Author Topic: True center  (Read 20387 times)

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Re: True center
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2014, 09:18:22 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Pass! The NBA is moving away from "true centers" and I am too. I'll take a PF at C if he can defend well. I think it can be Sully but he obviously (per his dad really) doesn't want to be the C.

Oh well, a few more threads on a true center and it might convince DA to get one.

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Re: True center
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2014, 09:28:53 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I'll take a PF at C if he can defend well. I think it can be Sully but he obviously (per his dad really) doesn't want to be the C.

Unless you define pushing on guys as good defense that leaves him out of the conversation.  He does not move his feet well but is not bad at positional defense.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 09:48:06 AM by Celtics4ever »

Re: True center
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2014, 09:36:41 AM »

Offline gpap

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Pass! The NBA is moving away from "true centers" and I am too. I'll take a PF at C if he can defend well. I think it can be Sully but he obviously (per his dad really) doesn't want to be the C.

Oh well, a few more threads on a true center and it might convince DA to get one.

The San Antonio Spurs say hi.

Tim Duncan has secretly been playing center since David Robinson retired.

Don't forget about Splitter.

Re: True center
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2014, 10:23:13 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Pass! The NBA is moving away from "true centers" and I am too.
When people say that the NBA is moving away from "true centers", they actually mean that teams can no longer afford to field 300 lbs bruisers with no skill who are only able to push people around -- and count on sustained success.

That doesn't mean you can get away with a pudgy, earthbound 6'9 guy as your center -- most top teams in recent years have fielded a long, mobile and skilled player as their center.

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: True center
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2014, 10:39:21 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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Pass! The NBA is moving away from "true centers"
I think that's due more to a lack of big men that have traditional post scoring skills than a lack of tall guys available.  The only real low post scoring big men I can think of in the league are Duncan and Big Al.  Everyone is either a jumpshooting/high post scoring player or just an opportunistic scorer on offense (this is where I'd lump DH and Hibbert)

Re: True center
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2014, 10:40:26 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Pass! The NBA is moving away from "true centers" and I am too. I'll take a PF at C if he can defend well. I think it can be Sully but he obviously (per his dad really) doesn't want to be the C.

Oh well, a few more threads on a true center and it might convince DA to get one.

The San Antonio Spurs say hi.

Tim Duncan has secretly been playing center since David Robinson retired.

Don't forget about Splitter.

The dirty little secret about Splitter is that when the games start to matter the Spurs have pretty consistently gone to a lineup featuring Duncan at the 5 and Diaw at the 4. Which is part of the reason why he's never broken 25 MPG.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: True center
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2014, 02:43:55 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Pass! The NBA is moving away from "true centers"
I think that's due more to a lack of big men that have traditional post scoring skills than a lack of tall guys available.  The only real low post scoring big men I can think of in the league are Duncan and Big Al.  Everyone is either a jumpshooting/high post scoring player or just an opportunistic scorer on offense (this is where I'd lump DH and Hibbert)

Maybe big men who would have been traditional post scorers in the past are becoming jumpshooting/high post scoring players now because that skill set is more valuable.
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Re: True center
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2014, 03:15:01 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Pass! The NBA is moving away from "true centers"
I think that's due more to a lack of big men that have traditional post scoring skills than a lack of tall guys available.  The only real low post scoring big men I can think of in the league are Duncan and Big Al.  Everyone is either a jumpshooting/high post scoring player or just an opportunistic scorer on offense (this is where I'd lump DH and Hibbert)

Maybe big men who would have been traditional post scorers in the past are becoming jumpshooting/high post scoring players now because that skill set is more valuable.
that may be a possibility but I see that as limiting a player's ability.  having a Kareem, Mchale, Walton or Olajuwon in the post would be a major asset for any team.  Big Al made a huge difference for Charlotte and Duncan, even at this late stage of his career, offers a major offensive tool for the Spurs.

Re: True center
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2014, 03:23:12 PM »

Offline erisred

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Pass! The NBA is moving away from "true centers"
I think that's due more to a lack of big men that have traditional post scoring skills than a lack of tall guys available.  The only real low post scoring big men I can think of in the league are Duncan and Big Al.  Everyone is either a jumpshooting/high post scoring player or just an opportunistic scorer on offense (this is where I'd lump DH and Hibbert)

Maybe big men who would have been traditional post scorers in the past are becoming jumpshooting/high post scoring players now because that skill set is more valuable.
In this case, I'd say, the value of the skill set depends upon the percentage of makes, plus the percentage of second chance opportunities.

Post scorers that make 50% of their shots from the low post will score the same as if they make 33.3% of their shots from 3 pt land. But if missed low post shots are rebounded at a higher rate than missed 3 pt shots by the player/team, then they might need 36%, or more, to break even. 

Jabbar, Chamberline, McHale...all mostly low post players...averaged a little over 50% on their shots...mostly low post shots, but they are best of all time, hall of fame talents. Most C/PF's don't break 50% on inside shooting and if they can hit 3 pt shots in the low to mid 30%'s they might be better off shooting from outside.

Then there is Shaq! He averaged over 60% on all inside shooting over this entire career. His effectiveness with the low post shot matches or exceeds just about any 3 pt specialist in the history of the NBA, plus he had the rebounding and defense. 

Re: True center
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2014, 04:11:26 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Then there is Shaq! He averaged over 60% on all inside shooting over this entire career. His effectiveness with the low post shot matches or exceeds just about any 3 pt specialist in the history of the NBA, plus he had the rebounding and defense.

The rules changed so he could dunk it and bull over people with the no charge circle.  Some of it was to fight hack a shaq but in the year previous his points were in decline and this shot it right back up there. 

I would like to see what Wilt would have done with a no charge circle or some of these other guys.   They would shoot way better than Shaq, who quite frankly, could not shoot, given that he was a .53% free throw shooter.  I also, know he got the benefit of the doubt on tons on three second calls and camped out in the lane.  That being said he was a still a great player.

Re: True center
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2014, 04:16:20 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Pass! The NBA is moving away from "true centers"
I think that's due more to a lack of big men that have traditional post scoring skills than a lack of tall guys available.  The only real low post scoring big men I can think of in the league are Duncan and Big Al.  Everyone is either a jumpshooting/high post scoring player or just an opportunistic scorer on offense (this is where I'd lump DH and Hibbert)

Maybe big men who would have been traditional post scorers in the past are becoming jumpshooting/high post scoring players now because that skill set is more valuable.
In this case, I'd say, the value of the skill set depends upon the percentage of makes, plus the percentage of second chance opportunities.

Post scorers that make 50% of their shots from the low post will score the same as if they make 33.3% of their shots from 3 pt land. But if missed low post shots are rebounded at a higher rate than missed 3 pt shots by the player/team, then they might need 36%, or more, to break even. 

Jabbar, Chamberline, McHale...all mostly low post players...averaged a little over 50% on their shots...mostly low post shots, but they are best of all time, hall of fame talents. Most C/PF's don't break 50% on inside shooting and if they can hit 3 pt shots in the low to mid 30%'s they might be better off shooting from outside.

Then there is Shaq! He averaged over 60% on all inside shooting over this entire career. His effectiveness with the low post shot matches or exceeds just about any 3 pt specialist in the history of the NBA, plus he had the rebounding and defense.

  I'd be willing to bet that McHale and Kareem both averaged 60%+ on their inside shots. You'd also have to consider that having low post players generally leads to more offensive rebounds.

Re: True center
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2014, 05:01:56 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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Do a trade for Biz Biyombo...He can be Larry Sanders 2.0 but without the headaches
His per36 stats are very impressive. I'd like to see him get more minutes this year at Charlotte.
I would not....because then the price goes up. I don't see a situation where having Big Al, Zeller, Vonleh, Williams let Biz play more than he did last year. Hopefully we can do a small trade and get him here.

Does anyone know if we do trade for Biz can we extend his contract before the season. I'm asking because I am greedy and want a Larry Sanders/D Jordan type center on the cheap.Best case scenario is what I am asking.

Re: True center
« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2014, 05:08:18 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Bismack is the dictionary definition of a one dimensional player. Zero interest here.
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Re: True center
« Reply #43 on: September 17, 2014, 05:24:27 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Bismack is the dictionary definition of a one dimensional player. Zero interest here.
Actually, Reggie Evans is the definition of one-dimensional. Biuyombo is a rich man's RE, I guess...
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Re: True center
« Reply #44 on: September 17, 2014, 05:42:06 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Bismack is the dictionary definition of a one dimensional player. Zero interest here.
Actually, Reggie Evans is the definition of one-dimensional. Biuyombo is a rich man's RE, I guess...


Fair enough. When I wrote that I was thinking about all the posts that lament "all offense, no defense" types. Bismack is the opposite of that, in that he more or less turns every offensive possession into a 4 on 5... even more than Reggie Evans.

Kyle Wagner wrote a pretty good post on this phenomenon last season for Deadspin:
http://regressing.deadspin.com/the-nba-player-no-one-would-pass-to-1568943439

Quote
Bismack has three key deficiencies on offense: He cannot catch, or shoot, or dribble. These are serious problems, of course, but they are further compounded by the fact that, very often, he does not know where to stand, in the Andrea-Bargnani-on-defense, walking-around-in-circles-and-getting-yelled-at-by-teammates manner, and commits moving screen violations with enough frequency to rank with Jeremy Lin on turnover percentage.

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As a scoring threat, Bismack did not have a very good season. He managed to score on only 50.9 percent of his putback attempts (in the bottom third of the league in efficiency). He posted up 15 times (in 77 games), and scored a total of seven points on those possessions (this is in the bottom fifth percentile in the league).

Biyombo does not shoot a hook shot so much as he extends his arm at some harsh angle and ejects the ball on what appears to be a downward trajectory, as though he were attempting one of those Blake Griffin Mozgovian throw-dunks, but from 10 feet, and sideways, while falling down. He shoots hook shots like an aircraft carrier dropping anchor
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.