thing.  Sure losing for years on end is bad, but a couple or few losing seasons to start your career is definitely not a bad thing, in fact Cleveland was hurt long term by just how good James made them his rookie year.  Seattle/OKC benefited greatly from those 20 and 23 win seasons as those seasons led to Westbrook and Harden (Ibaka was a later 1st as well during that period and obviously Green came in with Durant). 

As far as playing for contracts, all rookies do that, and almost all that work out end up right back on the team that drafted them.  The difficulty is keeping them for that 3rd contract (see James, Howard, Bosh, etc.).  I mean even Tim Duncan flirted heavily in leaving San An for Orlando at one point.

Philly's vets don't remotely compare with established veteran role players like Joe Smith, Kurt Thomas, Chucky Atkins, Nick Collison, Adrian Griffin, Malik Rose, Earl Watson, Kevin Ollie etc, that surrounded Durant and Westbrook in their first couple of years.  Those guys don't have to play or be great players to teach good habits and a mature approach to the NBA.  But maybe that's just a matter of perception.

And I notice you keep talking about all-time greats, as if Philly has any.  Their young talent doesn't compare with Durant or Westbrook (though I suppose they "could" draft guys like that, or their guys "might" become that good later!) 

We'll have to agree to disagree.  In the meantime, wake me up when Philly's super-optimum strategy results in a better team than ours anywhere outside of a crystal ball.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Philly has a better record than Boston this year.  Of course I really like Noel.  I think he could be a real player.
I think you'd be the only one who wouldn't be surprised.  Philly is devoid of talent.  MCW is in reality an ok PG.  winning ROY in a lackluster draft doesn't really mean much -- particularly when he was on a team where he had to play major minutes.  Noel has no real offense.  if healthy, should be solid on D but the name of the game is outscoring the opposition. 

C's figure to be bad but nowhere near Philly bad.  no one projects to be Philly-bad this year.  Utah, Milwaukee, Orlando and the Lakers - the remaining bottom feeders from last year - all figure to be better. 

I don't think I'll be the only one smiling at the next lottery when Philly achieves it's goal of the worst record and true-to-form the lottery winner is a team that doesn't have the worst record.
James was on a terrible team as a rookie.  Durant was on a terrible team as a rookie.  They had big minutes.  They performed similar to MCW.  On the other side so was Tyreke Evans, and he never really got any better.  As I said in response to Bill, I think MCW is closer to Evans than he is to James, Durant, etc., but you can't really make that call after 1 season.  What if he improves his efficiency and makes strides again this year, then what do you say?  I mean he clearly has talent, he was a McDonald's All American.  He was recruited by a major school.  He played well at said major school.  He then played well in the pros as a rookie, leading his entire draft class in minutes, points, rebounds, and assists.  No matter how weak the draft class, not many players can do that, especially when they compare favorably to some of the best players in history as a rookie.
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Re: Tank City USA - Boston
« Reply #93 on: September 30, 2014, 10:28:35 AM »

Offline MBunge

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He was a rookie, he wasn't a 4th year player or even a 2nd year player.  You compare rookies to rookies.  Not 24 year olds to 24 year olds.  What does a weak rookie class have to do with his numbers when they compare favorably to the rookie numbers of the last 6 league MVP winners. 

And for the record Lillard was also 22.  He also compares well to Grant Hill, Jason Kidd, and a plethora of other rookies that won rookie of the year at a similar age.

So, Greg McDermott should be evaluated EXACTLY like James Young?  They're both rookies after all.

Here's another question.  How many 1st round draft picks DON'T put up decent stats when they're 22-year-old rookies on terrible teams where they get to play 30+ minutes a game?  Check out Michael Beasley's per 36 numbers when he was a rookie.

Mike

Re: Tank City USA - Boston
« Reply #94 on: September 30, 2014, 10:48:04 AM »

Offline MBunge

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I mean he clearly has talent, he was a McDonald's All American.  He was recruited by a major school.  He played well at said major school.  He then played well in the pros as a rookie, leading his entire draft class in minutes, points, rebounds, and assists.  No matter how weak the draft class, not many players can do that, especially when they compare favorably to some of the best players in history as a rookie.

When Tony Allen was a rookie, he was 23 years old and the Celtics won 45 games.  His per 36 stats for that season were...

14 points
.475 from the field
.387 from 3
6.3 rebounds
1.8 assists
2.2 steals
.7 blocks
2.2 turnovers

Anybody think that young TA couldn't have put up something close to those numbers if he'd been on a horrible team where he got to play all the time?

Now, I don't think MCW is just like TA but you can't just dismiss the whole "played on a crappy team so he could put up stats", "comparatively old and therefore more developed than most NBA rookies" and "weakest draft class in a decade" stuff.  That matters when you're evaluating MCW.

Mike

Re: Tank City USA - Boston
« Reply #95 on: September 30, 2014, 10:57:48 AM »

Offline MBunge

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And one more thing.  Here's Bird's per 36 stats as a rookie.

21.3 pts
.475 from the field
.406 from 3
10.4 rebounds
4.5 assists
1.7 steals
.06 blocks
3.2 turnovers

Bird was head and shoulders above the guys listed in this thread as a rookie, including LeBron.  Does it not matter that Bird was as many as 4 years older when he came into the league?

Mike

Re: Tank City USA - Boston
« Reply #96 on: September 30, 2014, 11:19:20 AM »

Offline CelticsFanFromNYC

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And one more thing.  Here's Bird's per 36 stats as a rookie.

21.3 pts
.475 from the field
.406 from 3
10.4 rebounds
4.5 assists
1.7 steals
.06 blocks
3.2 turnovers

Bird was head and shoulders above the guys listed in this thread as a rookie, including LeBron.  Does it not matter that Bird was as many as 4 years older when he came into the league?

Mike

Ridiculous #'s for a rookie! MCW per 36 %'s were pretty low.. I believe even lower than the Evan turners. Its evident MCW has great potential. DOES HIS NUMBERS SCREAM POTENTIAL? Not Exactly.

 If MCW had to start off the bench like Oladipo did his transition to the NBA would've been completely different. Oladipo wouldve put up great #'s as a sixer and would've won the ROY..
Overal!!! STATISTICALLY, MCW  will be good possibly great..  BUT!! Will he have great #'s on a winning or losing team or just be a good fantasy pickup?? Thats the question which will make the big difference.


Re: Tank City USA - Boston
« Reply #97 on: September 30, 2014, 11:25:53 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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I mean he clearly has talent, he was a McDonald's All American.  He was recruited by a major school.  He played well at said major school.  He then played well in the pros as a rookie, leading his entire draft class in minutes, points, rebounds, and assists.  No matter how weak the draft class, not many players can do that, especially when they compare favorably to some of the best players in history as a rookie.

When Tony Allen was a rookie, he was 23 years old and the Celtics won 45 games.  His per 36 stats for that season were...

14 points
.475 from the field
.387 from 3
6.3 rebounds
1.8 assists
2.2 steals
.7 blocks
2.2 turnovers

Anybody think that young TA couldn't have put up something close to those numbers if he'd been on a horrible team where he got to play all the time?

Now, I don't think MCW is just like TA but you can't just dismiss the whole "played on a crappy team so he could put up stats", "comparatively old and therefore more developed than most NBA rookies" and "weakest draft class in a decade" stuff.  That matters when you're evaluating MCW.

Mike
I agree - that stuff only gets dismissed by someone that doesn't want it to matter because it impacts their viewpoint.

Nothing against MCW but I don't think he'll be better than an average PG on a decent team.  IF Philly is lucky, he develops almost to the point of Mo Cheeks talent but I don't see it happening. 

Re: Tank City USA - Boston
« Reply #98 on: September 30, 2014, 11:28:04 AM »

Offline CelticsFanFromNYC

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I mean he clearly has talent, he was a McDonald's All American.  He was recruited by a major school.  He played well at said major school.  He then played well in the pros as a rookie, leading his entire draft class in minutes, points, rebounds, and assists.  No matter how weak the draft class, not many players can do that, especially when they compare favorably to some of the best players in history as a rookie.

When Tony Allen was a rookie, he was 23 years old and the Celtics won 45 games.  His per 36 stats for that season were...

14 points
.475 from the field
.387 from 3
6.3 rebounds
1.8 assists
2.2 steals
.7 blocks
2.2 turnovers

Anybody think that young TA couldn't have put up something close to those numbers if he'd been on a horrible team where he got to play all the time?

Now, I don't think MCW is just like TA but you can't just dismiss the whole "played on a crappy team so he could put up stats", "comparatively old and therefore more developed than most NBA rookies" and "weakest draft class in a decade" stuff.  That matters when you're evaluating MCW.

Mike
I agree - that stuff only gets dismissed by someone that doesn't want it to matter because it impacts their viewpoint.

Nothing against MCW but I don't think he'll be better than an average PG on a decent team.  IF Philly is lucky, he develops almost to the point of Mo Cheeks talent but I don't see it happening.

 I think with MCW's youth and positioning to be forced to lead a team as a floor general, He will be a better version of Shaun Livingston. Livingston could put up MCW #'s if he was starting for Philly

Re: Tank City USA - Boston
« Reply #99 on: September 30, 2014, 04:22:07 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I would take MCW over Young, Zeller, KO and probably AB.

I would not take him over Smart and Sullinger.

Put MCW around some good veteran talent and I think he excels and becomes a great pro.


Also, expect good things from the MCW/Noel combo this year. These guys have been playing ball since teenagers on summer leagues in Boston and on national traveling summer teams. They have built great chemistry on those teams over the years. Big head start for those two that you don't normally see out of 20-22 year olds.

Re: Tank City USA - Boston
« Reply #100 on: September 30, 2014, 04:32:52 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I'm with Mike, I don't think MCW is all that exciting, in fact my suspicion is that he'll be worse as a pro than Tyreke Evans has been so far (and Evans only just turned 25), and I certainly don't think anyone who endorses the Philly methodology should bring him out as a shining example.
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Re: Tank City USA - Boston
« Reply #101 on: October 01, 2014, 03:59:38 AM »

Offline chambers

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A lot of people are ragging on Phillies strategy and team but if you compared their roster to ours, both teams having 'potential' in the sense of what their players might one day achieve as NBA players....I find it pretty reasonable to say that they likely have more All Stars and higher ceilings than our squad.
Obviously that potential has to be reached on both teams but they do have a very nice haul of assets there.
Who on our squad under the age of 25 has the potential to be an All Star vs the philly squad?

Smart
Sullinger
Bradley
James Young
Olynyk.

With sully and smart as the go to guys of potential.

Philly:
Noel
Embid
Mcw
Saric
McDaniels
Jerami Grant

If we had the above rosters swap uniforms and there was no Rondo, I think a lot of critics would be talking about how hopeless the Celtics future would be.
I'll make a topic on the realGM general board for some more opinion but I personally wouldn't be upset with the above roster with those two big men, saric,mcw and a top 4 2015 pick.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Tank City USA - Boston
« Reply #102 on: October 01, 2014, 04:32:50 AM »

Offline DarkAzcura

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A lot of people are ragging on Phillies strategy and team but if you compared their roster to ours, both teams having 'potential' in the sense of what their players might one day achieve as NBA players....I find it pretty reasonable to say that they likely have more All Stars and higher ceilings than our squad.
Obviously that potential has to be reached on both teams but they do have a very nice haul of assets there.
Who on our squad under the age of 25 has the potential to be an All Star vs the philly squad?

Smart
Sullinger
Bradley
James Young
Olynyk.

With sully and smart as the go to guys of potential.

Philly:
Noel
Embid
Mcw
Saric
McDaniels
Jerami Grant

If we had the above rosters swap uniforms and there was no Rondo, I think a lot of critics would be talking about how hopeless the Celtics future would be.
I'll make a topic on the realGM general board for some more opinion but I personally wouldn't be upset with the above roster with those two big men, saric,mcw and a top 4 2015 pick.

If you are going to throw Grant and McDaniels in there, you might as well add Zeller and Powell to the Celtics list. You are right that Philly's roster overall probably has more potential from its young guys, but who knows if it will work out for them. Their organization doesn't have the greatest reputation, and it could fall apart on them in a bad way. I think MCW was overrated his rookie year. Noel will be good, imo. Embiid will be great if he remains injury free, but that is hardly a given unfortunately. Saric? I mean he has good potential, but he's not off the charts or anything. Honestly the main difference maker in terms of potential between the two rosters is Embiid, and he has huge injury question marks. Other than that neither is way ahead of the other in terms of potential. If anything, our guys have more skill, which I appreciate.

Re: Tank City USA - Boston
« Reply #103 on: October 01, 2014, 08:12:02 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I mean he clearly has talent, he was a McDonald's All American.  He was recruited by a major school.  He played well at said major school.  He then played well in the pros as a rookie, leading his entire draft class in minutes, points, rebounds, and assists.  No matter how weak the draft class, not many players can do that, especially when they compare favorably to some of the best players in history as a rookie.

When Tony Allen was a rookie, he was 23 years old and the Celtics won 45 games.  His per 36 stats for that season were...

14 points
.475 from the field
.387 from 3
6.3 rebounds
1.8 assists
2.2 steals
.7 blocks
2.2 turnovers

Anybody think that young TA couldn't have put up something close to those numbers if he'd been on a horrible team where he got to play all the time?

Now, I don't think MCW is just like TA but you can't just dismiss the whole "played on a crappy team so he could put up stats", "comparatively old and therefore more developed than most NBA rookies" and "weakest draft class in a decade" stuff.  That matters when you're evaluating MCW.

Mike
I agree - that stuff only gets dismissed by someone that doesn't want it to matter because it impacts their viewpoint.

Nothing against MCW but I don't think he'll be better than an average PG on a decent team.  IF Philly is lucky, he develops almost to the point of Mo Cheeks talent but I don't see it happening.
Tony Allen played 16.4 minutes a game.  MCW played 34.5.  You can round a guy up a couple of minutes, you can't more than double a guy.  That isn't a clear picture (Allen was of particular a fouling machine often with 4 or 5 fouls in 20 minutes of game action - he even fouled out of a game with just 8 minutes of playing time).  Allen played in just 3 games where he played over 30 minutes and was pretty much no where near those per 36 numbers in those games except for rebounds and steals.

You have to at least be fairly close in your comparisons or you just look silly.
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Re: Tank City USA - Boston
« Reply #104 on: October 01, 2014, 09:25:33 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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A lot of people are ragging on Phillies strategy and team but if you compared their roster to ours, both teams having 'potential' in the sense of what their players might one day achieve as NBA players....I find it pretty reasonable to say that they likely have more All Stars and higher ceilings than our squad.
Obviously that potential has to be reached on both teams but they do have a very nice haul of assets there.
Who on our squad under the age of 25 has the potential to be an All Star vs the philly squad?

Smart
Sullinger
Bradley
James Young
Olynyk.

With sully and smart as the go to guys of potential.

Philly:
Noel
Embid
Mcw
Saric
McDaniels
Jerami Grant

If we had the above rosters swap uniforms and there was no Rondo, I think a lot of critics would be talking about how hopeless the Celtics future would be.
I'll make a topic on the realGM general board for some more opinion but I personally wouldn't be upset with the above roster with those two big men, saric,mcw and a top 4 2015 pick.

Oh, no, the 76ers and the Celtics are both bad. Don't get me wrong, I'm not disputing that.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.