Poll: Celtics haven't drafted many good centers under Ainge. Why?

[LooseCannon]

What is the fascination with Asik?  He has virtually no skill aside from his height, and he's a horrible free throw shooter.  I don't care what the advanced metrics say in regards to him, he's grossly overrated on here, imo.

He's a significantly better free throw shooter than DeAndre Jordan, who I think is often overrated on here.  Jordan is a better shotblocker, but Asik is the better overall defender (and probably the better rebounder).

[Rondo9]

Deandre Jordan improved tremendously though.

[LooseCannon]

Jordan is still a 42.5% career free throw shooter  (42.8% last season) who seems more likely to shoot under 40% than over 50%.  That makes Asik's 54.4% career mark (61.9% last season) look godly by comparison.  At least Jordan is better than Andre Drummond at free throws.

[Rondo9]

I meant as a overall player this year.

[obnoxiousmime]

criminey...cb is back at it again. "ainge is bad at drafting players" has given birth to yet another thread has it?

how many times do we need to revisit this topic and how many times do we need to demonstrate that ainge is clearly one of better GMs at drafting talent. no one says he is perfect. but we do know that compared to other GMs he does very well.

the key is not to isolate only on the players "missed." take into account the needs, other GM moves, the late drafting position of the celtics, and general expectations/scouting reports.

ainge has delivered more nba players given the celtics' draft positions than virtually any other nba GM.

ainge's drafting is a strength.

My original intent was just to provoke discussion. I may not even agree that Ainge is weaker at drafting big men, but I wanted to look into the topic at more depth. After going through each draft I think that though he didn't miss out on a lot of good big men, he also didn't necessarily put the position at a high priority. One of the issues in my opinion is that he doesn't seem to value international players -- a lot of "value" picks have been international big men in the late first and second round. This is probably due to buyout concerns, the increased difficulty in scouting foreign talent, and a possible bias against international players for God knows what reason.

And to those saying the game has changed and you don't need big men, I would say the good teams still have some kind of traditional big man defensive presence. Maybe the Heat can do it (though Bosh's D is underrated) but that team was really rare in their athletic superiority starting with LeBron at the 4.

[SHAQATTACK]

I think a previous poster hit on what OP was curious about,  seems given the choices DA must make as he doesn't get the chances to draft Drummonds etc..or obvious center talent...

So DA doesn't do the crap shoots with the Gasol level Big that often on draft day. Dipping into the second and third level talent pools at draft day for bigs is not his gig.   Fab Melo was disaster ...but at the time I thought maybe it was a good pick as well.....oh well

Danny seems better at identifying guards with potential .

I think his strategy is draft forwards and guards and trade for KNOWN quality Centers .

[pearljammer10]

He drafted two. 


How many good C have there been drafted after he drafted?  How many of those C were the better prospect then he picked? 

What was the team's need or direction at that point?

The first example that comes to mind was skipping DeAndre Jordan for J.R. Giddens.

Of course it looks bad in hindsight but who knows, in a parallel universe Giddens could be dropping 23 points a game with 6 rebounds and Deandre Jordan could still be learning how to shoot free throws at the Young Men's Christian Association.

[MBunge]

Deandre Jordan improved tremendously though.

Jordan was taken in the 2nd round.  That means NO ONE in the NBA really thought he would turn into a very good player.  If a guy his size lasts until then, it means everybody has serious doubts about him.

I don't think you can blame Ainge or any GM for missing on guys in the 2nd round.  To me, GM's pass or fail on trades, cap management and first round picks.  Getting lucky in the 2nd round is just gravy.

Ainge has really only seriously blown 2 draft moves.  Nabbing Marcus Banks when David West, Luke Ridnour and Boris Diaw were still available and, of course, Fab Melo.

Mike

[Clench123]

Did Ainge ever admitted to make a mistake in trading Perkins?

Why admit something that isn't true?

I believe that group was capable of winning another title.  A bit of adjustment and addition like Spurs did would've done wonders for us.  You may point to Perkins regression in OKC as a justification but I'm a believer that that move was responsible for that.  It also affected everyone else on the team that season and beyond.  It was a glaring mistake.  What exactly did we got in return?  Uncle snooze.  How has that worked out for us?

[Beat LA]

What is the fascination with Asik?  He has virtually no skill aside from his height, and he's a horrible free throw shooter.  I don't care what the advanced metrics say in regards to him, he's grossly overrated on here, imo.

He's a significantly better free throw shooter than DeAndre Jordan, who I think is often overrated on here.  Jordan is a better shotblocker, but Asik is the better overall defender (and probably the better rebounder).

True, although that really isn't saying that much, haha .  My whole thing with Jordan is that, at the very least, he would have given us a huge boost athletically, especially when compared to both Perk and Asik, and speed, which, with Doc's steadfast refusal to ever change their half court offense, would have made a big difference against guys like Bynum, Gasol, Shaq, Big Z, and even Dwight Howard, because instead of jogging back when covering Perkins, they would have had to almost constantly sprint, which might have taken something out of them on both ends by the end of the game, imo; and dat wingspan, doe   Sigh. 

You also can't deny that Jordan had a great year last season, and imo, he's a better rebounder and defender than Asik, but it's okay to disagree.  I was shocked to discover in looking over the box scores of his rookie campaign that he actually had a 20 rebound game that first year, which must have certainly come as a shock.  It would have been fun seeing him run the floor with Rondo, as well.  Sigh.  Who won the defensive player of the year award this year?  He had to be in the top 3 for voting. 

[Beat LA]

Did Ainge ever admitted to make a mistake in trading Perkins?

Why admit something that isn't true?

I believe that group was capable of winning another title.  A bit of adjustment and addition like Spurs did would've done wonders for us.  You may point to Perkins regression in OKC as a justification but I'm a believer that that move was responsible for that.  It also affected everyone else on the team that season and beyond.  It was a glaring mistake.  What exactly did we got in return?  Uncle snooze.  How has that worked out for us?

Even though the loss of Perk obviously hurt our interior defense, I think that his "toughness" could have been replaced had we signed Leon Powe, who had been bought out and wanted to return to Boston, but again, nothing.  Morris Peterson was also released by Charlotte.  Why didn't we look into him, especially after Marquis went down?

[Celtics4ever]

Did Ainge ever admitted to make a mistake in trading Perkins?

He got hurt again after the trade and cashing in.  it hurt our interior d but I think it was timed right.   He got hurt again in OKC and had a bigger contract that would not have been good for the C's.

[mmmmm]

I think a previous poster hit on what OP was curious about,  seems given the choices DA must make as he doesn't get the chances to draft Drummonds etc..or obvious center talent...

So DA doesn't do the crap shoots with the Gasol level Big that often on draft day. Dipping into the second and third level talent pools at draft day for bigs is not his gig.   Fab Melo was disaster ...but at the time I thought maybe it was a good pick as well.....oh well

I agree with your general points here, but who did we skip that was obviously a better choice than Fab Melo at the time?   No other big man taken after him has really done anything.

So I don't really see that as a disaster. 

It was a #22 pick.  The draft is pretty much a gamble after #15.

I see the Melo pick as simply a high risk/upside gamble to go along with the gamble he took on Sullinger right before him.   Both picks had high risk and both had high upside.  One of them seems to have panned out and the other didn't.

[BballTim]

He drafted two. 


How many good C have there been drafted after he drafted?  How many of those C were the better prospect then he picked? 

What was the team's need or direction at that point?

The first example that comes to mind was skipping DeAndre Jordan for J.R. Giddens.

It was a terrible pick. 


But what was the Celtics needs that offseason?

He also passed right over Omer Asik

What is the fascination with Asik?  He has virtually no skill aside from his height, and he's a horrible free throw shooter.  I don't care what the advanced metrics say in regards to him, he's grossly overrated on here, imo.

  Defense is a skill. So is rebounding.

[BballTim]

Since Ainge began drafting in 2004, the Celtics have missed out on:

Varajao-took Al Jefferson, which netted us KG. glad we missed out on him
David Lee- Not a Center. Bad draft though (gerald green)
Blatche- headcase, though we shouldve picked anyone other than Green
Gortat-clear miss, tbf a lot of teams did and hes an international player. Ainge should hire better international scouts.
Hawes-Drafted Jeff Green (traded for Ray) again, glad we missed out
Marc Gasol-see above
Noah-see Hawes
Pekovic-clear miss, one of Ainge's worst draft year
Asik-see above, ill add Jordan to this list
Miles Plumlee-shouldve been taken instead of The Fabolous Melo
Dieng-took Olynyk, jury is out (although I wouldntve taken Dieng and took the Greek Freak instead)
Nurkic-took smart, nurkic would be a reach there and was picked before their next pick
McGary-Early to tell if hes a better pick than James Young

From Above the only clear misses Ainge had was the year he drafted Giddens, Fab Melo. and Gerald Green. Draft is a crapshoot, and the only draft where you can say at that time that Ainge shouldve drafted a big was in the Giddens draft (Asik Jordan Pekovic). The Rationale though was we were set in bigs at that time (Perk, KG, Powe, Big Baby were healthy) and we had to replace James Posey. We didnt know at that time that Perk, KG, and Powe would have career altering injuries.

The draft is not a crap-shoot.  There are always talented players available.  Always.  Even in 2013  

Now, you may be right about Perk, but I seem to recall the bone spurs in KG's knee being discovered prior to the 08-09 season, and Powe, like Bill Walton, was, unfortunately, a ticking time bomb with those knees.  We also shouldn't have had to replace Posey - we should have resigned him.  Period.  I don't care if it was for 4 years or not.

 The draft is a crap shoot. And Posey wasn't anywhere close to worth that deal. Danny was smart to pass on it.