What exactly does James Young bring to the Celtics?

[Celtics4ever]

Fab Melo absolutely had the ability to be a legit NBA player, he just had 0 motivation and a terrible attitude to boot.  If he had worked hard and not been a huge pain in the backside to his coaching staffs, he still might not be ready for a real role, but he'd definitely still be in the league.

Fab Melo was a pee poor college player.  His college stats are underwhelming:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/fab-melo-1.html

Ainge took him because he was high risk and high reward.  Unfortunately, the risk far outweighed the reward in his case.  He was knucklehead in college, played zone, and had demonstrated skill only in blocking shots.   He has horrible hands and was a poor rebounder.   I would not have touched him with a ten pole.

[BballTim]

Fab Melo absolutely had the ability to be a legit NBA player, he just had 0 motivation and a terrible attitude to boot.  If he had worked hard and not been a huge pain in the backside to his coaching staffs, he still might not be ready for a real role, but he'd definitely still be in the league.

Fab Melo was a pee poor college player.  His college stats are underwhelming:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/fab-melo-1.html

Ainge took him because he was high risk and high reward.  Unfortunately, the risk far outweighed the reward in his case.  He was knucklehead in college, played zone, and had demonstrated skill only in blocking shots.   He has horrible hands and was a poor rebounder.   I would not have touched him with a ten pole.

  He was fairly new to the game, wasn't he?

[fairweatherfan]

Fab Melo absolutely had the ability to be a legit NBA player, he just had 0 motivation and a terrible attitude to boot.  If he had worked hard and not been a huge pain in the backside to his coaching staffs, he still might not be ready for a real role, but he'd definitely still be in the league.

Fab Melo was a pee poor college player.  His college stats are underwhelming:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/fab-melo-1.html

Ainge took him because he was high risk and high reward.  Unfortunately, the risk far outweighed the reward in his case.  He was knucklehead in college, played zone, and had demonstrated skill only in blocking shots.   He has horrible hands and was a poor rebounder.   I would not have touched him with a ten pole.

I'm a Syracuse fan, I watched almost every college game he played.  He was deeply flawed but 7 footers with good shotblocking instincts, decent mobility and a fledging jumper don't grow on trees.  But his biggest flaw wasn't on the court, it was constantly drinking away his time off instead of trying to pass classes or improve his game.  Seems like he brought the same mindset to the NBA.  But the potential was absolutely there, still is really but I doubt he'll ever reach it.

[chambers]

What was Danny thinking with this pick? I am finding it hard to justify that he was the best player available. His age?

You were all over the idea of trading Young AND another 1st rounder for Rudy Gobert, who is three years older, could barely get off the bench for a terrible Utah team last season and was the 8th man for France in the Fiba tournament.  Young, at three years younger, played 32 minutes a game for one of the best teams in US college ball, which I think is the third highest level of competition in the world.

Mike

Yes, you're right I was all over the idea of trading Young and a 27th pick for Rudy Gobert and I still am. Because Rudy Gobert, as I mentioned to you in the other post
Rudy Gobert had a 7.4 block percentage as a rookie, which would have easily led the league had he qualified (Anthony Davis and Ibaka held the top spot at 6.7). Gobert's 20.6 total rebounding percentage would have trailed only Andre Drummond (22.3), Jordan (21.6) and Andrew Bogut.

Gobert also graded out as a full-fledged rim protector, not a specialist shot-blocker. Opponents shot just 41.2 percent against him at the rim, via Spor**** player tracking data provided to NBA.com, putting him on a nearly identical level as two-time All-Star Roy Hibbert (41.1).

...Not sure what your point was but anyway I'd love you to provide your own opinion on Celticsblog and Celtics topics/debates rather than worrying about mine in every topic.

 What does James Young bring to the Celtics?

[chambers]

What was Danny thinking with this pick? I am finding it hard to justify that he was the best player available. His age?
James Young does seem to recognize his weaknesses which is a good sign but still...
Is anyone else worried that James Young will be an enormous flop of a pick?
Do we just cross our fingers and hope he 'gets it' after 2-3 seasons?
What is his ceiling?

  One would assume that if you follow the draft at all you could write a similarly critical post about anyone who was drafted at #17. Players taken in that range are probably more likely to average 5ppg or less in their career than 10 points or more. Given that, what exactly constitutes an "enormous flop"?

Yeah you're right, I used the wrong wording for that description-my bad.
I mean 'flop' as in disappointment to Celtics nation but nothing different from the normal career hopes of an 18th pick.

I feel like a lot of people (on Celticsblog) are expecting him to be James Posey at a minimum and it's probably not fair...perhaps a good topic for debate after reading some of these more excited views. I don't share the same opinion and want people to explain why exactly they feel that way.

[krumeto]

I mean you can't expect too much from a 17th pick, but I'm trying to find positive aspects in this kids game.
So far I've come to the conclusion that he has:

Positives:

*Has good size for a wing. has the tools to be a good defender who can shoot over smaller wings.
*can shoot the three when wide open. Likely a lethal three point shooter when open.
*He's very young. Third youngest in draft behind Vonleh and Gordon- so there's time to spend on him and develop the pieces he's missing.
*Has good offensive instincts. Likes to attack the ring after faking the three point shot. Not polished enough to finish regularly yet but those instincts are good for a stretch wing.

Other than that I can't find anything to get excited about.

Glaring weaknesses

*horrid defender. I mean this kid is a worse defender than the rest of the top 20 picks. Quite possibly the worst defender in the first round. Jabari Parker's defense looks solid compared to James Young's defense. I don't just mean 1v1 defense, I mean all over the court in help situations and awareness. He's completely lost.

*does not go right. Defenders basically have to cut off his left hand drive and he'll be stuck.

* No dribble game. Has one move where he goes left off the dribble, but he's so slow that his defenders seem to recover and force him into a bad shot.


Ainge is saying he's definitely a small forward, but he was judged against shooting guards in all the scouting reports. Seems like he's too weak to play small forward.

When we picked him I thought he might be a James Posey or Michael Pietrus potential type guy. The more I watch of him, I'm worried he might be a poor man's James Jones who hits open threes and is a liability on defense.
What was Danny thinking with this pick? I am finding it hard to justify that he was the best player available. His age?
James Young does seem to recognize his weaknesses which is a good sign but still...
Is anyone else worried that James Young will be an enormous flop of a pick?
Do we just cross our fingers and hope he 'gets it' after 2-3 seasons?
What is his ceiling?

1 to 1 the same worries. I could also add that he knew nothing about the Celtics and did not look very sharp (at least to me) during interviews.

I hated the pick but as soon as the season starts I am rooting hard for the kid to grow up and develop into a very good player for us.

[Tr1boy]

James Young is so young also.  Chambers you are making critical points about some parts of his games and haven't even given him a chance to grow.

What you should be happy about is that he helped KU to the finals.  Forget stats for a moment. He helped them get to the finals and he was a key player for KU

You state he can't shoot threes with a hand on his face.  Outside of some guys like Curry, Allen, Bryant who can really do that consistently in the nba anyways?

[Csfan1984]

I think everyone is right in truth. Because Young played young at times. Which is typically weak defense, bad shots along with a lot of flash moments. Literally he produced a NBA level highlight each game so you could see potential. Yet he could have made more shots covered and with guys charging based on his skill level. One thing that I haven't heard much on CB, is how consistent he was as far as production and presence. His coach and teammates did praise him for it and say it was pro like. He brought in the same everyday attitude and play no matter the things going on. And let's not forget in a championship game he was their best player.

[MBunge]

What was Danny thinking with this pick? I am finding it hard to justify that he was the best player available. His age?

You were all over the idea of trading Young AND another 1st rounder for Rudy Gobert, who is three years older, could barely get off the bench for a terrible Utah team last season and was the 8th man for France in the Fiba tournament.  Young, at three years younger, played 32 minutes a game for one of the best teams in US college ball, which I think is the third highest level of competition in the world.

Mike

Yes, you're right I was all over the idea of trading Young and a 27th pick for Rudy Gobert and I still am. Because Rudy Gobert, as I mentioned to you in the other post
Rudy Gobert had a 7.4 block percentage as a rookie, which would have easily led the league had he qualified (Anthony Davis and Ibaka held the top spot at 6.7). Gobert's 20.6 total rebounding percentage would have trailed only Andre Drummond (22.3), Jordan (21.6) and Andrew Bogut.

Gobert also graded out as a full-fledged rim protector, not a specialist shot-blocker. Opponents shot just 41.2 percent against him at the rim, via Spor**** player tracking data provided to NBA.com, putting him on a nearly identical level as two-time All-Star Roy Hibbert (41.1).

...Not sure what your point was but anyway I'd love you to provide your own opinion on Celticsblog and Celtics topics/debates rather than worrying about mine in every topic.

 What does James Young bring to the Celtics?

Here's my point.

Someone who dumps all over a 19-year-old kid before he even steps on an NBA court while simultaneously drooling over a 22-year-old who not only could barely get off the bench for a horrible Utah team last season but couldn't beat out the mighty Joffrey Lauvergne for playing time on France's national team, despite Lauvergne also being just 22, might possibly want to reconsider how they evaluate basketball talent.

You want to talk stats?  Basketball-reference.com says the average Win Share per 48 minutes in the NBA is about .100.  Kelly Olynyk last season racked up a WS per 48 of .101.  Gobert's WS per 48 was .045.  Which means that despite his talent for blocking shots, Rudy Gobert currently SUCKS MONKEY MEAT AT PLAYING BASKETBALL.

Young might be a failure in the NBA.  I can't argue against it because he's only 19 and I don't know how much he can or will get better over the next 3 or 4 years.  But I can't stand to see him trashed by someone who wants to give up the equivalent of two first round picks for Rudy frickin' Gobert.

Mike

[celticmania]

What was Danny thinking with this pick? I am finding it hard to justify that he was the best player available. His age?

You were all over the idea of trading Young AND another 1st rounder for Rudy Gobert, who is three years older, could barely get off the bench for a terrible Utah team last season and was the 8th man for France in the Fiba tournament.  Young, at three years younger, played 32 minutes a game for one of the best teams in US college ball, which I think is the third highest level of competition in the world.

Mike

Yes, you're right I was all over the idea of trading Young and a 27th pick for Rudy Gobert and I still am. Because Rudy Gobert, as I mentioned to you in the other post
Rudy Gobert had a 7.4 block percentage as a rookie, which would have easily led the league had he qualified (Anthony Davis and Ibaka held the top spot at 6.7). Gobert's 20.6 total rebounding percentage would have trailed only Andre Drummond (22.3), Jordan (21.6) and Andrew Bogut.

Gobert also graded out as a full-fledged rim protector, not a specialist shot-blocker. Opponents shot just 41.2 percent against him at the rim, via Spor**** player tracking data provided to NBA.com, putting him on a nearly identical level as two-time All-Star Roy Hibbert (41.1).

...Not sure what your point was but anyway I'd love you to provide your own opinion on Celticsblog and Celtics topics/debates rather than worrying about mine in every topic.

 What does James Young bring to the Celtics?

Here's my point.

Someone who dumps all over a 19-year-old kid before he even steps on an NBA court while simultaneously drooling over a 22-year-old who not only could barely get off the bench for a horrible Utah team last season but couldn't beat out the mighty Joffrey Lauvergne for playing time on France's national team, despite Lauvergne also being just 22, might possibly want to reconsider how they evaluate basketball talent.

You want to talk stats?  Basketball-reference.com says the average Win Share per 48 minutes in the NBA is about .100.  Kelly Olynyk last season racked up a WS per 48 of .101.  Gobert's WS per 48 was .045.  Which means that despite his talent for blocking shots, Rudy Gobert currently SUCKS MONKEY MEAT AT PLAYING BASKETBALL.

Young might be a failure in the NBA.  I can't argue against it because he's only 19 and I don't know how much he can or will get better over the next 3 or 4 years.  But I can't stand to see him trashed by someone who wants to give up the equivalent of two first round picks for Rudy frickin' Gobert.

Mike

Well said

[Csfan1984]

Great points Mike, TP for laying it down.

[biggs]

He brings a well needed lefty to our line up 
I have high hopes for him.  I have a feeling he will be a very good pro as he matures.  Could see him as a Kendall Gill type of ceiling/player.

[Tr1boy]

I actually would like to bring in gobert but not at the expense of giving up young.

[bballdog384]

Fab Melo absolutely had the ability to be a legit NBA player, he just had 0 motivation and a terrible attitude to boot.  If he had worked hard and not been a huge pain in the backside to his coaching staffs, he still might not be ready for a real role, but he'd definitely still be in the league.

Fab Melo was a pee poor college player.  His college stats are underwhelming:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/fab-melo-1.html

Ainge took him because he was high risk and high reward.  Unfortunately, the risk far outweighed the reward in his case.  He was knucklehead in college, played zone, and had demonstrated skill only in blocking shots.   He has horrible hands and was a poor rebounder.   I would not have touched him with a ten pole.

I'm a Syracuse fan, I watched almost every college game he played.  He was deeply flawed but 7 footers with good shotblocking instincts, decent mobility and a fledging jumper don't grow on trees.  But his biggest flaw wasn't on the court, it was constantly drinking away his time off instead of trying to pass classes or improve his game.  Seems like he brought the same mindset to the NBA.  But the potential was absolutely there, still is really but I doubt he'll ever reach it.

I was at Syracuse during Fab Melo's time there - and he greatly improved from his Freshman to Sophomore season. He went from being completely lost to a dominant center at times.

I'm sure this led to Danny taking a risk, and who can blame him with a late first round pick.

[Tr1boy]

Fab Melo absolutely had the ability to be a legit NBA player, he just had 0 motivation and a terrible attitude to boot.  If he had worked hard and not been a huge pain in the backside to his coaching staffs, he still might not be ready for a real role, but he'd definitely still be in the league.

Fab Melo was a pee poor college player.  His college stats are underwhelming:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/fab-melo-1.html

Ainge took him because he was high risk and high reward.  Unfortunately, the risk far outweighed the reward in his case.  He was knucklehead in college, played zone, and had demonstrated skill only in blocking shots.   He has horrible hands and was a poor rebounder.   I would not have touched him with a ten pole.

I'm a Syracuse fan, I watched almost every college game he played.  He was deeply flawed but 7 footers with good shotblocking instincts, decent mobility and a fledging jumper don't grow on trees.  But his biggest flaw wasn't on the court, it was constantly drinking away his time off instead of trying to pass classes or improve his game.  Seems like he brought the same mindset to the NBA.  But the potential was absolutely there, still is really but I doubt he'll ever reach it.

I was at Syracuse during Fab Melo's time there - and he greatly improved from his Freshman to Sophomore season. He went from being completely lost to a dominant center at times.

I'm sure this led to Danny taking a risk, and who can blame him with a late first round pick.

It's the zone defense system that threw everyone off.  Melo would be good in that type of defensive setup (which doesn't work in the nba, 3 sec rule), but failed to understand how to play 1 on 1 defense, nba defense (rotate, when to cheat a little, when to stay put etc.).   He also didn't improve his body enough and was older than most rookies than his age