Author Topic: True center  (Read 20385 times)

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Re: True center
« Reply #45 on: September 17, 2014, 06:52:25 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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You got me,  Duncan, a center that proves my point is wrong.   ::) Splitter, who barely plays for SA? The same guy who was pretty much sat to win the title?

Convincing me that true centers are still valued is going ?o be hard if you are coming at me with the Spurs! They surely help my point more.

I never said a true center can't still help a team win,  i just don't think we NEED one and I don't want one!  There is a thread on this almost every other day.

Now,  I also didn't say Sully was good enough yet but he can be good enough in time!  Our perimeter defense has to be top notch and I believe we have the opportunity for that eventually. Again, he doesn't want to be a center so that's w/e.

If we do pick up a true center, it doesn't mean I think we can't win with him, I just think a PF masquerading as one is a better option with the way the NBA is leaning.



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Re: True center
« Reply #46 on: September 17, 2014, 07:15:03 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Sigh.  Sadly, the term, "True Center," has pretty much become an oxymoron.  I wish that that wasn't the case, though, if only because I love old school, traditional post players ;D  You can count the number of true centers in the league on one hand - Hibbert, Howard, Gasol (Marc), and Bynum (when he can play, that is).  I still view Duncan as a power forward playing the center position, but that's just me.  The same goes for Big Al and KG (when he was here).

Re: True center
« Reply #47 on: September 17, 2014, 07:38:01 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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Bismack is the dictionary definition of a one dimensional player. Zero interest here.
Actually, Reggie Evans is the definition of one-dimensional. Biuyombo is a rich man's RE, I guess...


Fair enough. When I wrote that I was thinking about all the posts that lament "all offense, no defense" types. Bismack is the opposite of that, in that he more or less turns every offensive possession into a 4 on 5... even more than Reggie Evans.

Kyle Wagner wrote a pretty good post on this phenomenon last season for Deadspin:
http://regressing.deadspin.com/the-nba-player-no-one-would-pass-to-1568943439

Quote
Bismack has three key deficiencies on offense: He cannot catch, or shoot, or dribble. These are serious problems, of course, but they are further compounded by the fact that, very often, he does not know where to stand, in the Andrea-Bargnani-on-defense, walking-around-in-circles-and-getting-yelled-at-by-teammates manner, and commits moving screen violations with enough frequency to rank with Jeremy Lin on turnover percentage.

Quote
As a scoring threat, Bismack did not have a very good season. He managed to score on only 50.9 percent of his putback attempts (in the bottom third of the league in efficiency). He posted up 15 times (in 77 games), and scored a total of seven points on those possessions (this is in the bottom fifth percentile in the league).

Biyombo does not shoot a hook shot so much as he extends his arm at some harsh angle and ejects the ball on what appears to be a downward trajectory, as though he were attempting one of those Blake Griffin Mozgovian throw-dunks, but from 10 feet, and sideways, while falling down. He shoots hook shots like an aircraft carrier dropping anchor

I agree 100% . But that does not mean that I do not want him here.

His block and rebound numbers per 36 are so high, and he is so young(just turned 22) that I will def take a ticket on him.
Also, many people said the same exact things about Deandre Jordan a couple years ago.

I'm glad you posted that article it does make a lot of sense and points out some important things. I just happen to believe that he will overcome those downfalls and in the meantime we can capitalize with a trade to get him based on his performance so far.

BTW I would not give a pick or anything super important...something like zeller 4 biz or something along those lines
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 07:43:04 PM by Future Celtics Owner »

Re: True center
« Reply #48 on: September 17, 2014, 07:58:00 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Our perimeter defense has to be top notch

I think we will be solid from 1-3 this year on D.   It's a contract year for Rondo and Green.  AB has always been good and MS will help at both 1 & 2.  Wallace is not a bad back up defender and Young has all the tools at 2 & 3 but will need seasoning.

If we have a good perimeter defense teams it is logical to assume teams will look at attack us at 4 & 5 where we are weaker.

Quote
Bismack

is 6'9" folks that is tweener height unless your name is Russell or Cowens.

Re: True center
« Reply #49 on: September 17, 2014, 08:26:47 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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Quote
Our perimeter defense has to be top notch

I think we will be solid from 1-3 this year on D.   It's a contract year for Rondo and Green.  AB has always been good and MS will help at both 1 & 2.  Wallace is not a bad back up defender and Young has all the tools at 2 & 3 but will need seasoning.

If we have a good perimeter defense teams it is logical to assume teams will look at attack us at 4 & 5 where we are weaker.

Quote
Bismack

is 6'9" folks that is tweener height unless your name is Russell or Cowens.

I agree they will try to attack our 4 and 5 but I don't think there are many 5s that are that offensively skilled who can carry their teams and the 4s who kill us are going to do it no matter who is on them b/c they are that good (Love and LMA). I think with time (I mean with growth not necessarily just next season), Sully/Kelly can defend solidly enough to not be too much of a negative and their offense and rebounding will be good enough to do damage against the opponent.

Oops, I forgot about everyone's new binky, Zeller, he can help us too and I think if he's committed he can be solid on defense against the bruisers, Sully and Kelly can take the lesser man.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 08:37:06 PM by ImShakHeIsShaq »
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Re: True center
« Reply #50 on: September 17, 2014, 09:49:01 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Quote
Our perimeter defense has to be top notch

I think we will be solid from 1-3 this year on D.   It's a contract year for Rondo and Green.  AB has always been good and MS will help at both 1 & 2.  Wallace is not a bad back up defender and Young has all the tools at 2 & 3 but will need seasoning.

If we have a good perimeter defense teams it is logical to assume teams will look at attack us at 4 & 5 where we are weaker.

Quote
Bismack

is 6'9" folks that is tweener height unless your name is Russell or Cowens.

Or Ben Wallace.

Re: True center
« Reply #51 on: September 18, 2014, 10:32:57 AM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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Quote
Our perimeter defense has to be top notch

I think we will be solid from 1-3 this year on D.   It's a contract year for Rondo and Green.  AB has always been good and MS will help at both 1 & 2.  Wallace is not a bad back up defender and Young has all the tools at 2 & 3 but will need seasoning.

If we have a good perimeter defense teams it is logical to assume teams will look at attack us at 4 & 5 where we are weaker.

Quote
Bismack

is 6'9" folks that is tweener height unless your name is Russell or Cowens.

Or Ben Wallace.
Length is an important concept folks(wink). Wingspan and standing reach are good measurements and Biz had 7'6.5'' wingspan and 9'3.5'' standing reach....so other center's are not going to be taking advantage of the 1-2 inch dif in height when playing Biz....maybe the other way around.

Re: True center
« Reply #52 on: September 18, 2014, 12:55:44 PM »

Offline gpap

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Maybe the Spurs were a bad example, but I absolutely refuse to believe that you no longer need a true center in the NBA to be successful.

You're not going to go very far if the tallest guy on your team is 6'8 or 6'9.

Re: True center
« Reply #53 on: September 18, 2014, 03:36:17 PM »

Offline gpap

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You got me,  Duncan, a center that proves my point is wrong.   ::) Splitter, who barely plays for SA? The same guy who was pretty much sat to win the title?

Convincing me that true centers are still valued is going ?o be hard if you are coming at me with the Spurs! They surely help my point more.

I never said a true center can't still help a team win,  i just don't think we NEED one and I don't want one!  There is a thread on this almost every other day.

Now,  I also didn't say Sully was good enough yet but he can be good enough in time!  Our perimeter defense has to be top notch and I believe we have the opportunity for that eventually. Again, he doesn't want to be a center so that's w/e.

If we do pick up a true center, it doesn't mean I think we can't win with him, I just think a PF masquerading as one is a better option with the way the NBA is leaning.

No center means your team is going to get destroyed in rebounding.

My philosophy is no center, no championship.

A power forward masquerading as a center is not going to accomplish anything.

Re: True center
« Reply #54 on: September 18, 2014, 03:41:00 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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... Unless you're San Antonio.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: True center
« Reply #55 on: September 18, 2014, 03:47:26 PM »

Offline gpap

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... Unless you're San Antonio.

Then how did San Antonio win the championship?

Re: True center
« Reply #56 on: September 18, 2014, 04:08:41 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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... Unless you're San Antonio.

Then how did San Antonio win the championship?

Voodoo.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: True center
« Reply #57 on: September 18, 2014, 04:15:53 PM »

Offline gpap

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... Unless you're San Antonio.

Then how did San Antonio win the championship?

Voodoo.

The same voodoo the Celts were using in 2008, which they called Ubuntu? (lol.)

Maybe when I mentioned San Antonio earlier in this thread as trying to state my case for why you NEED a legit center, I wasn't clear with what I was trying to state.

Like you mentioned, sure guys like Duncan, Splitter, Diaw technically aren't centers, they're power forwards.

BUT, from what I saw in the finals, they still outmuscled the Heat's big guys like Bosh, Birdman, Rashard Lewis, Battier, etc.

PLUS, the Heat didn't really have a legit center of their own to begin with (as all the guys that I just mentioned are also technically fowards.)

So, maybe the Spurs don't have your prototypical "big man" but their bigs still outplayed the Heat's bigs in the paint.

Granted, Parker, Ginobli, Danny Green and Leonard also contributed HUGE from outside the perimeter (and particularly Leonard's defense on Lebron.)

I guess what I am trying to say is there aren't many true centers in the league but the team with the more productive guys in the paint (that score, block, rebound, etc) is going to win.



Re: True center
« Reply #58 on: September 18, 2014, 04:17:38 PM »

Offline CelticsFanFromNYC

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Was Chris Anderson on the Heat the 1st year they won? if not I don't believe they had any legitimate centers

Re: True center
« Reply #59 on: September 18, 2014, 04:18:57 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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... Unless you're San Antonio.

Then how did San Antonio win the championship?

Voodoo.

The same voodoo the Celts were using in 2008, which they called Ubuntu? (lol.)

Maybe when I mentioned San Antonio earlier in this thread as trying to state my case for why you NEED a legit center, I wasn't clear with what I was trying to state.

Like you mentioned, sure guys like Duncan, Splitter, Diaw technically aren't centers, they're power forwards.

BUT, from what I saw in the finals, they still outmuscled the Heat's big guys like Bosh, Birdman, Rashard Lewis, Battier, etc.

PLUS, the Heat didn't really have a legit center of their own to begin with (as all the guys that I just mentioned are also technically fowards.)

So, maybe the Spurs don't have your prototypical "big man" but their bigs still outplayed the Heat's bigs in the paint.

Ok, so the hypothesis is now a team with players that play better than the players on the other team, that first team will win?

I can get behind that.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.