Author Topic: True center  (Read 20380 times)

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Re: True center
« Reply #90 on: September 19, 2014, 09:11:40 PM »

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Kosta Koufos is a True Center.

He's not very good, but he's solid. I'd like to have him on board with us. We got Faverani and some.picks we can use to trade for him.
i am not sure i see the logic in spending assets to being in a "true center" who is "not very good." what is the point of spending such resources unless the player in question is able to win games for the celtics.

true center, false center ... the former may not always provide a higher chance of winning than the latter. a pf playing out of position is sometimes better than some players who may qualify as a "true center." there are some pretty marginal centers out there.

looking only at stats, it seems sully plays a better game at center than koufos, and zeller does as well.

i have trouble seeing the advantage in expending many assets to get a third string center who is not very good.

Because he's a proven solid center who has legitimate size and can defend the rim better what we have currently.

His last stint in Denver when he was starting all the games, he averaged 7 rebounds and a block in 22 minutes. As a  backup playing 16 minutes he averaged  5 boards and a block in Memphis.  His Per 36 career is 13/11 rebs/2 blocks.

He's a starting caliber True Center who can produce. Faverani cant give the same production. Having him means we dont have to be at a disadvantage size wise. We dont have to play Sully at Center anymore. He'll also dedend the rim better than who we have right now.

So i say why not. We have SO MANY picks, lets use them even if it means its just a slight upgrade.

I don't think Koufos is a starting caliber center.

I consider Koufos a strong backup center (quality wise). He is passable enough as a temporary starting center if his team lacks a starting caliber center but is unable to keep the position long term. Not enough quality on either end of the floor. Fairly limited player but plays with decent intelligence and good effort.

I would be happy to have Koufos here in Boston. I would not give up any first round picks for him though. I view him solely as a stop-gap measure (as starting center). If Memphis was willing to give him up for a pair of 2nd rounders (and cap filler), I would happily do that.

He did pretty well starting for Denver 2 years ago. He's not going to be All Star level, but he should be a good starter who's grabbing boards and blocking decent amount of shots and providing a presence in the paint.

8 points, 7 rebounds, 1.3 blocks in 22 minutes as a starter, that's solid production. I think he'll be good enough starting for us playing 30 minutes.

I understand why you like him. I don't mind Koufos. Problem is that he's got one year on his deal left and we've already got Zeller. He'd just be a backup for Zeller here and he's expiring, so we'd have another mediocre/borderline starting NBA center taking up minutes of our longer term bigs.
Do we just let him walk at the end of the year?
I wouldn't give up any picks for him.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: True center
« Reply #91 on: September 19, 2014, 09:15:57 PM »

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  • James Naismith
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Kosta Koufos is a True Center.

He's not very good, but he's solid. I'd like to have him on board with us. We got Faverani and some.picks we can use to trade for him.
i am not sure i see the logic in spending assets to being in a "true center" who is "not very good." what is the point of spending such resources unless the player in question is able to win games for the celtics.

true center, false center ... the former may not always provide a higher chance of winning than the latter. a pf playing out of position is sometimes better than some players who may qualify as a "true center." there are some pretty marginal centers out there.

looking only at stats, it seems sully plays a better game at center than koufos, and zeller does as well.

i have trouble seeing the advantage in expending many assets to get a third string center who is not very good.

Because he's a proven solid center who has legitimate size and can defend the rim better what we have currently.

His last stint in Denver when he was starting all the games, he averaged 7 rebounds and a block in 22 minutes. As a  backup playing 16 minutes he averaged  5 boards and a block in Memphis.  His Per 36 career is 13/11 rebs/2 blocks.

He's a starting caliber True Center who can produce. Faverani cant give the same production. Having him means we dont have to be at a disadvantage size wise. We dont have to play Sully at Center anymore. He'll also dedend the rim better than who we have right now.

So i say why not. We have SO MANY picks, lets use them even if it means its just a slight upgrade.

I don't think Koufos is a starting caliber center.

I consider Koufos a strong backup center (quality wise). He is passable enough as a temporary starting center if his team lacks a starting caliber center but is unable to keep the position long term. Not enough quality on either end of the floor. Fairly limited player but plays with decent intelligence and good effort.

I would be happy to have Koufos here in Boston. I would not give up any first round picks for him though. I view him solely as a stop-gap measure (as starting center). If Memphis was willing to give him up for a pair of 2nd rounders (and cap filler), I would happily do that.

He did pretty well starting for Denver 2 years ago. He's not going to be All Star level, but he should be a good starter who's grabbing boards and blocking decent amount of shots and providing a presence in the paint.

8 points, 7 rebounds, 1.3 blocks in 22 minutes as a starter, that's solid production. I think he'll be good enough starting for us playing 30 minutes.

I understand why you like him. I don't mind Koufos. Problem is that he's got one year on his deal left and we've already got Zeller. He'd just be a backup for Zeller here and he's expiring, so we'd have another mediocre/borderline starting NBA center taking up minutes of our longer term bigs.
Do we just let him walk at the end of the year?
I wouldn't give up any picks for him.

I don't consider Zeller part of the Celtics future.

I would be happy to trade Zeller for Koufos if Memphis were so inclined.

Re: True center
« Reply #92 on: September 19, 2014, 09:24:10 PM »

Offline chambers

  • Tiny Archibald
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  • Tommy Points: 943
  • Boston Celtics= Championships, nothing less.
Kosta Koufos is a True Center.

He's not very good, but he's solid. I'd like to have him on board with us. We got Faverani and some.picks we can use to trade for him.
i am not sure i see the logic in spending assets to being in a "true center" who is "not very good." what is the point of spending such resources unless the player in question is able to win games for the celtics.

true center, false center ... the former may not always provide a higher chance of winning than the latter. a pf playing out of position is sometimes better than some players who may qualify as a "true center." there are some pretty marginal centers out there.

looking only at stats, it seems sully plays a better game at center than koufos, and zeller does as well.

i have trouble seeing the advantage in expending many assets to get a third string center who is not very good.

Because he's a proven solid center who has legitimate size and can defend the rim better what we have currently.

His last stint in Denver when he was starting all the games, he averaged 7 rebounds and a block in 22 minutes. As a  backup playing 16 minutes he averaged  5 boards and a block in Memphis.  His Per 36 career is 13/11 rebs/2 blocks.

He's a starting caliber True Center who can produce. Faverani cant give the same production. Having him means we dont have to be at a disadvantage size wise. We dont have to play Sully at Center anymore. He'll also dedend the rim better than who we have right now.

So i say why not. We have SO MANY picks, lets use them even if it means its just a slight upgrade.

I don't think Koufos is a starting caliber center.

I consider Koufos a strong backup center (quality wise). He is passable enough as a temporary starting center if his team lacks a starting caliber center but is unable to keep the position long term. Not enough quality on either end of the floor. Fairly limited player but plays with decent intelligence and good effort.

I would be happy to have Koufos here in Boston. I would not give up any first round picks for him though. I view him solely as a stop-gap measure (as starting center). If Memphis was willing to give him up for a pair of 2nd rounders (and cap filler), I would happily do that.

He did pretty well starting for Denver 2 years ago. He's not going to be All Star level, but he should be a good starter who's grabbing boards and blocking decent amount of shots and providing a presence in the paint.

8 points, 7 rebounds, 1.3 blocks in 22 minutes as a starter, that's solid production. I think he'll be good enough starting for us playing 30 minutes.

I understand why you like him. I don't mind Koufos. Problem is that he's got one year on his deal left and we've already got Zeller. He'd just be a backup for Zeller here and he's expiring, so we'd have another mediocre/borderline starting NBA center taking up minutes of our longer term bigs.
Do we just let him walk at the end of the year?
I wouldn't give up any picks for him.

I don't consider Zeller part of the Celtics future.

I would be happy to trade Zeller for Koufos if Memphis were so inclined.

I think Zeller has a slightly higher ceiling than Koufos.
Per 36 minutes Koufos 13.7 points, 11.2 rebounds.
Per 36 minutes Zeller 13.7 points, 9.7 rebounds.

*Zeller signed for another 2 seasons, Koufos is expiring.
*Zeller one year younger, but only 2 years NBA experience. Koufos 6 years NBA experience.
*Zeller money is $1.7 million vs Koufos $3 million. (not huge but still important).

I'm not claiming Zeller is the next Bill Walton but he's signed for an extra year, he's just put on 15-20 pounds of muscle and I wouldn't be surprised to see him as a 14 point,10 rebound big man that won't protect the rim as well as Koufos, but he'll run the floor harder and get easier buckets.

They're basically a wash for each other but Zeller has more room for improvement. Koufos isn't getting any better after 6 seasons in the NBA. (just my reasoning).
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: True center
« Reply #93 on: September 19, 2014, 09:37:49 PM »

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  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 47135
  • Tommy Points: 2401
Kosta Koufos is a True Center.

He's not very good, but he's solid. I'd like to have him on board with us. We got Faverani and some.picks we can use to trade for him.
i am not sure i see the logic in spending assets to being in a "true center" who is "not very good." what is the point of spending such resources unless the player in question is able to win games for the celtics.

true center, false center ... the former may not always provide a higher chance of winning than the latter. a pf playing out of position is sometimes better than some players who may qualify as a "true center." there are some pretty marginal centers out there.

looking only at stats, it seems sully plays a better game at center than koufos, and zeller does as well.

i have trouble seeing the advantage in expending many assets to get a third string center who is not very good.

Because he's a proven solid center who has legitimate size and can defend the rim better what we have currently.

His last stint in Denver when he was starting all the games, he averaged 7 rebounds and a block in 22 minutes. As a  backup playing 16 minutes he averaged  5 boards and a block in Memphis.  His Per 36 career is 13/11 rebs/2 blocks.

He's a starting caliber True Center who can produce. Faverani cant give the same production. Having him means we dont have to be at a disadvantage size wise. We dont have to play Sully at Center anymore. He'll also dedend the rim better than who we have right now.

So i say why not. We have SO MANY picks, lets use them even if it means its just a slight upgrade.

I don't think Koufos is a starting caliber center.

I consider Koufos a strong backup center (quality wise). He is passable enough as a temporary starting center if his team lacks a starting caliber center but is unable to keep the position long term. Not enough quality on either end of the floor. Fairly limited player but plays with decent intelligence and good effort.

I would be happy to have Koufos here in Boston. I would not give up any first round picks for him though. I view him solely as a stop-gap measure (as starting center). If Memphis was willing to give him up for a pair of 2nd rounders (and cap filler), I would happily do that.

He did pretty well starting for Denver 2 years ago. He's not going to be All Star level, but he should be a good starter who's grabbing boards and blocking decent amount of shots and providing a presence in the paint.

8 points, 7 rebounds, 1.3 blocks in 22 minutes as a starter, that's solid production. I think he'll be good enough starting for us playing 30 minutes.

I understand why you like him. I don't mind Koufos. Problem is that he's got one year on his deal left and we've already got Zeller. He'd just be a backup for Zeller here and he's expiring, so we'd have another mediocre/borderline starting NBA center taking up minutes of our longer term bigs.
Do we just let him walk at the end of the year?
I wouldn't give up any picks for him.

I don't consider Zeller part of the Celtics future.

I would be happy to trade Zeller for Koufos if Memphis were so inclined.

I think Zeller has a slightly higher ceiling than Koufos.
Per 36 minutes Koufos 13.7 points, 11.2 rebounds.
Per 36 minutes Zeller 13.7 points, 9.7 rebounds.

*Zeller signed for another 2 seasons, Koufos is expiring.
*Zeller one year younger, but only 2 years NBA experience. Koufos 6 years NBA experience.
*Zeller money is $1.7 million vs Koufos $3 million. (not huge but still important).

I'm not claiming Zeller is the next Bill Walton but he's signed for an extra year, he's just put on 15-20 pounds of muscle and I wouldn't be surprised to see him as a 14 point,10 rebound big man that won't protect the rim as well as Koufos, but he'll run the floor harder and get easier buckets.

They're basically a wash for each other but Zeller has more room for improvement. Koufos isn't getting any better after 6 seasons in the NBA. (just my reasoning).

I think they are both backup centers long term.

Zeller more useful offensively. Koufos more defensively orientated.

Zeller has talent to be a top backup center someday. Koufos already is one.

So I take Koufos over Zeller.

Re: True center
« Reply #94 on: September 19, 2014, 10:24:08 PM »

Offline chambers

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7482
  • Tommy Points: 943
  • Boston Celtics= Championships, nothing less.
Kosta Koufos is a True Center.

He's not very good, but he's solid. I'd like to have him on board with us. We got Faverani and some.picks we can use to trade for him.
i am not sure i see the logic in spending assets to being in a "true center" who is "not very good." what is the point of spending such resources unless the player in question is able to win games for the celtics.

true center, false center ... the former may not always provide a higher chance of winning than the latter. a pf playing out of position is sometimes better than some players who may qualify as a "true center." there are some pretty marginal centers out there.

looking only at stats, it seems sully plays a better game at center than koufos, and zeller does as well.

i have trouble seeing the advantage in expending many assets to get a third string center who is not very good.

Because he's a proven solid center who has legitimate size and can defend the rim better what we have currently.

His last stint in Denver when he was starting all the games, he averaged 7 rebounds and a block in 22 minutes. As a  backup playing 16 minutes he averaged  5 boards and a block in Memphis.  His Per 36 career is 13/11 rebs/2 blocks.

He's a starting caliber True Center who can produce. Faverani cant give the same production. Having him means we dont have to be at a disadvantage size wise. We dont have to play Sully at Center anymore. He'll also dedend the rim better than who we have right now.

So i say why not. We have SO MANY picks, lets use them even if it means its just a slight upgrade.

I don't think Koufos is a starting caliber center.

I consider Koufos a strong backup center (quality wise). He is passable enough as a temporary starting center if his team lacks a starting caliber center but is unable to keep the position long term. Not enough quality on either end of the floor. Fairly limited player but plays with decent intelligence and good effort.

I would be happy to have Koufos here in Boston. I would not give up any first round picks for him though. I view him solely as a stop-gap measure (as starting center). If Memphis was willing to give him up for a pair of 2nd rounders (and cap filler), I would happily do that.

He did pretty well starting for Denver 2 years ago. He's not going to be All Star level, but he should be a good starter who's grabbing boards and blocking decent amount of shots and providing a presence in the paint.

8 points, 7 rebounds, 1.3 blocks in 22 minutes as a starter, that's solid production. I think he'll be good enough starting for us playing 30 minutes.

I understand why you like him. I don't mind Koufos. Problem is that he's got one year on his deal left and we've already got Zeller. He'd just be a backup for Zeller here and he's expiring, so we'd have another mediocre/borderline starting NBA center taking up minutes of our longer term bigs.
Do we just let him walk at the end of the year?
I wouldn't give up any picks for him.

I don't consider Zeller part of the Celtics future.

I would be happy to trade Zeller for Koufos if Memphis were so inclined.

I think Zeller has a slightly higher ceiling than Koufos.
Per 36 minutes Koufos 13.7 points, 11.2 rebounds.
Per 36 minutes Zeller 13.7 points, 9.7 rebounds.

*Zeller signed for another 2 seasons, Koufos is expiring.
*Zeller one year younger, but only 2 years NBA experience. Koufos 6 years NBA experience.
*Zeller money is $1.7 million vs Koufos $3 million. (not huge but still important).

I'm not claiming Zeller is the next Bill Walton but he's signed for an extra year, he's just put on 15-20 pounds of muscle and I wouldn't be surprised to see him as a 14 point,10 rebound big man that won't protect the rim as well as Koufos, but he'll run the floor harder and get easier buckets.

They're basically a wash for each other but Zeller has more room for improvement. Koufos isn't getting any better after 6 seasons in the NBA. (just my reasoning).

I think they are both backup centers long term.

Zeller more useful offensively. Koufos more defensively orientated.

Zeller has talent to be a top backup center someday. Koufos already is one.

So I take Koufos over Zeller.

Yeah I'd agree with the offense vs defense points.
I'd say that Zeller is likely to be a better player than Koufos, and he's already our asset. We don't have to give anything up for him and he's locked in for at least 2 years on almost half the money that Koufos is making...combine that with his potential and limited years vs Koufos and it's an easy decision for me to stick with Zeller. Koufos is nice but he doesn't make sense for our team when he's got one year left and we already have Zeller.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.