Author Topic: Strong words from Woj on Coach K and Team U.S.A.  (Read 16403 times)

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Re: Strong words from Woj on Coach K and Team U.S.A.
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2014, 03:35:36 PM »

Offline mgent

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I think you nailed the crux of the argument on the head though, it comes down to should the guys actually playing the game have the right to make the decision and take the risk.  I can understand why owners worry about that type of thing when signing 120 million dollar contracts.  They're allowed to force their guys to not ride motorbikes and other things that an athlete might consider is worth the risk.  It would just be another clause thing like that, if you want your multi-million dollar contract and be a famous NBA player, all you have to do is give up your right for a medal.  If you feel that strongly about it, all you have to do is stay in college until there's a tournament.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Strong words from Woj on Coach K and Team U.S.A.
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2014, 03:57:19 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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I think you nailed the crux of the argument on the head though, it comes down to should the guys actually playing the game have the right to make the decision and take the risk.  I can understand why owners worry about that type of thing when signing 120 million dollar contracts.  They're allowed to force their guys to not ride motorbikes and other things that an athlete might consider is worth the risk.  It would just be another clause thing like that, if you want your multi-million dollar contract and be a famous NBA player, all you have to do is give up your right for a medal.  If you feel that strongly about it, all you have to do is stay in college until there's a tournament.

What they generally don't do is restrict their players from playing basketball, since that is directly related to being good at their jobs.  What's the difference between Paul George breaking his leg in a Team USA exhibition and breaking it in one of those high-level pickup games that happen all summer long?  I don't see much that supports one type of offseason ball being riskier than the other.

Re: Strong words from Woj on Coach K and Team U.S.A.
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2014, 03:57:39 PM »

Offline Granath

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Well, I have some strong words for Woj, you are a piece of crap.

Seriously, why the need to disparage the best basketball coach on any level in all the world? Coach K has earned his respect, what have you earned Woj?

And people wonder why journalists are looked upon with disdain.

+1000

Woj's piece reads like a rambling, incoherent attack article with spurious evidence and even less logic and reason. Disappointing, but unsurprising.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Strong words from Woj on Coach K and Team U.S.A.
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2014, 03:59:02 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I think you nailed the crux of the argument on the head though, it comes down to should the guys actually playing the game have the right to make the decision and take the risk.  I can understand why owners worry about that type of thing when signing 120 million dollar contracts.  They're allowed to force their guys to not ride motorbikes and other things that an athlete might consider is worth the risk.  It would just be another clause thing like that, if you want your multi-million dollar contract and be a famous NBA player, all you have to do is give up your right for a medal.  If you feel that strongly about it, all you have to do is stay in college until there's a tournament.

What they generally don't do is restrict their players from playing basketball, since that is directly related to being good at their jobs.  What's the difference between Paul George breaking his leg in a Team USA exhibition and breaking it in one of those high-level pickup games that happen all summer long?  I don't see much that supports one type of offseason ball being riskier than the other.

Not to mention it would be a PR nightmare. "Oh, you know, NBA SUPERSTAR X really loves 'Murica, but the NBA won't let him play for his country."

Yeah, that would go over really well.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Strong words from Woj on Coach K and Team U.S.A.
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2014, 04:11:18 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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As far as recruiting goes, it's a competitive advantage for Duke. Is that really fair? Up for debate.

As far as the nba goes they don't make much $ here. Fiba does. The nba owners get nothing. Indiana's owner gets a fat absolute zero for having his aging contender lose their best player to a devastating injury.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 04:22:36 PM by Kane3387 »


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Re: Strong words from Woj on Coach K and Team U.S.A.
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2014, 04:14:44 PM »

Offline puskas54_10

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Woj's article is garbage. It's sad because I thought about him as the guy who breaks big news, not who writes shortsighted junk.

Re: Strong words from Woj on Coach K and Team U.S.A.
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2014, 04:27:38 PM »

Offline mgent

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I think you nailed the crux of the argument on the head though, it comes down to should the guys actually playing the game have the right to make the decision and take the risk.  I can understand why owners worry about that type of thing when signing 120 million dollar contracts.  They're allowed to force their guys to not ride motorbikes and other things that an athlete might consider is worth the risk.  It would just be another clause thing like that, if you want your multi-million dollar contract and be a famous NBA player, all you have to do is give up your right for a medal.  If you feel that strongly about it, all you have to do is stay in college until there's a tournament.

What they generally don't do is restrict their players from playing basketball, since that is directly related to being good at their jobs.  What's the difference between Paul George breaking his leg in a Team USA exhibition and breaking it in one of those high-level pickup games that happen all summer long?  I don't see much that supports one type of offseason ball being riskier than the other.
Do you honestly think the best players in the world go all out in summer pickup games?  You think guys are running/falling into the stands?  You honestly don't see the difference between playing against practice bodies who are paid first and foremost to not injury anybody vs. guys who are playing for their country on TV with the chance to be known as the best in the world on the line?
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Strong words from Woj on Coach K and Team U.S.A.
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2014, 04:45:59 PM »

Offline staticcc

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As much as Woj sounds ridiculous here, this isn't coming out of thin air. He is just echoing the sentiments of NBA executives, agents, scouts, etc. His delivery may seem off, but there is some truth to his words.

Woj has a lot of sources, and he is voicing out the opinions of some of these sources.
"The bigger the lie, the more they believe." - Bunk

Re: Strong words from Woj on Coach K and Team U.S.A.
« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2014, 04:59:53 PM »

Offline aporel#18

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Well, it all started in 1988, when Sabonis and co. destroyed the Admiral and the rest of the US kids in Seoul. That opened the door to the US bringing the best team, and that changed everything.

First of all, from a sports perspective, the US obviously wanted to win and show they were the best in basketball... by far, aka the Dream Team.  Then, in 1994, Dream Team II... well, you can go to wikipedia but the US relaxed up to the point where they lost in 2002 and 2004, so they committed to win again. Looking at that, it can go back an forth, the US will have the best talents but if they don't put the best team they can be challenged.

But the big thing isn't about sports. When the Dream Team showed up, it made NBA's business even bigger, it became global. That's why they won't go back to college kids. The under 23 rule for the US might be interesting for competitive purposes, but for every terrible injury like PG's, there are million$ or rea$on$ for the NBA to bring their players to FIBA competitions. Adam Silver had a role in the trophies ceremony, so you can bet the FIBA-NBA business will have a loooong story to go.

All true.

The NBA and some stars used the international competition as the cheapest way possible to advertise the American product.  It may be debatable whether or not the NBA still "needs" FIBA to showcase their product in the modern media and internet age.

AND...

How can it be good for the league, but not good for the owners or players (who take all the risk)?  The league itself isn't at much risk, but individual players and teams are.  Indy had a chance to be a contender, and now they simply don't.  Who makes up for the loss?

NBA doesn't "need" FIBA, but it's a profitable relationship to have FIBA as a big but also little brother. FIBA is big because is the world's basketball authority, while NBA is strictly a business. But FIBA is also little because their competitions act as a huge NBA development league. And the best thing is there are those FIBA championships where people can watch their national teams playing against the best of the NBA, which involves fans from all over the world in a totally different way.

And it's good for the league, because this unfortunate Paul George injury is an accident, which insurance companies will end up managing like they allegedly (although they say Real Madrid hasn't seen an euro for their player's injuries) do in FIFA events. Sadly, NBA players (and other athletes) have serious injuries all the time, and when they've big money guaranteed, it will be easier to find a good way to deal with those unfortunate accidents.

Re: Strong words from Woj on Coach K and Team U.S.A.
« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2014, 05:04:08 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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I think you nailed the crux of the argument on the head though, it comes down to should the guys actually playing the game have the right to make the decision and take the risk.  I can understand why owners worry about that type of thing when signing 120 million dollar contracts.  They're allowed to force their guys to not ride motorbikes and other things that an athlete might consider is worth the risk.  It would just be another clause thing like that, if you want your multi-million dollar contract and be a famous NBA player, all you have to do is give up your right for a medal.  If you feel that strongly about it, all you have to do is stay in college until there's a tournament.

What they generally don't do is restrict their players from playing basketball, since that is directly related to being good at their jobs.  What's the difference between Paul George breaking his leg in a Team USA exhibition and breaking it in one of those high-level pickup games that happen all summer long?  I don't see much that supports one type of offseason ball being riskier than the other.
Do you honestly think the best players in the world go all out in summer pickup games?  You think guys are running/falling into the stands?  You honestly don't see the difference between playing against practice bodies who are paid first and foremost to not injury anybody vs. guys who are playing for their country on TV with the chance to be known as the best in the world on the line?

George got hurt in a scrimmage doing a routine move he very well might've done in a streetball/pickup game solely to draw "oohs" and "aahs" from the crowd.  George's injury was very much so the definition of "freak accident that could've happened playing basketball anywhere."

Re: Strong words from Woj on Coach K and Team U.S.A.
« Reply #40 on: September 15, 2014, 05:37:03 PM »

Offline mgent

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I think you nailed the crux of the argument on the head though, it comes down to should the guys actually playing the game have the right to make the decision and take the risk.  I can understand why owners worry about that type of thing when signing 120 million dollar contracts.  They're allowed to force their guys to not ride motorbikes and other things that an athlete might consider is worth the risk.  It would just be another clause thing like that, if you want your multi-million dollar contract and be a famous NBA player, all you have to do is give up your right for a medal.  If you feel that strongly about it, all you have to do is stay in college until there's a tournament.

What they generally don't do is restrict their players from playing basketball, since that is directly related to being good at their jobs.  What's the difference between Paul George breaking his leg in a Team USA exhibition and breaking it in one of those high-level pickup games that happen all summer long?  I don't see much that supports one type of offseason ball being riskier than the other.
Do you honestly think the best players in the world go all out in summer pickup games?  You think guys are running/falling into the stands?  You honestly don't see the difference between playing against practice bodies who are paid first and foremost to not injury anybody vs. guys who are playing for their country on TV with the chance to be known as the best in the world on the line?

George got hurt in a scrimmage doing a routine move he very well might've done in a streetball/pickup game solely to draw "oohs" and "aahs" from the crowd.  George's injury was very much so the definition of "freak accident that could've happened playing basketball anywhere."
I never said it wasn't. 

Though if we're talking hypotheticals, if he was scrimmaging at his house instead where he was familiar with the court it probably wouldn't have happened.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Strong words from Woj on Coach K and Team U.S.A.
« Reply #41 on: September 15, 2014, 05:38:55 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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As much as Woj sounds ridiculous here, this isn't coming out of thin air. He is just echoing the sentiments of NBA executives, agents, scouts, etc. His delivery may seem off, but there is some truth to his words.

Woj has a lot of sources, and he is voicing out the opinions of some of these sources.

So is Peter King.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Strong words from Woj on Coach K and Team U.S.A.
« Reply #42 on: September 15, 2014, 05:46:30 PM »

Offline mgent

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(For the record, practice facilities/gyms have hanging baskets.  Stanchions are there for big arenas so lots of people can watch.)
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Strong words from Woj on Coach K and Team U.S.A.
« Reply #43 on: September 15, 2014, 05:59:25 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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I think you nailed the crux of the argument on the head though, it comes down to should the guys actually playing the game have the right to make the decision and take the risk.  I can understand why owners worry about that type of thing when signing 120 million dollar contracts.  They're allowed to force their guys to not ride motorbikes and other things that an athlete might consider is worth the risk.  It would just be another clause thing like that, if you want your multi-million dollar contract and be a famous NBA player, all you have to do is give up your right for a medal.  If you feel that strongly about it, all you have to do is stay in college until there's a tournament.

What they generally don't do is restrict their players from playing basketball, since that is directly related to being good at their jobs.  What's the difference between Paul George breaking his leg in a Team USA exhibition and breaking it in one of those high-level pickup games that happen all summer long?  I don't see much that supports one type of offseason ball being riskier than the other.
Do you honestly think the best players in the world go all out in summer pickup games?  You think guys are running/falling into the stands?  You honestly don't see the difference between playing against practice bodies who are paid first and foremost to not injury anybody vs. guys who are playing for their country on TV with the chance to be known as the best in the world on the line?

George got hurt in a scrimmage doing a routine move he very well might've done in a streetball/pickup game solely to draw "oohs" and "aahs" from the crowd.  George's injury was very much so the definition of "freak accident that could've happened playing basketball anywhere."
I never said it wasn't.

So I don't see the point of pointing out how much players feel compelled to go "all out" when that wasn't even really the cause behind the injuries suffered by Team USA this year, including George's.  It was all fairly mundane stuff: losing footing (Kyrie), bad defensive plays by the other team (Gay), a scramble for a loose ball (Cousins).  That last one happens at every single level of play, by the way.

If you're concerned about players getting hurt in the World Cup/Olympics, why not express that same concern for guys playing in pickup games?  If you're playing in a pickup game, your focus is probably more so on entertaining the crowd; you might feel more compelled to do flashier dunks and dribble moves that, while more exciting, could potentially be more dangerous.

Injuries can happen anywhere; there's an inherent risk involved in any physical activity.  I don't think players are necessarily at greater risk playing in international competitions than they are simply playing basketball anywhere.  It just seems like a fairly arbitrary line to draw.

Re: Strong words from Woj on Coach K and Team U.S.A.
« Reply #44 on: September 15, 2014, 06:02:10 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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This is why I hate Woj as a writer.  Molding reality to fit his black and white narrative.
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