True center

[CelticsFanFromNYC]

You got me,  Duncan, a center that proves my point is wrong.    Splitter, who barely plays for SA? The same guy who was pretty much sat to win the title?

Convincing me that true centers are still valued is going ?o be hard if you are coming at me with the Spurs! They surely help my point more.

I never said a true center can't still help a team win,  i just don't think we NEED one and I don't want one!  There is a thread on this almost every other day.

Now,  I also didn't say Sully was good enough yet but he can be good enough in time!  Our perimeter defense has to be top notch and I believe we have the opportunity for that eventually. Again, he doesn't want to be a center so that's w/e.

If we do pick up a true center, it doesn't mean I think we can't win with him, I just think a PF masquerading as one is a better option with the way the NBA is leaning.

No center means your team is going to get destroyed in rebounding.

My philosophy is no center, no championship.

A power forward masquerading as a center is not going to accomplish anything.

I just checked no Anderson so is 2010 Miami Heat an exception as well?

[gpap]

Was Chris Anderson on the Heat the 1st year they won? if not I don't believe they had any legitimate centers

I don't believe he was but don't forget they were also playing the Thunder in the finals and from what I remember, Perkins looked absolutely awful.

Thus OKC was relatively useless in the paint (and plus if I recall, Harden laid an egg in that series as well.)

[CelticsFanFromNYC]

... Unless you're San Antonio.

Then how did San Antonio win the championship?

Voodoo.

The same voodoo the Celts were using in 2008, which they called Ubuntu? (lol.)

Maybe when I mentioned San Antonio earlier in this thread as trying to state my case for why you NEED a legit center, I wasn't clear with what I was trying to state.

Like you mentioned, sure guys like Duncan, Splitter, Diaw technically aren't centers, they're power forwards.

BUT, from what I saw in the finals, they still outmuscled the Heat's big guys like Bosh, Birdman, Rashard Lewis, Battier, etc.

PLUS, the Heat didn't really have a legit center of their own to begin with (as all the guys that I just mentioned are also technically fowards.)

So, maybe the Spurs don't have your prototypical "big man" but their bigs still outplayed the Heat's bigs in the paint.

Granted, Parker, Ginobli, Danny Green and Leonard also contributed HUGE from outside the perimeter (and particularly Leonard's defense on Lebron.)

I guess what I am trying to say is there aren't many true centers in the league but the team with the more productive guys in the paint (that score, block, rebound, etc) is going to win.

sorry just saw your post

[gpap]

... Unless you're San Antonio.

Then how did San Antonio win the championship?

Voodoo.

Maybe when I mentioned San Antonio earlier in this thread as trying to state my case for why you NEED a legit center, I wasn't clear with what I was trying to state.

Like you mentioned, sure guys like Duncan, Splitter, Diaw technically aren't centers, they're power forwards.

BUT, from what I saw in the finals, they still outmuscled the Heat's big guys like Bosh, Birdman, Rashard Lewis, Battier, etc.

PLUS, the Heat didn't really have a legit center of their own to begin with (as all the guys that I just mentioned are also technically fowards.)

So, maybe the Spurs don't have your prototypical "big man" but their bigs still outplayed the Heat's bigs in the paint.

Ok, so the hypothesis is now a team with players that play better than the players on the other team, that first team will win?

I can get behind that.

I revised my post, see below.

Maybe when I mentioned San Antonio earlier in this thread as trying to state my case for why you NEED a legit center, I wasn't clear with what I was trying to state.

Like you mentioned, sure guys like Duncan, Splitter, Diaw technically aren't centers, they're power forwards.

BUT, from what I saw in the finals, they still outmuscled the Heat's big guys like Bosh, Birdman, Rashard Lewis, Battier, etc.

PLUS, the Heat didn't really have a legit center of their own to begin with (as all the guys that I just mentioned are also technically fowards.)

So, maybe the Spurs don't have your prototypical "big man" but their bigs still outplayed the Heat's bigs in the paint.

Granted, Parker, Ginobli, Danny Green and Leonard also contributed HUGE from outside the perimeter (and particularly Leonard's defense on Lebron.)

I guess what I am trying to say is there aren't many true centers in the league but the team with the more productive guys in the paint (that score, block, rebound, etc) is going to win.

[GetLucky]

I was talking to Dave Hopla over the summer (he is the best shooter I have ever seen; he trains with Ray Allen and lots of others), and in his opinion there are only two true centers in the league:
1. Al Jefferson (excels on offense, but still plays O and D as traditional center)
2. Roy Hibbert (when he doesn't have his talent stolen by aliens) so 1/2
3. Dwight Howard on defense (when he's not smiling) 1/2.

He said that only Bid Al is consistent and a "true center," Hibbert has too many problems, and Dwight is a goof.

[CelticsFanFromNYC]

Was Bynum there for both finals the lakers won? Or do people claim pau as a a center as well?

[gpap]

Was Bynum there for both finals the lakers won? Or do people claim pau as a a center as well?

Glad you brought that up.

In 2008, when the Celts dismantled LA, Bynum was not playing.

However, in 2009 and 2010 when LA came back to win back to back 'ships, Bynum was playing and Gasol looked alot more comfortable and aggressive than he was in 2008 when KG absolutely manhandled him.

With two effective big guys like Bynum and Gasol and with us losing Perk, it's really no wonder we lost to LA in 2010 (and yes, I agree the officiating and Ray Allen's putrid offense didn't help.)

[Celtics4ever]

I was talking to Dave Hopla over the summer (he is the best shooter I have ever seen; he trains with Ray Allen and lots of others), and in his opinion there are only two true centers in the league

What is DeMarcus Cousins then?

[GetLucky]

I was talking to Dave Hopla over the summer (he is the best shooter I have ever seen; he trains with Ray Allen and lots of others), and in his opinion there are only two true centers in the league

What is DeMarcus Cousins then?

This was kind of a causal talk; it was off the top of his head. But if I had to guess, he would probably claim Cousin's natural position is power forward since he has a more polished face-up and pick and roll game in addition to his defense being more well-rounded than rim protector. Hopla's view of a "true center" was very traditional- near the basket and tall. Cousins is a more Neo-Age center that favors jumpers and face-ups and steals over post-ups and blocks.

I agreed with what he said though. He said center is all work and mentality. He said Big Al is the only guy in the league willing to battle down low on both ends for the whole game. He said Hibbert seemed to be that guy before he fell off a cliff, and Dwight is that guy on defense. But he's too mentally weak to buy in offensively, and sometimes his weak mentality affects his defense.

[LooseCannon]

You don't necessarily need a "true" center, but you need a guy (or a brilliant defensive scheme) who can guard a "true" center.  You don't need a guy whose traditional low-post offense is a key cog of your offense.  You probably need a big man who can stretch the floor more than you need a go-to post scorer.

[Future Celtics Owner]

You don't necessarily need a "true" center, but you need a guy (or a brilliant defensive scheme) who can guard a "true" center.  You don't need a guy whose traditional low-post offense is a key cog of your offense.  You probably need a big man who can stretch the floor more than you need a go-to post scorer.

I can agree with this. If you have the talent at other positions then having a defensive stud of a center is not so bad lol.

[CelticsFanFromNYC]

You don't necessarily need a "true" center, but you need a guy (or a brilliant defensive scheme) who can guard a "true" center.  You don't need a guy whose traditional low-post offense is a key cog of your offense.  You probably need a big man who can stretch the floor more than you need a go-to post scorer.

I can agree with this. If you have the talent at other positions then having a defensive stud of a center is not so bad lol.

With that being said, how will this matter correlate to the Cavs this year? I'm assuming when Lebrons on your team there tends to be numerous exceptions. I'd be honest and say I have only been following Love stat wise (fantasy) but, from what you guys speak of, Love is far from being considered a defensive presence. I did follow Verajao during the 1st Lebron-Cavs era.. I'm not sure if he still has playoff basketball in him. Personally, l doubt at this point he can contain Big Al or even Duncan if they reach the finals again.

[Celtics4ever]

Cousin's natural position is power forward since he has a more polished face-up and pick and roll game

He is at his best down low, his jumper is meh.

[D.o.s.]

Was Bynum there for both finals the lakers won? Or do people claim pau as a a center as well?

Glad you brought that up.

In 2008, when the Celts dismantled LA, Bynum was not playing.

However, in 2009 and 2010 when LA came back to win back to back 'ships, Bynum was playing and Gasol looked alot more comfortable and aggressive than he was in 2008 when KG absolutely manhandled him.

With two effective big guys like Bynum and Gasol and with us losing Perk, it's really no wonder we lost to LA in 2010 (and yes, I agree the officiating and Ray Allen's putrid offense didn't help.)

No love for Lamar Odom?

[gpap]

Was Bynum there for both finals the lakers won? Or do people claim pau as a a center as well?

Glad you brought that up.

In 2008, when the Celts dismantled LA, Bynum was not playing.

However, in 2009 and 2010 when LA came back to win back to back 'ships, Bynum was playing and Gasol looked alot more comfortable and aggressive than he was in 2008 when KG absolutely manhandled him.

With two effective big guys like Bynum and Gasol and with us losing Perk, it's really no wonder we lost to LA in 2010 (and yes, I agree the officiating and Ray Allen's putrid offense didn't help.)

No love for Lamar Odom?

Forgot about him

Another big that was very useful for the Lakers vs the C's in the '10 finals.